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The differing interests of the Socioeconomic classes

Ryan5

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Class discussion and dissection. It never stops fascinating me as the ultimate truth in understanding the world we live in and why it is the way it is.





Upper class:

-Concerned about Security

-Concerned about the quality of the Security

-Concerned about Lawyers and other professionals outsmarting their less than worthy childrens future inheritances (Let's face it, just because dad's a capitalist doesn't mean you are)

-Concerned about instilling in their children fiscal responsibility to manage their future inheritance properly (Few do, demonstrating again the upper class hatred of rising professionals. Going to whittle away my son/daughters wealth? Probably, Yes.)
 

Aunt Spiker

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Class discussion and dissection. It never stops fascinating me as the ultimate truth in understanding the world we live in and why it is the way it is.





Upper class:

-Concerned about Security

-Concerned about the quality of the Security

-Concerned about Lawyers and other professionals outsmarting their less than worthy childrens future inheritances (Let's face it, just because dad's a capitalist doesn't mean you are)

-Concerned about instilling in their children fiscal responsibility to manage their future inheritance properly (Few do, demonstrating again the upper class hatred of rising professionals. Going to whittle away my son/daughters wealth? Probably, Yes.)
Well - you could have started a real discussion, but instead you opted for the jump-to-conclusions approach and are trying to make those who apparently opted for a career which required extensive education look like they're foul individuals with horrendous motives.

Yet, that group being populated with doctors, lawyers, and other much-relied on individuals in society: you still need them.
 

Fisher

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A good rule of thumb is that for most people traditional college costs about twice what the actual costs paid to the school were because of the lost earning while most people were in college instead of working full-time.
 

Ryan5

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Well - you could have started a real discussion, but instead you opted for the jump-to-conclusions approach and are trying to make those who apparently opted for a career which required extensive education look like they're foul individuals with horrendous motives.

Yet, that group being populated with doctors, lawyers, and other much-relied on individuals in society: you still need them.

What on earth are you spewing from your brain?


Lawyers, Doctors and other professionals are not even the upper class. They are Upper Middle class.


Don't come into a thread ignorant.


I was merely pointing out that upper class people tend to dislike lawyers and lawsuits because they know their children aren't capable of managing their inheritances. Lawyers are not of the upper class.


Get your classes and basic understandings correct.
 

Moot

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What makes a politician upper class? Cuz, there's a lot of politicians I consider to be bottom of the barrel. Is it their wealth or their college degree.......or who they know? Because it sure isn't their intelligence.
 

Paschendale

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Anyone who cares about inheritance and not making their rent or mortgage, or paying their bills... that person lives an entirely different life from the rest (majority) of this country.

Also, what's the point of labeling social classes? We already know this. What's the discussion here? I already knew that I wasn't upper class, and that being a lawyer with a graduate degree isn't going to change that.
 

Ryan5

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What makes a politician upper class? Cuz, there's a lot of politicians I consider to be bottom of the barrel. Is it their wealth or their college degree.......or who they know? Because it sure isn't their intelligence.

That's their place in the class system. What you "consider" means nothing. The class system doesn't care what you "consider".

Yes. It is wealth mixed with social standing.
 

Ryan5

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Anyone who cares about inheritance and not making their rent or mortgage, or paying their bills... that person lives an entirely different life from the rest (majority) of this country.

Also, what's the point of labeling social classes? We already know this. What's the discussion here? I already knew that I wasn't upper class, and that being a lawyer with a graduate degree isn't going to change that.


I don't think at all that most people understand that a lawyer is not upper class. A lot of people think a lawyer is some rich person. 75-100k a year is not rich and certainly not upper class.


So I think these kind of threads are good to dispel those inaccuracies.
 

Goshin

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Well, I thought this thread might be interesting.


Oh well. :inandout:
 

thinkforyoursel

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it's very difficult to use those numbers.

In America there are many 50+ year olds in some Industries making $80 because they worked some 20+ years at some job and never left. They are barely educated beyond high school but after 20 years ...they know to do a few things good at their company. For these people ..if they get let go their lives change drastically because realistically they have no qualification beyond that one job.

