The Bigger the Government…the Smaller the citizen.

[aociswundumho]

Government WILL Grow as it has always been designed to do. IF people were "honest and civil" and did not do things that can and will and does harm others, there would likely not need to be such details to Regulatory Governance. But, the Malice, Greed, Sloth, and Vile that people engage, causes people to do thing, that requires the Government to create and expand Regulatory Governance.

If people are vile, dishonest, and full of malice and greed, then the last thing we'd want is to allow a relatively small group of them to rule over everybody else.

But perhaps you believe that politicians are morally superior to the rest of us?

 

[CaughtInThe]

The Republican party has never been for small government. Hell, they just supported a president who got on social media and insulted American citizens on a daily basis.

 

[eohrnberger]

How does tax cuts for the rich allow ‘the people’ to keep more money if the cost of government services increases to offset the reduction in expected tax revenues?

From your post it seems you believe the only possible tax cuts or tax relief are ones which only apply to the rich.
Sorry, but I find this opinion uninformed.

Below is the percentage point decline for each bracket. Also note that $5,650 increase in the standard deduction.

What income brackets have the 3% and 4% reductions? And which have the 1% reductions?

 

[aociswundumho]

You're spot on. The operations involved in governing a country as large and complex as the US requires enormous expertise and resources.

Yes, politicians are experts in virtually every subject.

 

[Allan]

Yes, politicians are experts in virtually every subject.

Politicians are not, which is why they need to hire experts.

 

[highroller]

From your post it seems you believe the only possible tax cuts or tax relief are ones which only apply to the rich.
Sorry, but I find this opinion uninformed.

Below is the percentage point decline for each bracket. Also note that $5,650 increase in the standard deduction.

What income brackets have the 3% and 4% reductions? And which have the 1% reductions?

Yeah a 1% decrease in income over $500,000 is really comparable to a 3% decrease on an income of $10,000. And what about those people they had to pay the extra in their government services?

Get out of here….

 

[eohrnberger]

Yes, politicians are experts in virtually every subject.

 

[eohrnberger]

Yeah a 1% decrease in income over $500,000 is really comparable to a 3% decrease on an income of $10,000.

Percentage wise, absolutely. The numbers don't lie.

And what about those people they had to pay the extra in their government services?

Which people and which government services are you talking about?

 

[ClaraD]

That is a rather odd example of good government working to protect folks. It seems that those folks were relying on government which waited until the building collapsed to take action.

government regulations that didn't exist in their proper form....

 

[ClaraD]

If people are vile, dishonest, and full of malice and greed, then the last thing we'd want is to allow a relatively small group of them to rule over everybody else.

But perhaps you believe that politicians are morally superior to the rest of us?

how do you feel about big government in relation to military and border control?

 

[ttwtt78640]

People who lust to live in a Savage Society... Maybe they should pack up and go find a deserted Island if they can't understand what is governance and what is the responsibility to live in a Governed Society.

Government WILL Grow as it has always been designed to do. IF people were "honest and civil" and did not do things that can and will and does harm others, there would likely not need to be such details to Regulatory Governance. But, the Malice, Greed, Sloth, and Vile that people engage, causes people to do thing, that requires the Government to create and expand Regulatory Governance.

Examples:

• Even in a city community, there has to be Property Standards, because some people are "slobs" and "engage in activities" that degrade the structural elements of community...
• Some Business will do anything for the sake of Money...
• Some Individual are criminal of every sort and type
• Some people are driven by Savagery of any and every sort

It takes a system of Governance, within a Governed Society, to enact laws, polices and regulation to protect and improve conditions and environment as well as activities for the greater benefit of the greater society.

Hmm… that seems to be based on the premise that people actually get worse as government power and expense grows. Otherwise, what is driving the (perceived?) need for constantly growing government?

There seems to be a false choice between needing an ever growing government and having no government at all. It’s as if the optimal level (HOA, city, county, state, federal or global) of government power is being seen as one level up.

 

[ttwtt78640]

government regulations that didn't exist in their proper form....

Really? Your evidence for that is having one out of many thousands of buildings with a (presumed) structural failure. That seems to offer more evidence of government enforcement imperfection (hiring some lazy, incompetent and/or corrupt inspectors) than lack of having enough government regulations. I suppose that your idea of a fix is to add ever more government inspectors to reinspect the work of (ever more?) other government inspectors.

