• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The FBI Recovered 11 Sets Of Classified Documents, Including Some Marked Top Secret, From Mar-a-Lago

BlueTex said:
(c) Joint determination on atomic weapons; Presidential determination on disagreement
In the case of Restricted Data which the Commission and the Department of Defense jointly determine to relate primarily to the military utilization of atomic weapons, the determination that such data may be published without constituting an unreasonable risk to the common defense and security shall be made by the Commission and the Department of Defense jointly, and if the Commission and the Department of Defense do not agree, the determination shall be made by the President.

42 U.S. Code § 2162 - Classification and declassification of Restricted Data

www.law.cornell.edu

This STATUTE places responsibility for declassifying restricted data on the NRC and DOD. Only if they don't agree does the president make the determination. It DOES NOT say the president can declassify unilaterally.
Click to expand...

Which has already been noted to be under the executive branch, which the President is in charge.
 
Democrats are more than justified in Schadenfreude if trump is punished for crimes with classified information given his history of exploiting the issue falsely with Hillary, the irony of his "LOCK HER UP" chanting.
 
Somebody needs to research and start a thread about top secret versus the other classification. I think it's tscli or something like that.

You need to verify if those are the documents that can only be read in certain rooms within certain government buildings.
 
Bodecea said:
But there would be a paper trail.
Click to expand...
As usual, trump stresses, challenges, breaks processes by abusing them in ways not planned for. Same thing happened with the possibility that while in office he wrote a 'secret pardon' for himself or others 'just in case' that would presumably be legal (for others) but problematic.
 
cpwill said:
When President, Trump had the authority to do what he liked with those documents. That means he was free to be reckless and stupid with them, and declassify them as he pleased. If he took them after he was President, then that's a clear violation.

I was Never Trump before there was a name for it, and stuck to that - supported both impeachments. However, any criminal charges against a former president need to be clear, and clearly not partisan.
Click to expand...
The president can declassify as he wishes, but Trump did not do this.
 
Bodecea said:
Not by just saying he declassifies them....there is a process with documentation. You've never been around classified material, have you?
Click to expand...
He used to read the classified section in the newspaper, is that close enough?
 
cpwill said:
That, in fact, is precisely what got Hillary off the hook for the vast preponderance of the classified information on her email server. It was State Department data, and she was the OCA, just as POTUS is.
Click to expand...
I don't recall Hillary claiming she had declassified the documents. Though I will grant you that if this is going to sink Donnie's political future any hope that Hillary has goes down the tubes with it. Good riddance to both of them.

The end of the entire Hillary email mess was a conclusion that she and her staff were wildly careless in their handling of classified information. There were two elements to the Hillary fiasco when all was said and done. There was this voluminous number of email communications kept on her private server. That was a massive number of communications. All of that was outside the bounds of government practice as was the same practice by Jarrod Kushner and Ivanka Trump. Then there was then a rather small number of emails where the conclusion was reached that they contained classified material. Given that each tranche of material identified as "Miscellaneous Secret or Top Secret or beyond top secret or confidential documents likely represents tens of if not hundreds of documents per category, Trump has much more classified stuff in his basement than Clinton ever thought of having on her server before during or after her term as Secretary of State.

So the three things that make Hillary's mess a false equivalency to the Trump documents mess are that:
- Trump claims to have declassified the material. There is so far no evidence that he did. The entries on the receipt do not identify the documents taken by FBI as declassified. Hillary never claimed to declassify the material. Could Trump have declassified some of them and not told anybody....YUP. Donald is capable of literally anything that he thinks results in some advantage to him personally
- Trump had a legal subpoena earlier this year after he sent back the 15 cartons and material and he resisted it. Hillary did not resist subpoenas. However IMO she did erroneously identify the nature of the issues at hand for her and her staff and I am being generous in that regard. She might have been on the hook for USC 1924.
- the preponderance of the evidence does not suggest that Trump and his crew were wildly careless but purposefully took the stuff and did not return it possibly violating 18 USC 2071, USC 793 and USC 1519 in the process. 1519 might be the easiest one to prove if DOJ wants to move to Indict. That said we do not know who, Trump or underlings are most at risk regarding Indictment.

