Teen who was relentlessly bullied kills herself in front of her family

[CaptainCourtesy]

Good points. This is known to the parents, though. I would have thought they would get counseling.

In this day and age, there is still a stigma, with some, towards mental health counseling.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

So, your advice may seem meaningless to others and its perception by others is meaningless to you...yeap seems indeed like it was a cheap chest-beating attempt on the pages of DP, but hey we've already put that out of the way, let's move on.

No, I already explained why I said what I did. And it worked well as no one, as yet, has presented the idiotic weakness argument.

Seems to me like the the things you've listed here might be the cause of problems with social interactions ans self-esteem issues, not only signs, but what is the difference between "difference" and "weakness"?

People interact differently. Those differences are not necessarily weakness, but in context can either benefit or not benefit the individual. They are differences from how others might interact and have different benefits.

Also, I'm not a mind reader, I can only read what you've written in your posts. Hence, I've asked whether it is possible to characterise issues like low self-esteem for instance as "social weaknesses", which can in turn cause or lead to suicide.

And I've answered your question, and clarified.

Actually, I did not take anything out of context, re-read what I've written.

Actually, you did and I already described how.

I will probably not follow your "advice" to change my "approach to people" to get the kind of responses that you might want me to get, because as we've just established already people can perceive posts in various ways.
Btw I thought that we've also just established that how others perceive ones posts of advice is meaningless?!?

Fallen.

No, actually we didn't establish that how others perceive ones posts of advice is meaningless. Whether it is or not is contingent on that person themselves. Do you care how you are coming across? If you do, if you want people to perceive you in a certain way, then you do and it's not meaningless. The opposite may also be true. If you don't care, that's fine, but remember that responses you get may be based on how you present, and if you don't care, your complaints, if they occur, would also be meaningless.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

It's a sign, especially in a case like this, of ignored and untreated underlying mental illnesses, and that is on the family for not acting sooner. A sad tragedy all around.

I agree about the mental illness issue. Suicide doesn't happen in a vacuum, nor does it happen spontaneously. In general, the idea has been brewing for a while as has the individual's depression. It is possible that a kid could hide this kind of pain from their parents. Unlikely, but possible. But in general, I also agree that the parents should have acted with some psychological counseling.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I don't think kids are really capable of processing all the things they are exposed to via the internet these days. Hell, I don't think most adults can handle it. It may even be borderline child abuse to leave it go unchecked.

1. You can't stop people from being mean, nor can you make a law that wouldn't infringe on free speech.

2. She should have been forcibly unplugged from the internet, especially social media, and enrolled into extra curricular activities to get her out and about doing something productive.

If you leave a child to wallow in their room over mean stuff said to them at school and then being exposed to more of it on social media, it's a toxic mix.

Why Steve Jobs Didn’t Let His Kids Use iPads (And Why You Shouldn’t Either)

Just wanted to highlight what I placed in bold. A very insightful and on target statement that adults often forget. It's overstimulating for kids who's brains aren't necessarily developed enough to handle that overstimulation. It's hard enough for adults, too.

 

[Your Star]

To comment on the thought that one can just, "shut it off."

You can't really do that without isolating yourself from everybody. It's like, throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The social lives of people who grew up with the internet are intertwined with the internet. It's not as simple as just turning things off and the problem goes away. What happens over the web has real life consequences, obviously, but the rumors, and bullying can spread to the real world, and in a very real sense, when you've always had the internet, you have no real understanding of how to live without it.

 

[Fallenangel]

No, I already explained why I said what I did. And it worked well as no one, as yet, has presented the idiotic weakness argument.

Yet, your explaination does not contradict the possibility of your post being a cheap ches-beating attempt, both options can be and are probably true imo.
Moreover, this last claim above fits nicely with my suggestion regarding the nature of your "post of advice", as you've just also baselessly attributed some "success" to it. When in fact, it is quite possible that nobody presented that "idiotic argument" simply due to its "idiotic" nature, rather than due to your supposed piece of advice.

People interact differently. Those differences are not necessarily weakness, but in context can either benefit or not benefit the individual. They are differences from how others might interact and have different benefits.

That is why I've asked specifically about self-esteem issues and issues with social interaction being "social weaknesses" in the specific context of living and operating in our highly open environment that relies heavily on interpersonal communication online or irl. How is not being able to effectively interact with your surrounding in our age is a mere difference rather than a weakness?

And I've answered your question, and clarified.
Actually, you did and I already described how.

No, actually we didn't establish that how others perceive ones posts of advice is meaningless. Whether it is or not is contingent on that person themselves. Do you care how you are coming across? If you do, if you want people to perceive you in a certain way, then you do and it's not meaningless. The opposite may also be true. If you don't care, that's fine, but remember that responses you get may be based on how you present, and if you don't care, your complaints, if they occur, would also be meaningless.

Here is my advice then, invest more time in introducing more context and detail to your future "posts of advice", so people would be able to perceive your posts in the way you want them to perceive those posts. Otherwise, people will rightfully continue to question your motives and express discontent, even if you render any such opinions as meaningless.

Fallen.

 

[Mason66]

It's very difficult to not agree with you, but I think it also points to exactly how bad this situation had become.
Mental illness, depression, and despair erode rational thinking.

It tells me there was no communication with anybody in her family and that is the parents failure.

If you see you child going through a hard time, you do not let them handle it by themselves.

If the parents had to turn off the internet into the house and take away her phone, then that is what they should have done.

Parents want to be friends to their kids instead of being tough and doing what needs to be done.

 

[Dragonfly]

To comment on the thought that one can just, "shut it off."

You can't really do that without isolating yourself from everybody. It's like, throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The social lives of people who grew up with the internet are intertwined with the internet. It's not as simple as just turning things off and the problem goes away. What happens over the web has real life consequences, obviously, but the rumors, and bullying can spread to the real world, and in a very real sense, when you've always had the internet, you have no real understanding of how to live without it.

Isn't it possible though that isolation might be the saving grace of somebody who's getting overwhelmed by outside influences?

Reading books.
Listening to music.
Watching movies.
Painting.
Drawing.
Playing board games.
Finding a hobby that doesn't require internet isn't difficult.
Martial arts.
Exercising.

Shutting off the internet might be saving the kids life. Yeah, it might be difficult at first, but it could be life or death.

 

[Dragonfly]

It tells me there was no communication with anybody in her family and that is the parents failure.

You can't completely lay all the blame on the parents. You don't know what they tried or didn't try. Kids can be very good at hiding all kinds of things.

I wouldn't instantly make that leap without a great deal more information.

 

[SheWolf]

Bullied teen kills herself in front of her family - CNN.com





Cyber bullying. A modern day issue. Awful. Disgusting. Tragic.

Can we, or should we hold people accountable when something of this nature happens?
Can assault charges be levied if it's just words on the internet?

Flip side of that is people don't have to be "on" the internet. You can turn off Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

I'm torn between anger at the kids who mercilessly tortured this girl, and just outright sadness that she felt her only way out was suicide.
Her family must be absolutely devastated having watched her pull the trigger.

I looked at her photos, and there was absolutely nothing wrong with her appearance. I think she was beautiful. I think we should press charges on people for bullying. Other countries have a crime for "inducement of another to commit suicide" or something like that.

 

[Fishking]

Just wanted to highlight what I placed in bold. A very insightful and on target statement that adults often forget. It's overstimulating for kids who's brains aren't necessarily developed enough to handle that overstimulation. It's hard enough for adults, too.

I know, right? I mean, look at how we act on here? We're a bunch of animals.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

I have a couple points I'd like to make on this issue, especially as to the types of complications that prevent loved ones from intervening or officials from offering help to the bullied and why punishing "bullies" is often very difficult.

The extent of bullying and its impact on the victim is largely hidden.

Consider a bullied student on a typical day. A couple people on the bus laugh at him and call him names. He gets his books knocked out of his hands between 1st and second period. In third period, someone steals his pencil from his desk. In fourth period, a larger boy hits him on the head with a soft rolled-up folder when the teacher is distracted. In fifth period, a girl calls him a "retard" when he bumps into her in the hall. In gym, a couple kids gang up on him in the locker room and force him to sniff their dirty underwear. Later, a couple girls give him mean looks as he's walking between classes. In science class, when the class chooses lab partners, no one is willing to work with him. At lunch, another kid pours chocolate milk in his mashed potatoes.

