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The Clinton Legacy

I think most have it wrong.

Bickering over good and bad presidents is a side show.

I think our political leaders are now SUBJECTS to the will of BIG MONEY.
The ruling class is the extreme wealthy class and NOT so called elected officials.

That's why nearly every elected official seems to follow the same course and that course seems to always go against the mainstream of the will of the people.

In every sense of the terms, it would take a billionaire to buck the billionaire "establishment". But why would one?
Exactly! I 100% agree. The reason why many of those rich billionaires don't say a thing is because you don't bite the hand that feeds you.
 
The Dot com boom and bust accounted for 2 million out of 22 million jobs created during the Clinton years. Thats why I went with the 20 million number rather than 22 million. Since I wanted to go with the net creation after the dot com bust.

Please post your source for these numbers.
 
It could well be that those supporting the Clintons are those who have been supported (paid off) by the Clintons in some way in return for political or financial "favors"
While we can't prove it (yet) and they will vehemently deny it, given the facts it seems most plausible.

The only other viable alternative is absolute ignorance.

Hummm...the only other viable alternative is absolute ignorance!

Oh, well. I think Bill Clinton was a terrific president...and I think Hillary Clinton will be just as terrific.

I probably should feel bad about this, but I delight in people who hate them as much as you do, N. I get a kick out of you guys.
 
Hummm...the only other viable alternative is absolute ignorance!
Oh, well. I think Bill Clinton was a terrific president...and I think Hillary Clinton will be just as terrific.
I probably should feel bad about this, but I delight in people who hate them as much as you do, N. I get a kick out of you guys.

Hate them? You make things up as you go.
I dislike their greed and that they lend themselves so completely to usury for monetary gain.

That you "delight" in things of this nature and get a "kick" out of people who point out the obvious is more telling of your character than my imagined hatred.

btw, I don't think that married Presidents who lie about having oral sex while cheating on their spouse in the oval office are necessarily "terrific" as you do.
No doubt Hillary Clinton will meet your lofty benchmarks if elected as well.
 
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Hate them? You make things up as you go.
I dislike their greed and that they lend themselves so completely to usury for monetary gain.

Considering your frequent tirades...yeah, I think you hate them.

That you "delight" in things of this nature and get a "kick" out of people who point out the obvious is more telling of your character than my imagined hatred.

You are free to think that.

btw, I don't think that married Presidents who lie about having oral sex while cheating on their spouse in the oval office are necessarily "terrific" as you do.

I think a president is "terrific" based on what he does as president...rather than because he does or does not toe a particular moral line. You feel differently. Fine with me.


No doubt Hillary Clinton will meet your lofty benchmarks if elected as well.

I have no doubt but that she will. And I surely think she, as was her husband, will be a better president than what the other side has offered in recent times.
 
In some ways that is true but Reagan cut taxes on the upper brackets ran record deficits. Clinton raised them and ran record SURPLUSES. But carrying on the policies of Republicans was a mistake, especially Phil Gramm's banking deregulation. But to be fair, Clinton did run on a promise of compromise and that is what he did. Then you had the (formerly)much admired Greenspan banging the drum about how wonderful the deregulated banking world would be too.

1) Reagan ran deficits due to a spend happy Dem Congress. Clinton only had BUDGET surpluses (with a REP Congress). Clinton never had an actual surplus. That is simply the lie told by the two parties that many gullible people continue chanting to this day.

2) Clinton put up $1.5-1.6T in deficit spending. Reagan had about $1.6-1.8T. So not much difference.

3) Clinton put forth the greatest tax cut to the wealthy (along with the Rep Congress) by cutting cap gains taxes to 20%.

4) Calling the repeal of Glass Steagall 'Phil Gramms banking regulation' is a bit ridiculous. Clinton was championing it every bit as hard as any Rep (because both parties are beholden to Wall St.)
 
Even after the dot com bust, Clinton still had 20 million net new jobs. We were coming out of a recession when Clinton took office, the boom did not start until around 1995, and anyway you slice it, the budget situation was far better in the Clinton years than it was in the decades before or since.

Clinton is a perfect example of what happens in this country under a moderate. The extremes of both sides hate moderates despite the fact that the economy has always done well under them (Clinton and Eisenhower for example).

No, we were not coming out of a recession. We were already out. The recession of the early 90's was a tiny blip. The economic boom began in 1983. The tech/telecom/biotech boom began in the late 80's and early 90's. Long before Clinton took office.
 
1) Reagan ran deficits due to a spend happy Dem Congress.

Ummm...NONSENSE.

Ronald Reagan could have vetoed any bill passed by the congress...and he had a Republican majority Senate for 6 of his 8 years in office...so any veto was over-ride proof.

Reagan ran deficits for lots of reasons...but a spend happy Dem congress was not responsible.
 
No, we were not coming out of a recession. We were already out. The recession of the early 90's was a tiny blip. The economic boom began in 1983. The tech/telecom/biotech boom began in the late 80's and early 90's. Long before Clinton took office.

The tech boom did not begin in earnest until the Telecommunications Deregulation Act of 1996.
 
Please post your source for these numbers.

800px-U.S._Employment_Changes_-_Total_Non-Farm_1970_to_Present.png


The Labor Department estimates that a net 1.735 million jobs were shed in 2001, with an additional net 508,000 lost during 2002. 2003 saw a small gain of a mere 105,000 jobs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_2000s_recession
Even after the early 2000s recession, the Clinton administration still had a net gain of 20 million new jobs.
 
I've messaged you, the Clinton boom was driven by an unsustainable increase in private sector debt.