At the end of the day the difference is the difference between the totally unscrupulous, self-absorbed, narcissistic and vapid man, Donald Trump and Hillary's hubris which was always her political undoing and the usual coverup being worse than the crime. Hillary was far less dangerous to this country's National Security than Donald was by a country mile. They are both dead to me politically.
 
Mach said:
They do seem to be bumping against the bottom. Shouting for civil war, "lock and load", etc....basically expressing their desire to commit violence against Democrats to further their political goals.
Where do they go from there? I mean, that's got to be close to bottom.
They even updated their GOP platform to basically remove all policy/legislative stuff, and the concluding remarks are that they think Democrats are evil and only GOP is "standing in the breach".

They can cry wolf only for so long....so we hope.
Click to expand...
It's a bit like a war of attrition. As the cult leader's power gradually decreases, in part due to multiple legal issues, the cult fringes drift back to their former life of apathy. The cult still cries wolf, but the cry is increasingly weak as more and more cultist fade away. Ultimately, they lose the war.
 
Deuce said:
The president can declassify as he wishes, but Trump did not do this.
Click to expand...
That's the problem. The person who we would have to depend on to tell us that, is Trump.
 
Geoist said:
What was Trump's excuse for not making the search warrant public?

Garland has his excuse: he couldn't reveal without court approval.



Shit gets leaked. That is the way of the world. You would know this if you paid attention at all to how the Trump Administration operated for 4 years.
Click to expand...
finance.yahoo.com

AG Garland was "very angry" during Trump case comments, fmr. U.S. attorney says

Attorney General Merrick Garland spoke to the public today for the first time since the FBI conducted a search at former President Trump’s home in Mar-A-Lago. Former U.S. Attorney and NBC News legal analyst Carol Lam and NBC News Justice reporter Ryan Reilly points out how Garland was “very...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com

Garland was “very angry” as he defended the Department of Justice from attacks on its integrity.
Click to expand...

How dare people challenge the integrity of his rumor mill leakers.
 
Deuce said:
The president can declassify as he wishes, but Trump did not do this.
Click to expand...
Simply amazing, isn't it? It's really this simple.

If Trump had declassified the documents, we'd be able to read them now. Obviously, the documents are still classified.
 
jnug said:
For some of the crimes Donald may well have committed here yes. For others NO. They won't have to prove intent. its a matter of what DOJ charges if anything.

As usual Donald deals in wholesale crimes. Nothing retail about Donnie's criminality. There are so many statutes at play now in this documents mess and so many levels of criminality available within the statutes that it will take awhile just to unsnarl that mess.

And for those that wondered aloud why Donnie was not charged the day after the search warrant was executed......NOW YOU HAVE PART OF YOUR ANSWER.
Click to expand...
Are you saying Garland is lying about his dedication to equal application of the law? Are you calling our AG a liar? Questioning his or the people in his dept angers him.
 
trouble13 said:
finance.yahoo.com

AG Garland was "very angry" during Trump case comments, fmr. U.S. attorney says

Attorney General Merrick Garland spoke to the public today for the first time since the FBI conducted a search at former President Trump’s home in Mar-A-Lago. Former U.S. Attorney and NBC News legal analyst Carol Lam and NBC News Justice reporter Ryan Reilly points out how Garland was “very...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com



How dare people challenge the integrity of his rumor mill leakers.
Click to expand...

How the hell is this any kind of response to my post? Of course Garland was angry, his FBI agents and their families are the targets of death threats.
 
Geoist said:
How the hell is this any kind of response to my post? Of course Garland was angry, his FBI agents and their families are the targets of death threats.
Click to expand...
My post was in response to this portion of your post.

"Shit gets leaked. That is the way of the world. You would know this if you paid attention at all to how the Trump Administration operated for 4 years."
 
trouble13 said:
My post was in response to this portion of your post.

"Shit gets leaked. That is the way of the world. You would know this if you paid attention at all to how the Trump Administration operated for 4 years."
Click to expand...

MAGAts aren't upset about leaks in this case. They're upset Dear Leader's resort got searched and that he's the target of an investigation.
 
Why did MTG feel the need to make it a public announcement ?


Could she not just file the article of impeachment….with her mind?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom