Teen who was relentlessly bullied kills herself in front of her family

[Hawkeye10]

Any move to limit free speech on the internet is a step in the wrong directing IMO. Law enforcement should spend time investigating death threats, not fat jokes.

But But but BUT But .....TEEN GIRL LIVES MATTER!

Dead by suicide less often than 25 years ago but...

TEEN GIRL LIVES MATTER!

I cant believe that we need to argue about this..... a generation of Americans have rarely resisted to call to trade freedom for promises of safety, most especially the safety of our daughters, into whom we apparently cant expect parents to instill much of any intestinal fortitude into.

*sarcasm*

 

[truthatallcost]

Calling this "fat jokes" is a GROSS misrepresentation of what happened and massively underestimates the impact of what happened to this girl.

Who were these people ridiculing her? They couldn't have been strangers, that would just be too bizarre.

Anyway, I still say that we shouldn't regulate speech unless it represents a direct threat to human life. Millions of people have dealt with trolls, unfortunately this girl was too fragile to know how to handle it.

 

[truthatallcost]

But But but BUT But .....TEEN GIRL LIVES MATTER!

Dead by suicide less often than 25 years ago but...

TEEN GIRL LIVES MATTER!

I cant believe that we need to argue about this, a generation of Americans have rarely resisted to call to trade freedom for promises of safety, most especially the safety of our daughters, into whom we apparently cant expect parents to instill much of any intestinal fortitude into.

*sarcasm*

Well, her life did matter Hawk. She was just too sensitive to deal with this, and that's probably why she was targeted in the first place. If she'd known how to stand up to these shmucks, they probably would have moved on.

Tragic story, but computers don't kill people, so let's not try to regulate them with absurd laws.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Who were these people ridiculing her? They couldn't have been strangers, that would just be too bizarre.

They certainly could have been strangers. People find someone who they see as vulnerable and they attack. Doesn't matter if they know them in RL of not.

Anyway, I still say that we shouldn't regulate speech unless it represents a direct threat to human life. Millions of people have dealt with trolls, unfortunately this girl was too fragile to know how to handle it.

Free speech is not absolute and not absolved from consequences. And I don't doubt that she had issues going on that made it challenging for her to deal with this. That doesn't excuse the behavior of those who did the bullying.

 

[Hawkeye10]

They certainly could have been strangers. People find someone who they see as vulnerable and they attack. Doesn't matter if they know them in RL of not.



Free speech is not absolute and not absolved from consequences. And I don't doubt that she had issues going on that made it challenging for her to deal with this. That doesn't excuse the behavior of those who did the bullying.

Wait, you are condemning bullying, you who do so much of it?

Bullying has it uses, trying to whip the weak into some sort of shape so that they can accomplish something is a worthy task.

As you know, otherwise you would not be so practiced in the art.

 

[truthatallcost]

They certainly could have been strangers. People find someone who they see as vulnerable and they attack. Doesn't matter if they know them in RL of not.



Free speech is not absolute and not absolved from consequences. And I don't doubt that she had issues going on that made it challenging for her to deal with this. That doesn't excuse the behavior of those who did the bullying.

But in life, we're all expected to take a certain amount of **** right? And some people really are too fragile to survive. I'm not criticizing anyone for that, we're all different and the girl from the story was loved by all accounts.

What do you want to see happen from this?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Wait, you are condemning bullying, you who do so much of it?

Bullying has it uses, trying to whip the weak into some sort of shape so that they can accomplish something is a worthy task.

As you know, otherwise you would not be so practiced in the art.

Moderator's Warning:

This is REALLY not a direction you want to go, here.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

But in life, we're all expected to take a certain amount of **** right? And some people really are too fragile to survive. I'm not criticizing anyone for that, we're all different and the girl from the story was loved by all accounts.

What do you want to see happen from this?

