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The death penalty is racist

millsy

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millsy said:
One of the most important factors in whether or not someone gets sentenced to die is the colour of his skin, and the colour of his victims skin.

"The odds of receiving a death sentence are nearly four times (3.9) higher if the defendant is black"

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=5&did=184

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=45&did=539



How can this type of blatant racism still be allowed to exist?

Colored people commit more of the harsher crimes than non-colored people do. That's all it's saying.
 

millsy

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Actually they controlled for things such as type of crime. What they're saying is for a given sample of equal crimes the DA is more likely to pursue the death penalty if the defendant is Black.
 

zymurgy

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Individual application of the law very well might be linked to race. That doesn't mean the law itself is racist as you claim in the thread title.
 

millsy

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zymurgy said:
Individual application of the law very well might be linked to race. That doesn't mean the law itself is racist as you claim in the thread title.

You're absolutely right. With any law there is two parts to it; how it is written, and how it is enforced. And without a doubt in this case it is the enforcment (and that's a tricky word here, because it isn't the law enforcement - police- it's the DA's office) of the law that is racist. However, when the end result is what it currently is, I believe that "the death penalty is racist" is not a misleading statement.
 

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I cant get your links to work but did you also look at the states where the data came from?

States with more blacks will have higher black crime rates.
 

zymurgy

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cherokee said:
I cant get your links to work but did you also look at the states where the data came from?

States with more blacks will have higher black crime rates.
replace & with an & in the url.

XML is ruining the internet! :lol:
 

millsy

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cherokee said:
I cant get your links to work but did you also look at the states where the data came from?

States with more blacks will have higher black crime rates.

The one link looks at all people put to death since the reintroduction of the death penalty. It compares their skin colour to the skin colour if their victims. The other comes mainly from Pennsylvania but also looks at data and rulings from all over the country.


That being said, it isn't about the black crime rate. They control for that. If there were more murders committed by blacks it would make sense that more would be sentenced to die, but that's not the case. What is happening is that blacks and whites are being sentenced to die in a ratio that is not consistant with the crimes committed.
 

zymurgy

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millsy said:
The one link looks at all people put to death since the reintroduction of the death penalty. It compares their skin colour to the skin colour if their victims. The other comes mainly from Pennsylvania but also looks at data and rulings from all over the country.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...=5&did=184 - won't work in most browsers - the & is the problem.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...=5&did=184 - this version will work
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...45&did=539
 

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millsy said:
One of the most important factors in whether or not someone gets sentenced to die is the colour of his skin, and the colour of his victims skin.
It doesn't seem that important versus the crime rate and I see nothing at

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=5&did=184

That say there were controls for the crime rate in the study. What I DO find most telling is that blacks are killing whites and a very disporpotionate rate, almost 18:1 versus whites killing blacks which in fact is rare.. Why is that and what can be done about it?
 

jamesrage

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millsy said:
One of the most important factors in whether or not someone gets sentenced to die is the colour of his skin, and the colour of his victims skin.

"The odds of receiving a death sentence are nearly four times (3.9) higher if the defendant is black"

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=5&did=184

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=45&did=539



How can this type of blatant racism still be allowed to exist?
I will ask you some questions.

1).Are these numbers based on the the same types of cases in which the same DA is on?

2)Which states have the most death row convictions where the majority of death row inmates are black?
 
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nineplus

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millsy said:
Actually they controlled for things such as type of crime. What they're saying is for a given sample of equal crimes the DA is more likely to pursue the death penalty if the defendant is Black.

not trying to split hairs here, but several factors jump out when I read this type of thing............isn't the DA going to pursue the cases most likely to win, at least pursue them with greater resources/gusto? isn't the DA going to ask for sentencing s/he feels is the maximum s/he can get from judges/juries? and if the DA's office is functioning under these types of concepts, aren't we really just saying they are fighting the battles they can win and juries are more likely to convict/sentence persons of color? my point being that the laws aren't flawed themselves and the enforcement of the law is partially dependent on the public (as in juries) and of course officials in those roles are going to pursue those cases they can win.........so aren't we really just saying we have a racist public? is it the system being harsh or just the public component of the system?
 

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One refutation:

"The claim that the death penalty unfairly impacts blacks and minorities is a deliberate fraud. The majority of those executed since 1976 have been white, even though black criminals commit a slim majority of murders. If the death penalty is racist, it is biased against white murderers and not blacks.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks committed 51.5% of murders between 1976 and 1999, while whites committed 46.5%. Yet even though blacks committed a majority of murders, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reports: "Since the death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976, white inmates have made up the majority of those under sentence of death." (Emphasis added.) Whites continued to comprise the majority on death row in the year 2000 (1,990 whites to 1,535 blacks and 68 others). In the year 2000, 49 of the 85 people actually put to death were whites.

So how can abolitionists claim that the death penalty unfairly punishes black people and other minorities? The statistics they cite are often technically accurate (though not always), but they don?t mean what most people assume they mean. Abolitionists often start by analyzing the race of the victims rather than the murderers. Because most murders are intra-racial (white murderers mostly kill other whites and most black murderers kill other blacks), imposing the death penalty more frequently on white murderers means that killers of white people will more likely be executed. In essence, abolitionists playing the race card argue that black murder victims are not receiving justice because only the murderers of white people are punished with the death penalty. Death penalty proponents may consider this denying justice to black people.

New "hate crimes" laws are likely to worsen the hypocrisy. A "hate crimes" mentality translates into tougher sentences for interracial "hate crimes." Because white people are killed by black people 2.6 times more frequently than black people are killed by white people, more killers of white people will be susceptible to receiving the death penalty than killers of black people."
 

