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The Bible Survived Attempts to Alter Its Message...

tosca1 said:
You don't believe Jesus had bodily resurrected from the dead.
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Impossible...
1. there were men standing guard at his tomb for 3 days...

2. when he was resurrected, if Jesus had taken back his human body of flesh and blood, which had been given in sacrifice to pay the ransom price, that ransom would have been cancelled out...
 
tosca1 said:
Therefore, you guys also believe you know more than God!
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Wrong again, unlike you, I know what God's Word tells me...
 
Elora said:
Wrong and neither does Jesus...worship no one but Jehovah God...

"Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship,+ and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” Matthew 4:10
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I'm saying..........................WORSHIP!
If you think Jesus is just a god, then you shouldn't think there's anything wrong about worshipping a god, after all, many had worshipped Him and He never rebuked or corrected them!
Jesus had accepted their worship!

Matthew 28:9
And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

John 9:38
38 And he said, “I believe, Lord.” And he worshiped Him.

Luke 24:52
And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

Matthew 28:17
And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.


Philippians 2:10
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

​

He was worshipped since He was a child!​



Matthew 2:11
And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.



Thus, all those are consistent with this verse, which is LITERALLY what Thomas meant!


John 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”




If Jesus isn't God Himself - what does that tells about the JESUS - the "god" - that you believe in?
 
tosca1 said:
The main message in the Bible has remained the same. I'm talking about the reputable, mainstream ones that are used by scholars.
UNLESS we're talking of cults and other kinds of "bibles" - like the Jehovah' Witnesses Bible (NWT) - that had blatantly made changes to tailor it to the message they want to preach.


#2 Trinity (Triune God)
#3 JW changes phrase of Genesis 1
#4 False Teaching: Soul Dies With Physical Body; Adam and Eve
#5 Continuation Soul Dies With Physical Body; Jesus is God (Omnipresence)
#13 “Believing In Jesus Christ” – what it means
#18 JW changes John 1:1 and contradicts Isaiah 43:10
#21 Why is it dangerous?
# 24 Wasn't Jesus called a leader of a cult?/Comparison to altering Harry Potter

#27, 28, 29, 30 Jesus Is The Archangel Michael
#40 Why don't JW celebrate Christmas?
#40 Continuation Jesus is the Archangel Michael
#41, 42, 43 Why Don't Jehovah's Witnesses Celebrate Christmas?
#44 Addendum: Jesus Christ Is The Archangel Michael


#45 Article (9 Things You Should Know About JW) – thanks to LittleNipper
#46 10 Questions To Ask a JW (thanks to LittleNipper)
#50 Video – JW misquoting Greek scholar, Julius Mantey
#51 Explanation of the Spirit (thanks to Logicman)
#57 Challenge Question repeated to Elora (which has been avoided in another thread).
#58 Rebuttal
#61, 65, 66 No Bodily Resurrection
#71 Rebuttal of LittleNipper to JW

The False Teachings Of The Jehovah's Witnesses

The organization that calls itself, “Jehovah's Witnesses,” is just one among many religions that teach false teachings, and would not have merited an in-depth topic about it .....however, it is one of the most actively tenacious proselytizers, using the name of Christianity. In that regard, it...
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com
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Scholars study it as a religious text, not a history book.
 
Elora said:
Wrong and neither does Jesus...worship no one but Jehovah God...

"Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship,+ and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” Matthew 4:10
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That's what happens when YOU DON'T READ THE BIBLE!
You give such silly answers!


Sacred service had been - and is - given to JESUS.
What do you think our commission is for?


Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,



Lol - you don't even read from your own site. And you claim to have studied? Maybe, that's good!
Here is their definition of sacred service:


Ministry, or work, that is sacred, being directly related to one’s worship of God.




Here's what the Bible says about false teachers, or those who lead others astray:

Romans 16:18
For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.


 
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tosca1 said:
I'm saying..........................WORSHIP!
If you think Jesus is just a god, then you shouldn't think there's anything wrong about worshipping a god, after all, many had worshipped Him and He never rebuked or corrected them!
Jesus had accepted their worship!

Matthew 28:9
And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

John 9:38
38 And he said, “I believe, Lord.” And he worshiped Him.

Luke 24:52
And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

Matthew 28:17
And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.


Philippians 2:10
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

​

He was worshipped since He was a child!​



Matthew 2:11
And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.



Thus, all those are consistent with this verse, which is LITERALLY what Thomas meant!


John 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”




If Jesus isn't God Himself - what does that tells about the JESUS - the "god" - that you believe in?
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"It is Jehovah your God you must worship,"
 
tosca1 said:
That's what happens when YOU DON'T READ THE BIBLE!
You give such silly answers!


Sacred service had been - and is - given to JESUS.
What do you think our commission is for?


Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,



Lol - you don't even read from your own site. And you claim to have studied? Maybe, that's good!
Here is their definition of sacred service:


Ministry, or work, that is sacred, being directly related to one’s worship of God.