 

[ClaraD]

Really? Your evidence for that is having one out of many thousands of buildings with a (presumed) structural failure. That seems to offer more evidence of government enforcement imperfection (hiring some lazy, incompetent and/or corrupt inspectors) than lack of having enough government regulations. I suppose that your idea of a fix is to add ever more government inspectors to reinspect the work of (ever more?) other government inspectors.

in Florida, high rises have an inspection every 40 years...that is essentially no regulation......restaurants have tougher inspections than these buildings housing hundreds and even thousands of people...a building can fall down, be in bad disrepair, no problem...be built with less rebar than required, no issue...but God forbid a Palmetto bug fly through the restaurant...that is a tragedy I tell you.

 

[tshade]

Hyperbole is not an argument.

Moreover, it is more truthful to declare that WE are the GOVERNED!

The only thing WE do (if not running for office ourselves) is vote for other's to represent us. THEY then make the laws and create administrative agencies; then appoint/hire bureaucrats to administer/enforce the laws, rules, and regulations.

truth is not hyper-anything...............
We are governed by OUR consent......

The "ONLY" thing we do is vote ??!!??!!! That is quite a lot------now, if we can only get more than 30% doing it !!
Voting it the very LEAST you can do. When is the last time you helped someone GET on a ballot ???

 

[tshade]

Oh yeah? Your Congress Persons and Senators listens to you or the Special Interest Groups? LOL

"we are" LOL how deliciously naïve.

??? WHO elects these guys?? Hint: look in a mirror.....

 

[ttwtt78640]

in Florida, high rises have an inspection every 40 years...that is essentially no regulation......restaurants have tougher inspections than these buildings housing hundreds and even thousands of people...a building can fall down, be in bad disrepair, no problem...be built with less rebar than required, no issue...but God forbid a Palmetto bug fly through the restaurant...that is a tragedy I tell you.

Governments can be inefficient regardless of how big they become. Are you calling for reduction in food service inspections (inspectors?) or simply an increase in residential building inspections (inspectors?)?

Residential buildings should have insurance. Insurance premium rates should be based on risk, and risk should be based on building inspection. As the OP noted, as government (bloat?) increases, others tend to slack off thinking that folks will blame any problems on their (bloated?) government rather than any of the private parties involved.

 

[madman]

People who lust to live in a Savage Society... Maybe they should pack up and go find a deserted Island if they can't understand what is governance and what is the responsibility to live in a Governed Society.

Government WILL Grow as it has always been designed to do. IF people were "honest and civil" and did not do things that can and will and does harm others, there would likely not need to be such details to Regulatory Governance. But, the Malice, Greed, Sloth, and Vile that people engage, causes people to do thing, that requires the Government to create and expand Regulatory Governance.

Examples:

• Even in a city community, there has to be Property Standards, because some people are "slobs" and "engage in activities" that degrade the structural elements of community...
• Some Business will do anything for the sake of Money...
• Some Individual are criminal of every sort and type
• Some people are driven by Savagery of any and every sort

It takes a system of Governance, within a Governed Society, to enact laws, polices and regulation to protect and improve conditions and environment as well as activities for the greater benefit of the greater society.

agreed!

Personal responsibility is JUST another conservative talking point.

people are NOT ****ing responsible no matter how much you wish for them to be. It ain't happening.
People are ****ing lazy.

 

[bomberfox]

View attachment 67345310
OH, this is too rich, so let's take this apart:

Canada, we all agree, is left of the U.S. where we citizens have things like universal healthcare and a centralized government.

SO.........

Liberty: The jurisdictions that took the top 10 places, in order, were New Zealand, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Denmark, Australia, Canada, Ireland, Estonia, and Germany and Sweden (tied in 9th place). Selected countries rank as follows: Japan (11), the United Kingdom and the United States (tied in 17th place)

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index/2020

Individuality: The fundamental issue addressed by this dimension is the degree of interdependence a society maintains among its members. It has to do with whether people´s self-image is defined in terms of “I” or “We”.
Canada scores 80 on this dimension (its highest dimension score) and can be characterized as an Individualist culture.