A doctor making under $100K/year ...is poor. If he lives in a major urban area ...he's really poor.

If you're in your 20's ...no college loans ...no kids or wife to support ....$50K ...in some region of the country may place you in the middle class.
But dude ...$50K/year in NY/NJ for example ...no matter what your situation is ......is not middle class!!

$32K a year ...is middle class where? Who breaks out the bubbly feeling like ...THEY'VE ARRIVED ...making $32K/yr? :lamo
 

Neomalthusian

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What on earth are you spewing from your brain?

Lawyers, Doctors and other professionals are not even the upper class. They are Upper Middle class.
Because you arbitrarily say so? Your own graphic puts the blue (upper class) layer at $200,000 and describes them as "CEOs and politicians." Yet probably hundreds of thousands of doctors, lawyers, engineers, superintendents, tenured professors, business executives, accountants, health facility administrators, superintendents, upper level government department directors, small to medium sized business owners, etc. etc., earn at least that much. It's not just corporate CEOs and politicians making that ballpark. Maybe you simply chose an ill-conceived graphic as a discussion starter?

Don't come into a thread ignorant.
So far it appears the thread was created from ignorance. Aunt Spiker was spot on in her response.

I was merely pointing out that upper class people tend to dislike lawyers and lawsuits because they know their children aren't capable of managing their inheritances. Lawyers are not of the upper class.
And yet you've provided nothing whatsoever, outside of your own juvenile opinion, to support this claim. And further, according to your own silly little graphic, you're easily wrong. There are thousands upon thousands of partners in law firms all over the country making well over the upper limit of your graphic.

Further, you've provided nothing to support your original claim that people teach their children fiscal responsibility only in order to protect their inheritances. Perhaps no, perhaps they want to instill fiscal responsibility because that's the intelligent thing to do. Ever consider that?

Are you implying that upper middle, middle, and working class people do not want to instill fiscal responsibility in their children? Why would THAT be?

Get your classes and basic understandings correct.
What?

You better hone your game quickly if you want to hold your own around here chap. Even moderates like Aunt Spiker will eviscerate you for such foolishness.
 
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Goshin

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it's very difficult to use those numbers.

In America there are many 50+ year olds in some Industries making $80 because they worked some 20+ years at some job and never left. They are barely educated beyond high school but after 20 years ...they know to do a few things good at their company. For these people ..if they get let go their lives change drastically because realistically they have no qualification beyond that one job.

A doctor making under $100K/year ...is poor. If he lives in a major urban area ...he's really poor.

If you're in your 20's ...no college loans ...no kids or wife to support ....$50K ...in some region of the country may place you in the middle class.
But dude ...$50K/year in NY/NJ for example ...no matter what your situation is ......is not middle class!!

$32K a year ...is middle class where? Who breaks out the bubbly feeling like ...THEY'VE ARRIVED ...making $32K/yr? :lamo


I recognize those numbers... they were from when I graduated HS in the 80's..... methinks a data update is in order....
 

Ryan5

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Because you arbitrarily say so? Your own graphic puts the blue (upper class) layer at $200,000 and describes them as "CEOs and politicians." Yet probably hundreds of thousands of doctors, lawyers, engineers, superintendents, tenured professors, business executives, accountants, health facility administrators, superintendents, upper level government department directors, small to medium sized business owners, etc. etc., earn at least that much. It's not just corporate CEOs and politicians making that ballpark. Maybe you simply chose an ill-conceived graphic as a discussion starter?



So far it appears the thread was created from ignorance. Aunt Spiker was spot on in her response.



And yet you've provided nothing whatsoever, outside of your own juvenile opinion, to support this claim. And further, according to your own silly little graphic, you're easily wrong. There are thousands upon thousands of partners in law firms all over the country making well over the upper limit of your graphic.

Further, you've provided nothing to support your original claim that people teach their children fiscal responsibility only in order to protect their inheritances. Perhaps no, perhaps they want to instill fiscal responsibility because that's the intelligent thing to do. Ever consider that?