A few things;

1) Increased identification and treatment of mental health issues to reduce issues such as what occurred.
2) Decreased stigmatization of mental health issues through social activism and education.
3) Anti-bullying legislation that stretches to the internet and gives consequences to those who who use social media to harass even after reasonable efforts have been made to stop contact with the bully.

 

[Hawkeye10]

:-(

:bon_voyag

 

[sookster]

It's very difficult to not agree with you, but I think it also points to exactly how bad this situation had become.
Mental illness, depression, and despair erode rational thinking.

This isn't mental illness. This depression was induced by the environment.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

This isn't mental illness. This depression was induced by the environment.

Even if that's true... and I would question that because others who might be more stable might have reacted differently, if the depression was caused by the environment, it was still depression severe enough to cause a suicide. That kind of depression is a psychological disorder

 

[truthatallcost]

A few things;

1) Increased identification and treatment of mental health issues to reduce issues such as what occurred.

I agree. Although a lot of people just can't afford quality mental health care, which may have been the case with Vela. The for-profit nature of mental health care insures that those who need it most probably won't receive it.

2) Decreased stigmatization of mental health issues through social activism and education.

I agree.

3) Anti-bullying legislation that stretches to the internet and gives consequences to those who who use social media to harass even after reasonable efforts have been made to stop contact with the bully.

I can't get on board. I think where the hell was Facebook through all of this? Why weren't they taking a more proactive measures to keep fake accounts off their site?

I won't support anti-bullying legislation however, because it's really a slippery slope of where it'll end up, and how it'll be used. In Germany, its illegal to insult someone online or face to face. We'd both be in jail for life if the US had similar laws :lol:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I agree. Although a lot of people just can't afford quality mental health care, which may have been the case with Vela. The for-profit nature of mental health care insures that those who need it most probably won't receive it.

This is often a health insurance issue which does not address and cover mental health issues in the same way as physical health issues. I see this on a daily basis. There is also NO push for preventative care. For example, we have yearly physicals. How come we don't have yearly mental health check-ins?

I agree.

I am encouraged by this thread. We've had many threads like this in my 10 years here. There are usually a couple of jerks who put down the mentally ill and attack them... hence my initial post in this thread. Across the political spectrum, folks have been civil and supportive on this issue and not demeaning of the girl, even when disagreeing on certain points.

I can't get on board. I think where the hell was Facebook through all of this? Why weren't they taking a more proactive measures to keep fake accounts off their site?

We are talking about a MASSIVE site that doesn't have that kind of resources. I am all for proactivity, but in this case, I can't see how it could reasonably occur.

[I won't support anti-bullying legislation however, because it's really a slippery slope of where it'll end up, and how it'll be used. In Germany, its illegal to insult someone online or face to face. We'd both be in jail for life if the US had similar laws :lol:

Slippery slopes don't have to happen, though. Something minimal but significant could suffice.

 

[truthatallcost]

This is often a health insurance issue which does not address and cover mental health issues in the same way as physical health issues. I see this on a daily basis. There is also NO push for preventative care. For example, we have yearly physicals. How come we don't have yearly mental health check-ins?



I am encouraged by this thread. We've had many threads like this in my 10 years here. There are usually a couple of jerks who put down the mentally ill and attack them... hence my initial post in this thread. Across the political spectrum, folks have been civil and supportive on this issue and not demeaning of the girl, even when disagreeing on certain points.



We are talking about a MASSIVE site that doesn't have that kind of resources. I am all for proactivity, but in this case, I can't see how it could reasonably occur.



Slippery slopes don't have to happen, though. Something minimal but significant could suffice.

I want to answer but I'm about to pass out. Nite man eace cya manana

 

[Fallenangel]

I was clear about why I posted it. You didn't like that I did and misrepresented the reason. Firstly, I don't care whether you liked it or not. We have another discussion on a similar issue, I'll do it again. And secondly, your misrepresentation is your issue. I've shown it for what it was. Again, if you don't like that, too bad.

The issue wasn't my advice. The issue was your understanding of it. You should probably work on that so you don't get things so wrong, again.