Country Comparison - Hofstede Insights

Country comparison Select one or several countries/regions in the menu below to see the values for the 6 dimensions. Go further, discover our cultural survey tool, the Culture Compass™ or join our…

www.hofstede-insights.com

Goodness: talk about something being subjective!
The North American country ranked first in both the Quality of Life and Social Purpose subrankings, meaning that it is seen as a stable and safe society in which individuals can develop and prosper, and is open, fair and equitable.
The Top 10 Countries in the World:
1. Canada
2. Japan
3. Germany
4. Switzerland
5. Australia
6. United States
7. New Zealand
8. United Kingdom
9. Sweden
10. Netherlands

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/us-news-unveils-best-countries-rankings

Human Character: Canadians see themselves — and are seen by many abroad — as more socially progressive, communal, and courteous than Americans. These and other benevolent traits like kindness, tolerance, humility, and decency are proclaimed as stereotypic traits of Canadians.
Canadians take great pride in their National Health care system (contrasting their success with the coronavirus), strong social support systems, low-cost preschool, elementary, high school, and college education, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, and other federal institutions.
Americans have been positively described by Canadians as outgoing, confident, and assertive, or criticized as bombastic, selfish, and aggressive (particularly during the Trump administration).
Canadians have been positively described by Americans as modest, respectful, and tolerant, or negatively, as boring and withdrawn.
There are certain areas of concern which particularly challenge the United States:
There are greater demands on individuals and families (in contrast to Canada’s health, social, and educational supports).
Numerous experiences with aggression, guns, and violence threaten the social fabric and sense of belonging and community.
The brutal effects of slavery still linger, while prejudice, racism, and extremism undermine the foundational ideals.
Disparities between the ultra-wealthy and the needy contribute to polarization, demoralization, and authoritarianism.

Canada and the United States: Different Peas in a Pod

Heretofore friendly neighbors have recently been seeing the world differently.

www.psychologytoday.com

What this OP does prove, is something we have known all along: America does rule when it comes to:

Chest Beating
Bleating
Self-Importance
Thinking physical might equals "Character".

Hmm Japan i dunno about equitable. Their business culture can be more soul crushing than in America.

 

[ttwtt78640]

??? WHO elects these guys?? Hint: look in a mirror.....

Congress critters enjoy a re-election rate of over 90% despite having a public approval rating barely above that of a roadkill sandwich. Far too many voters are content to leave their congress critters in place simply because the alternative is to vote for a ”wrong” party replacement candidate. Normally, if a congress critter is not dumped during their party’s primary then they are going to be re-elected in the general election.

 

[madman]

The Republican party has never been for small government. Hell, they just supported a president who got on social media and insulted American citizens on a daily basis.

gotta "stick it to the libs."

 

[aociswundumho]

how do you feel about big government in relation to military and border control?

The same way I do about everything the state does.

 

[bomberfox]

truth is not hyper-anything...............
We are governed by OUR consent......

The "ONLY" thing we do is vote ??!!??!!! That is quite a lot------now, if we can only get more than 30% doing it !!
Voting it the very LEAST you can do. When is the last time you helped someone GET on a ballot ???

The ability to vote alone is not enough to establish that as we can see with the amount of influence money has in decision making. We also see the disenfranchisement of gerrymandering. Disenfranchisement through malappropriation is still disenfranchisement.

 

[Allan]

Congress critters enjoy a re-election rate of over 90% despite having a public approval rating barely above that of a roadkill sandwich. Far too many voters are content to leave their congress critters in place simply because the alternative is to vote for a ”wrong” party replacement candidate. Normally, if a congress critter is not dumped during their party’s primary then they are going to be re-elected in the general election.

Yup - tribalism gives politicians a pass when it comes to accountability. When voters hold their own side accountable you'd see a marked improvement in results.

 

[gbg3]

I agree with your thesis, but I'll add one other result under Human Character: Loss of sense of value.

If you work, save, shop and finally take on the responsibility that comes with buying a large ticket item...such as shelter...you tend to value that item more and take care of it. When the government GIVES you that item you tend to value that item less and NOT take care of it. An example is "public housing". It looks so nice when it's newly built, but after a few years it looks like a slum because the people who were given apartments tend not to value stuff that they didn't work for.

Absolutely! It gives one such a strong and important sense of pride and of value when you've planned, worked, and saved to get to big goals like the purchase of a home or college tuition for one's child. When you're young and starting out, that can be something much, much smaller like school supplies and new shoes for a child heading to 1st grade. Providing for oneself and one's family has many character building rewards.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yup - tribalism gives politicians a pass when it comes to accountability. When voters hold their own side accountable you'd see a marked improvement in results.

Exactly. The ‘lesser of two evils’ argument still results in supporting evil.