Are you implying that upper middle, middle, and working class people do not want to instill fiscal responsibility in their children? Why would THAT be?



What?

You better hone your game quickly if you want to hold your own around here chap. Even moderates like Aunt Spiker will eviscerate you for such foolishness.

It's a generalization graph.


And my statements are accurate.


"Upper Class" is the top class. It isn't anyone making 200-400k a year, so yes, the graph is probably somewhat misleading in that respect but I believe any smart individual grasps that, I'm not sure what that says about you. 200-400k is not upper class, that is upper middle class still thanks to the upper class being so extreme. So my statements are accurate. Nobody earning 300k a year is going to go around any truly wealthy area proclaiming they're upper class or anything of the such. We aren't talking about Romania's class scale here, we're talking about the US class scale. 300k a year in the US is not anywhere near the top class. It is merely at the high end of the middle upper class in US society.



And I enjoy discussing upper class (you earn over 750,000 a year) children falling by the wayside. I don't agree with you at all. Most upper class children aren't actually very good with their inheritances which allows rising professionals to whittle their parents fortunes away because, frankly, that's really not their money anyways. They didn't earn it, so no wonder they don't truly know how to make it function out in the real world to where it can benefit them. They end up losing it to smarter people but therein lies just another aspect of capitalism, all wealth eventually is repatriated to new, more cunning individuals and the decaying, decadent offspring of the upper class get knocked down to the class they truly belonged in after their father passed away. So in this sense the capitalist system does actually in a very broad sense redistribute the wealth, it simply doesn't happen willingly. You don't need Socialists to redistribute the wealth in this sense because market forces are constantly doing this.



And no I'm implying most middle and lower class people will not instill these values in their children. They can't for so many reasons. Education, lack of anything to save, the list goes on. That said, some obviously do and those move on to eventually usurp the decadent generational wealthy offspring that no longer have those values. There are plenty of upper and middle upper class drug users, gamblers, addicts of all sorts that will lose their fathers wealth. In that sense it is a regenerating system.
 
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Neomalthusian

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"Upper Class" is the top class. It isn't anyone making 200-400k a year, so yes, the graph is probably somewhat misleading in that respect but I believe any smart individual grasps that, I'm not sure what that says about you.
I was the one that told you it was misleading.

300k a year in the US is not anywhere near the top class. It is merely at the high end of the middle upper class in US society.
:shrug: Ok, if you say so.

Most upper class children aren't actually very good with their inheritances which allows rising professionals to whittle their parents fortunes away
Most? Can you cite any evidence for this, or did you just make it up off the top of your head?

They end up losing it to smarter people but therein lies just another aspect of capitalism, all wealth eventually is repatriated to new, more cunning individuals and the decaying, decadent offspring of the upper class get knocked down to the class they truly belonged in after their father passed away.
Can you cite any evidence for this, or did you just make it up off the top of your head?

And no I'm implying most middle and lower class people will not instill these values in their children. They can't for so many reasons. Education, lack of anything to save, the list goes on.
None of those are reasons why anyone would not be able to instill a virtue of fiscal responsibility. You don't need to make a certain amount of money to teach and model fiscally responsible concepts.
 

Ryan5

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Most? Can you cite any evidence for this, or did you just make it up off the top of your head?

.

Yes. Jeb Bush is upper class and yet his children have fallen by the wayside.


I will provide evidence. His childrens saga with drugs and arrests is typical of many upper class children.








USATODAY.com - Jeb Bush's daughter charged with prescription fraud

Jeb Bush's daughter charged/Jailed with prescription fraud

By Deborah Sharp, USA TODAY


Tallahassee police via Reuters
Florida Gov. Jeb Bush's daughter, Noelle Bush, after her arrest early Tuesday.

The daughter of Florida Gov. Jeb Bush was arrested Tuesday in Tallahassee on charges of trying to fill a fake prescription for the popular tranquilizer Xanax.

Bush and his wife, Columba, issued a statement that they were "deeply saddened" by the incident involving their middle child and only daughter, Noelle, 24.