That would only be the case if the government was generating so much of a surplus that it slowed the velocity of money in the overall economy as was feared in the early 60s when the war debt was paid off.
 
The tech boom did not begin in earnest until the Telecommunications Deregulation Act of 1996.

You have got to be kidding. Dell, Oracle, Intel, Microsoft etc... were all booming in the late 80's and through the 90's. Pretending the tech boom didn't start until 96 is absurd.
 
That would only be the case if the government was generating so much of a surplus that it slowed the velocity of money in the overall economy as was feared in the early 60s when the war debt was paid off.

But it was the case.
How Bill Clinton's Balanced Budget Destroyed The Economy - Business Insider
If the government is in surplus, it means that the government is taking in more cash than it's spending, which is the opposite of stimulus.

It's also well known that the US trade deficit exploded during the late 90s, which means that 'X-M' was also a huge drag on GDP during his years.

So the trade deficit was subtracting from GDP, and the government was sucking up more money from the private sector than it was pushing out.

There was only one "sector" of the economy left to compensate: Private consumption. And private consumption compensated for the drags from government and trade in two ways.

First, the household savings rate collapsed during the Clinton years.

And even more ominously, household debt began to surge.

"Now, you might ask, "What's the matter with a negative private sector balance?". We had that during the Clinton boom, and we had low inflation, decent growth and very low unemployment. The Goldilocks economy, as it was known. The great moderation. Again, few economists saw what was happening with any degree of clarity. My colleagues at the Levy Institute were not fooled. Wynne Godley wrote brilliant stuff during this period. While the CBO was predicting surpluses "as far as the eye can see" (15+ years in their forecasts), Wynne said it would never happen. He knew it couldn't because the government could only run surpluses for 15+ years if the domestic private sector ran deficits for 15+ years. The CBO had it all wrong, and they had it wrong because they did not understand the implications of their forecast for the rest of the economy. The private sector cannot survive in negative territory. It cannot go on, year after year, spending more than its income. It is not like the US government. It cannot support rising indebtedness in perpetuity. It is not a currency issuer. Eventually, something will give. And when it does, the private sector will retrench, the economy will contract, and the government's budget will move back into deficit."
 
No. It would be Trump.

Well, Trump has not become president yet so... no.

But Reagan is to the Republicans what Clinton has been to the Democrats. Each party considers their respective president to have been a great leader who has done great things when, in reality, both have done a lot of longterm damage to this country.
 
It is because African Americans saw their poverty rates drop to the lowest levels in U.S. history and their median incomes rise at a greater rate than they ever had before.

That "statistic" was smoke and mirrors. Government statistics like poverty/unemployment rates do not include the incarcerated. By 2001, 42% of young black men were unemployed if you include those in prison.

“Much of the optimism about declines in racial inequality and the power of the US model of economic growth is misplaced once we account for the invisible poor, behind the walls of America’s prisons and jails.” - Bruce Western, Harvard sociologist
 
Well, Trump has not become president yet so... no.

But Reagan is to the Republicans what Clinton has been to the Democrats. Each party considers their respective president to have been a great leader who has done great things when, in reality, both have done a lot of longterm damage to this country.

The real damage has been done lately. This country looks more like Latvia by the minute.
 
Oh, well. I think Bill Clinton was a terrific president.

So driving up drug prices through NAFTA was terrific?
Promoting "three strike" rule was terrific?
The racist laws on crack were terrific?
Repealing Glass-Steagall was terrific?
Signing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was terrific?
Signing the 1996 Telecommunications Act was terrific?
Reappointing Greenspan was terrific?
 
The real damage has been done lately. This country looks more like Latvia by the minute.

If you are implying Obama Administration, I do not necessarily disagree.

Just remember that the impact of presidencies do not exist in bubbles. We are still reeling from the policies of both Clinton and Reagan.
 
So driving up drug prices through NAFTA was terrific?
Promoting "three strike" rule was terrific?
The racist laws on crack were terrific?
Repealing Glass-Steagall was terrific?
Signing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was terrific?
Signing the 1996 Telecommunications Act was terrific?
Reappointing Greenspan was terrific?

You obviously do not think Bill Clinton was a fine president, Geo.

Okay.

So...how 'bout them Giants?
 
He was a fine president, Thoreau...better than any Republican president since Dwight Eisenhower.

Only if all presidents are criminals, is that true. He was a dandy, yes indeed, and I always admired him for not inhaling. ;)
 
Only if all presidents are criminals, is that true. He was a dandy, yes indeed, and I always admired him for not inhaling. ;)

Oh, it is true, Thoreau. Bill Clinton was a much better president than ANY Republican since Dwight Eisenhower.
 
You have got to be kidding. Dell, Oracle, Intel, Microsoft etc... were all booming in the late 80's and through the 90's. Pretending the tech boom didn't start until 96 is absurd.

Really?

microsoft.jpg

As someone that has worked as an IT professional for 20 years now, I know a little about this subject.
 
That "statistic" was smoke and mirrors. Government statistics like poverty/unemployment rates do not include the incarcerated. By 2001, 42% of young black men were unemployed if you include those in prison.

“Much of the optimism about declines in racial inequality and the power of the US model of economic growth is misplaced once we account for the invisible poor, behind the walls of America’s prisons and jails.” - Bruce Western, Harvard sociologist

And once again you have to take weigh the good against the bad. The 1994 crime bill did lead to an increase in incarceration, it also lead to huge drop in violent crime.

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A lot of people don't realize today how much safer cities are than they were 20 years ago. The difference in inner cities is night and day compared to how it was. Once again, the Clintons enjoy strong support in the African American community because the Clinton presidency did a lot for the African American community.
 
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