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Stinger said:
It doesn't seem that important versus the crime rate and I see nothing at

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=5&did=184

That say there were controls for the crime rate in the study. What I DO find most telling is that blacks are killing whites and a very disporpotionate rate, almost 18:1 versus whites killing blacks which in fact is rare.. Why is that and what can be done about it?
The study was only talking about cases where the murderer was sentenced to death. If you are sentenced to die in an interracial murder, you're 18 times more likely to be black. They don't mention how many interracial murders there are, and they probably should. If blacks are killing whites at an 18:1 ratio, and being sentenced to die at that same ratio in interracial cases, then it's a moot point. But, I highly doubt that's the case.
 

millsy

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alphamale said:
One refutation:

"The claim that the death penalty unfairly impacts blacks and minorities is a deliberate fraud. The majority of those executed since 1976 have been white, even though black criminals commit a slim majority of murders. If the death penalty is racist, it is biased against white murderers and not blacks.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, blacks committed 51.5% of murders between 1976 and 1999, while whites committed 46.5%. Yet even though blacks committed a majority of murders, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reports: "Since the death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976, white inmates have made up the majority of those under sentence of death." (Emphasis added.) Whites continued to comprise the majority on death row in the year 2000 (1,990 whites to 1,535 blacks and 68 others). In the year 2000, 49 of the 85 people actually put to death were whites.

Good point. And I think that it should be strongly considered. I don't think it tells the whole story though. When deciding whether or not to pursue the death penalty many factors are weighed. Most important is the nature of the killing. While it may be true that blacks kill more over all, white people are much much more likely to have; multiple victims, perform killings in a sexual nature, kill a family member, kill someone with whom they have an intimate relationship. All things that will garner stronger death penalty consideration.
 

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millsy said:
The study was only talking about cases where the murderer was sentenced to death.
Which is still quite telling and I still see nothing claiming they could factor our the fact that blacks simply commit crimes and at particularly and distubingly higher porportion.

I haven't found anything specific to murder yet but let's look at the bigger picture. Keep in mind that Whites outnumber blacks by about 8 to 1.

Interracial Crime
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.







I think the bigger question is what do we do about this?



 

millsy

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Stinger said:
Which is still quite telling and I still see nothing claiming they could factor our the fact that blacks simply commit crimes and at particularly and distubingly higher porportion.

I haven't found anything specific to murder yet but let's look at the bigger picture. Keep in mind that Whites outnumber blacks by about 8 to 1.

I think the bigger question is what do we do about this?
There's no question that it is a huge concern and needs to be dealt with. Of the hip I would say a big reason for that is the location of poor people. Poor white people largely live in rural areas which are predominantly white. Poor black people live in urban areas where they are surrounded by wealth.

Your numbers 85 to 15

let's say they are accurate for murder as well.

Since 1976 209 blacks have been sentenced to death compared to 12 whites for interracial killings.

that's approx. 94 to 6.

That's not even close to proportional.
 

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millsy said:
There's no question that it is a huge concern and needs to be dealt with. Of the hip I would say a big reason for that is the location of poor people. Poor white people largely live in rural areas which are predominantly white. Poor black people live in urban areas where they are surrounded by wealth.

Your numbers 85 to 15

let's say they are accurate for murder as well.

Since 1976 209 blacks have been sentenced to death compared to 12 whites for interracial killings.

that's approx. 94 to 6.

That's not even close to proportional.



Do any of these convictions have the same judge, same jury and same DA?
 

millsy

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jamesrage said:
Do any of these convictions have the same judge, same jury and same DA?
those numbers 209:12 are all the cases nation wide since 1976, so I doubt that too many of the judges are similar. The DA's offices might be similar when you think that a lot of executions happen in a few states.
 

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millsy said:
those numbers 209:12 are all the cases nation wide since 1976, so I doubt that too many of the judges are similar. The DA's offices might be similar when you think that a lot of executions happen in a few states.
I would think that if these execution sentences were racist, I would think that these case would have the same judge,jury and DA to support the idea that the death penalty is racist.
 

millsy

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jamesrage said:
I would think that if these execution sentences were racist, I would think that these case would have the same judge,jury and DA to support the idea that the death penalty is racist.
Actually, that's the point. It's not just one judge, one district attorney, it is in fact the entire system. If it were just one judge, or one attorney I should have titled the thread, John Doe of the So and So's District Attorney's office, is a racist.
 

jamesrage

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millsy said:
Actually, that's the point. It's not just one judge, one district attorney, it is in fact the entire system. If it were just one judge, or one attorney I should have titled the thread, John Doe of the So and So's District Attorney's office, is a racist.
How can you make such claims if the execution sentences are handed out by different judges,different juries and different DAs?
 

millsy

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jamesrage said:
How can you make such claims if the execution sentences are handed out by different judges,different juries and different DAs?
Because there are trends across the nation. Those trends point to being black as being a significant factor in whether or not you will be sentenced to die.
 

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millsy said:
There's no question that it is a huge concern and needs to be dealt with.
That's the question, how.

Of the hip I would say a big reason for that is the location of poor people. Poor white people largely live in rural areas which are predominantly white. Poor black people live in urban areas where they are surrounded by wealth.
I'm sorry I miss the connection and don't agree with your premise I think you are making anyway. Why would that be a cause of blacks, and in particular black males, committing such a huge number of crimes?

> Poor white people largely live in rural areas which are predominantly white.

Poor black people largely live in urban AND rural areas which are predominatly Black.

So why does that make them commit crimes against Whites?

>> Poor black people live in urban areas where they are surrounded by wealth.

Not necessarily, but why does that make them commit so many crimes?


Your numbers 85 to 15

let's say they are accurate for murder as well.

Since 1976 209 blacks have been sentenced to death compared to 12 whites for interracial killings.

that's approx. 94 to 6.

That's not even close to proportional.
Actually it is fairly close.
 
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