Firstly, as I've already mentioned imo you need to follow your own advice first, just a suggestion. Here it is below:
"Perhaps implications such as those might not be assumed if you didn't come across in the way that you did".
Secondly, my supposed misrepresentation isn't only "my issue" as there were other posters in this thread that expressed discontent with your "advisory post". Finally, I don't think I got things wrong. In fact, as I've suggested in my previous post your latest baseless attribution of some kind of a success to your OP imo supports my assertion that it was a chest-beating attempt. If you don't like being called out on it, well I'll go on and quote you again in this case, "too bad".

Because it's far more complex than an "either/or" scenario. A style that might not work in one scenario might work very well in another. That's why it's a difference.

I perfectly understand that it is far more complex, that is why your answer would be much more clearer if would be able to provide more context/information or examples of some sort. I'm talking about the specific issues in the particular context that I've already mentioned several times in this thread.

Fallen.

 

[TurtleDude]

You are certainly full of yourself

There is always more than one way to look at occurrences like this

But since you wrote a thesis on the subject and therefore know it all why dont you tell us what caused her death?

WTF? I like reading his views on this tragic subject.

 

[joG]

Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?

I would have classified counseling the parents on how to socialise their child to handle internet mobbing as normal procedure and not have associated it with mental problems.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Firstly, as I've already mentioned imo you need to follow your own advice first, just a suggestion. Here it is below:
"Perhaps implications such as those might not be assumed if you didn't come across in the way that you did".
Secondly, my supposed misrepresentation isn't only "my issue" as there were other posters in this thread that expressed discontent with your "advisory post". Finally, I don't think I got things wrong. In fact, as I've suggested in my previous post your latest baseless attribution of some kind of a success to your OP imo supports my assertion that it was a chest-beating attempt. If you don't like being called out on it, well I'll go on and quote you again in this case, "too bad".

Other than you and one poster who came here to troll me, no one complained. Hence, it's your problem. Don't like it? Too bad.

I perfectly understand that it is far more complex, that is why your answer would be much more clearer if would be able to provide more context/information or examples of some sort. I'm talking about the specific issues in the particular context that I've already mentioned several times in this thread.

Fallen.

No, you've asked a question and I've answered it, clearly. If you don't like the answer, again, that's your problem.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I would have classified counseling the parents on how to socialise their child to handle internet mobbing as normal procedure and not have associated it with mental problems.

I would agree, IF there are not associated mental health issues. Depends on the situation.

 

[Fallenangel]

Other than you and one poster who came here to troll me, no one complained. Hence, it's your problem. Don't like it? Too bad

I've seen at least two that expressed discontent and I haven't even went through all the posts in this thread, your attempts to brush-off any such instances as mere "trolling" don't hold water, as they are baseless as far as I am aware.

No, you've asked a question and I've answered it, clearly. If you don't like the answer, again, that's your problem.

Making an assertion e.g. "Nope. Not at all. It's more of a sign of either a mental health issue, a difficulty with self-perception, or challenges in social situations. It's not a weakness but a difference." without any supporting evidence or explanation isn't an answer, it is just a claim you've made hoping that nobody will challenge you further on the topic.

Unfortunately for you, I have enough experience and scientific background to not trust a "no it isn't" answer from some supposed expert online (even if his supposed field of expertise is vastly different from my own), so if you don't like your superficial assertions being probed further and challenged, too bad.


Fallen.

 

[TheGoverness]

WTF? I like reading his views on this tragic subject.

Considering he knows what he's talking about.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I've seen at least two that expressed discontent and I haven't even went through all the posts in this thread, your attempts to brush-off any such instances as mere "trolling" don't hold water, as they are baseless as far as I am aware.

You and a troll. That's it. The problem here is with you, not me. You tried to create an issue and failed miserably. I suppose you must be used to that.