Here's what the Bible says about false teachers:

Romans 16:18
For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Click to expand...
"Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship,+ and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” Matthew 4:10
 
Elora said:
Wrong again, unlike you, I know what God's Word tells me...
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Nope, you have faith in that, but you don't know. If you knew, you could source the fact.
 
mrjurrs said:
Nope, you have faith in that, but you don't know. If you knew, you could source the fact.
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c34e9f0b1a006d02a7d3a6128f8e32bc.jpg
 
Elora said:
Impossible...
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Of course, you don't believe that with God, nothing is impossible. :)




Elora said:
1. there were men standing guard at his tomb for 3 days...
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Here we are talking about Jesus Christ - who had performed all sorts of supernatural things while alive - and, you're giving three measly guards standing on duty, as your argument?


Never say that you haven't learned anything from me. For your edification:

Matthew 28
2 And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone, and sat upon it.
3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.
4 The guards shook from fear of him and became like dead men.


They fainted away! Or, became unconscious.




Elora said:
2. when he was resurrected, if Jesus had taken back his human body of flesh and blood, which had been given in sacrifice to pay the ransom price, that ransom would have been cancelled out...
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Only in your dreams!

His body had already SUFFERED AND DIED! That's what you're commemorating when you do your communion! That's the ransom! It's been done!

John 19
28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, in order that the Scripture would be fulfilled, *said, “I am thirsty.”
29 A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth.
30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

It's been all accomplished when He died.


What followed next (bodily resurrection), is................<can you guess?> ...........................VICTORY OVER DEATH!


1 Cor 15
12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised;
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain, your faith also is in vain.
15 Moreover, we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testifiedagainst God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
16 For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised;
17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19 If we have hoped in Christ only in this life, we are of all people most to be pitied.



1 Cor 15
51 Behold, I am telling you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised [x]imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 But when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.
55 Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law;
57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.





 
Elora said:
c34e9f0b1a006d02a7d3a6128f8e32bc.jpg
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I should ask you that: Is the Bible really God's Words?
Or............................................. is it Jehovah's Witnesses' words?
 
mrjurrs said:
The Bible was interpreted by man, written by man, and has been edited by man any number of times.
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How many times, and what were the edits?
 
it's just me said:
No, they study it as an ancient text.
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Some may, but alterations remove much of the ancient...you don't include the 1600's in that category do you?
 
mrjurrs said:
I wasn't there for any of them, do you deny the alterations?
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Yes, because there aren't any, except for the ones the Jehovah's Witnesses made.
 
mrjurrs said:
Some may, but alterations remove much of the ancient...you don't include the 1600's in that category do you?
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What about the 1600's?
 
For anyone interested in the TRUTH...

Is the New World Translation Accurate?​

The first part of the New World Translation was released in 1950. Since then, some people have commented on or questioned the accuracy of the New World Translation* because in places it differs from other translations of the Bible. The reasons for these differences usually fall into one of the following categories.
  • Reliability. The New World Translation is based on up-to-date scholarly research and the most reliable ancient manuscripts. In contrast, the King James Version of 1611 was based on manuscripts that were often less accurate and not as old as those used in producing the New World Translation.
  • Faithfulness. The New World Translation strives to convey faithfully the original message that was inspired by God. (2 Timothy 3:16) Many translations of the Bible sacrifice faithfulness to God’s message in favor of following human traditions, for instance by replacing God’s personal name, Jehovah, with titles such as Lord or God.
  • Literalness. Unlike paraphrased translations, the New World Translation renders words literally as long as doing so does not result in awkward wording or hide the thought of the original writings. Translations that paraphrase the Bible’s original text may insert human opinions or omit important details.

Differences between the New World Translation and other translations​

Missing books. In their Bibles, the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches include books known by some as the Apocrypha. However, those books were not accepted into the Jewish canon, and it is noteworthy that the Bible says that the Jews were the ones who were “entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God.” (Romans 3:1, 2) Thus, the New World Translation and many other modern Bible translations rightly exclude the books of the Apocrypha.
Missing verses. Some translations add verses and phrases that are not in the oldest available Bible manuscripts, but the New World Translation excludes such added material. Many modern translations either omit those later additions or acknowledge that those additions lack support from the most authoritative sources.*

Different wording. Occasionally, word-for-word translations are unclear or misleading. For example, Jesus’ statement at Matthew 5:3 is often translated: “Blessed are the poor in spirit.” (English Standard Version; King James Version; New International Version) Many find the literal rendering “poor in spirit” to be obscure, while some think that Jesus was highlighting the value of humility or poverty. However, Jesus’ point was that true happiness comes from recognizing the need for God’s guidance. The New World Translation accurately conveys his meaning with the words “those conscious of their spiritual need.”—Matthew 5:3.*
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https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502014189?q=accuracy+of+the+new+world+translation&p=sen
 
it's just me said:
Not that it matters to you, I'm sure, but the Apocrypha has never been considered canonical, by anybody.
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That's just one book.
There's more. The entire premise of the thread is bunk.
The Bible is perhaps the most abused and retreaded set of texts in recorded history.
At least a half dozen potentates had biblical texts reinterpreted, edited or entirely removed to suit their political agendas.
 
Somerville said:
It wasn't the Vatican removing "14 Books", it was Martin Luther and other Protestant theologians in the following years.
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The point is, "The Bible Survived Attempts to Alter Its Message..." is utter nonsense.
In fact, quite the opposite has happened.
 
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