They asked the media and the public to respect their privacy "during this difficult time so that we can help our daughter."

A Walgreens pharmacist suspicious about a call-in prescription notified police at 1:15 a.m. when Noelle Bush showed up at the drugstore's drive-through in her white Volkswagen to pick it up.

She was charged with prescription fraud, a felony that carries a maximum penalty of five years in jail and a $5,000 fine. Noelle Bush has no known criminal record and was released without having to post bond.

Experts say punishment for a first offense is usually drug treatment or probation.

Noelle Bush has been cited for about a dozen traffic violations and was involved in three automobile crashes since 1995, according to The Associated Press.

Xanax is legally prescribed for stress and anxiety. Noelle Bush reportedly told police that she was panicked about starting a new job on Tuesday.

Jeb Bush had said previously that one of his three children used illegal drugs during his first failed campaign for Florida governor in 1994. That episode prompted Jeb and Columba Bush to get involved in several drug-prevention groups, and Jeb Bush appointed a state drug czar after he was elected governor in 1998.

Police believe Noelle Bush called the pharmacy's voice mail system to issue herself the prescription, posing as a "Dr. Noelle Scidmore."

Police impounded the phone messages. The pharmacist told police that Bush called twice as Scidmore and twice as herself asking if the prescription was ready. The calls initially made him suspicious because the first call from "Scidmore" failed to specify the quantity of pills. The pharmacist called a colleague of the real Dr. Scidmore, who told him the doctor no longer practiced in Tallahassee. He "said it was a fake and to bust her," pharmacist Carlos Zimmerman told police.

In addition, the telephone number originally left as a call-back number turned out to be a second line at Noelle Bush's home, according to the police report.

She lives in Tallahassee, where she attended Florida State University last year but is not currently enrolled. She studied art and graduated from Tallahassee Community College in 2000.

The arrest echoed similar high-profile family struggles, from the recent marijuana abuse by England's Prince Harry to underage drinking by President Bush's twin daughters. In May, Jenna Bush was charged with using a fake ID to try to buy a margarita, and her sister Barbara was charged with underage drinking.

The twins performed community service, attended alcohol-awareness classes and paid $100 fines. The charges were dropped. A second drinking episode for Jenna Bush brought a $500 fine and a license suspension.

Illegal use of the sedative Xanax is popular among some young people, particularly in combination with the party drug Ecstasy. It can help prolong an Ecstasy high or soften the crash that often follows. The practice is known as "parachuting" among users, says Joe Kilmer, spokesman for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration in Miami.

"I wouldn't say it's a 'hot drug,' but it is a drug we see with some regularity on the club scene," Kilmer says.

A survey by the federal Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found illicit use of Xanax-like drugs is more popular among young people than other groups: Only 2% of the general population reported misusing such prescription drugs, but 4% of those ages 18-25 did.


Florida Gov. Jeb Bush's son arrested - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News




AUSTIN, Texas — The youngest son of Florida Gov. Jeb Bush was arrested early Friday and charged with public intoxication and resisting arrest, law enforcement officials said.
John Ellis Bush, 21, was arrested by agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission at 2:30 a.m. on a corner of Austin’s Sixth Street bar district, said commission spokesman Roger Wade.
The nephew of President Bush was released on $2,500 bond for the resisting arrest charge, and on a personal recognizance bond for the public intoxication charge, officials said.
Wade said he had no further details about the charges.
Gov. Bush and his wife Columba appeared Friday evening at a museum reception in Miami.
“My son’s doing fine. It’s a private matter. We will support him. We’re sad for him. But I’m not going to discuss it on the public square with 30 cameras,” the governor told reporters.
It’s not the first time Florida’s first family has experienced legal problems with one of their children.
Noelle Bush, the governor’s daughter, was arrested in January 2002 and accused of trying to pass a fraudulent prescription at a pharmacy to obtain the anti-anxiety drug Xanax. She completed a drug rehabilitation program in August 2003 and a judge dismissed the drug charges against her.
 
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