Making an assertion e.g. "Nope. Not at all. It's more of a sign of either a mental health issue, a difficulty with self-perception, or challenges in social situations. It's not a weakness but a difference." without any supporting evidence or explanation isn't an answer, it is just a claim you've made hoping that nobody will challenge you further on the topic.

Unfortunately for you, I have enough experience and scientific background to not trust a "no it isn't" answer from some supposed expert online (even if his supposed field of expertise is vastly different from my own), so if you don't like your superficial assertions being probed further and challenged, too bad.


Fallen.

Apparently, you don't have much experience in the mental health field. My explanation was clear and complete. You don't like it. Not my problem. I am uninterested in educating you on this issue, considering you've been wrong from the beginning and seem to have no desire to correct yourself.

 

[Fallenangel]

You and a troll. That's it. The problem here is with you, not me. You tried to create an issue and failed miserably. I suppose you must be used to that.

Apparently, you don't have much experience in the mental health field. My explanation was clear and complete. You don't like it. Not my problem. I am uninterested in educating you on this issue, considering you've been wrong from the beginning and seem to have no desire to correct yourself.

Yet again you're baselessly attributing blame, ascribing supposed failure and ignoring anything that contradicts your view point, this unfortunate trait seems to permeate throughout most of your posts. Moreover, it seems that you got used to not being challenged on what you say or do around here, so it must be new for you to not get unanimous praise for a "no it isn't" kind of response, too bad for you and your ego. If you are unable or unwilling to provide any explanations whenever someone probes further into your "it is cause I say so" claims, it probably would've been better for you to either declare that at the begging of any such exchange or not to make those claims at all.


Fallen.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Yet again you're baselessly attributing blame, ascribing supposed failure and ignoring anything that contradicts your view point, this unfortunate trait seems to permeate throughout most of your posts. Moreover, it seems that you got used to not being challenged on what you say or do around here, so it must be new for you to not get unanimous praise for a "no it isn't" kind of response, too bad for you and your ego. If you are unable or unwilling to provide any explanations whenever someone probes further into your "it is cause I say so" claims, it probably would've been better for you to either declare that at the begging of any such exchange or not to make those claims at all.


Fallen.

Apparently you attempted to confront me on my first post in the thread. Your confrontation completely failed as did your overgeneralization of how others also saw my post. You also either didn't understand my responses to your questions, didn't like those response, or are unaccustomed to having your positions rather easily bunted back at you. If you are unable to understand explanations or are unwilling to accept that things like your original premise to my posting has been shown to be completely false, it might be a good idea to rethink your approach and not put your foot in your mouth without being willing to dislodge it when shown to be wrong.

 

[Fallenangel]

Apparently you attempted to confront me on my first post in the thread. Your confrontation completely failed as did your overgeneralization of how others also saw my post. You also either didn't understand my responses to your questions, didn't like those response, or are unaccustomed to having your positions rather easily bunted back at you. If you are unable to understand explanations or are unwilling to accept that things like your original premise to my posting has been shown to be completely false, it might be a good idea to rethink your approach and not put your foot in your mouth without being willing to dislodge it when shown to be wrong.

It must be nice to live in a world where you can attribute baseless blame, single-handedely deem something as a success or a failure... when in fact, you are simply ignoring reality and characterising anything that doesn't fit with it as trolling or whatever another epithet you chose to use at the time. Moreover, no matter how many times you would want to repeat it to yourself, assertions similar in nature to "it is cause I said so" do not constitute neither an answer nor an explanation in any kind of discussion online or irl. Not only that you haven't shown anything to be false or wrong, as a large portion of your replies consisted of either evasion from simple questions or extremely self-righteous opinions but throughout a number of your gloating posts you've managed to provide further backing to my initial assertion regarding the nature of your supposed "advisory post". It is probably extremely difficult for you, but next time, when you're attempting to showcase your supposed expertise you probably should be prepared to the notion that multiple people will not simply mindlessly take the opinions that you produce on the pages of DP as gospel.

Fallen.