Other students and even teachers see this, sure, but most of these things are small and not a big deal, and no one except the bullied students is witness to all of these incidents. Even the ones doing the bullying don't know the extent of the harm being done. These types of things happen to everyone, and anyone should be able to shrug them off and go about their day. The bullied student however, is facing a constant barrage of assaults on his self-esteem and well-being. The cumulative effect of physical and emotional attacks and ostracization becomes psychologically devastating. And what recourse does he have? Demand the principal suspend kids for giving him dirty looks? Throw fists at everyone who crosses him and likely face punishments of his own?

The same is true online. The attacks usually come from multiple sources at different times. Rarely is this a coordinated effort. It's just kids taking pop shots at an easy target. The pain is being dished out intermittently in small doses from several sources, but the target is absorbing all of it constantly.

The "bullies" usually aren't stereotypical "bad apples." There will be a few actual bullies who stalk and attack a victim, but most of the punishment is being dished out by regular students at random intervals. One "bully" might have called the victim a name twice this year. Another may have taken a shot at him once or twice or joined in with a couple of others to make of fun of him a few times; mostly he just ignores the victim and doesn't have any particular ill feelings toward him, but every once in a while, he has a little fun at the bullied boys' expense. These "bullies" are really just normal kids in a culture where they can get away with that kind of behavior sometimes. Even the bullied kids themselves are usually guilty of the same sort of behavior.

But this only adds to the victims' hopelessness. He's under constant assault, and he never knows where it's going to come from. He navigates daily through a hostile environment where the authorities are unwilling and unable to protect him. He has no agency and very little recourse. The fear, animosity, and feelings of worthlessness build, and he faces them with little empathy or support. Everyone knows he's getting picked on, sure, but the incidents are all minor and inconsistent, and no one except the victim is privvy to the full extent of the abuse. It's death by a thousand cuts.

I realize I'm conflating physical bullying and cyberbullying, but I believe the core issues are the same. The problem is cultural. The only way to address it is through institutions that actively work against the culture of bullying. Punishing kids who post a mean message on SnapChat is a poor solution and just creates more victims. Singling out the bullied student for protection (or, worse, suspicion) will just reinforce his isolation. You need a broader approach that encourages bystanders to push back against bullying behavior when they see it and a specific protocol for bullying victims to get help.

Sadly, the Internet complicates this by broadening the bully culture beyond school grounds, but the core problem is still a culture withing the child's community (usually a school).

 

[poweRob]

Bullied teen kills herself in front of her family - CNN.com





Cyber bullying. A modern day issue. Awful. Disgusting. Tragic.

Can we, or should we hold people accountable when something of this nature happens?
Can assault charges be levied if it's just words on the internet?

Flip side of that is people don't have to be "on" the internet. You can turn off Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

I'm torn between anger at the kids who mercilessly tortured this girl, and just outright sadness that she felt her only way out was suicide.
Her family must be absolutely devastated having watched her pull the trigger.

Bullying has always been around but I couldn't imagine the intense pressure that compounds the bullying via social networking. Gossip whoring back in my day was a slow process that would make its rounds in certain circles. Now the scope is spreading rumors, gossip and negativity is the whole school, town and worlds. Anyone who wants to look at a facebook page basically. This is sad and I feel for her and her family.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Teen boys die of suicide at three times the rate of teen girls, so why do these constant stories of dead bullied teens almost always talk about girls?

It is because they are more sympathetic, because they are not nasty males, the second class gender?

I also note that ofttimes the bullied also bully others, they are both victims and abusers.

What she did to her family was extremely aggressive.

Not. Cool.

 

[joG]

In this day and age, there is still a stigma, with some, towards mental health counseling.

I would have thought it fell under normal socialization procedure.

 

[Ontologuy]

I'm torn between anger at the kids who mercilessly tortured this girl, and just outright sadness that she felt her only way out was suicide.
Her family must be absolutely devastated having watched her pull the trigger.

There's an archetypal expectation within our inner child that our parents and family will protect us.

When they don't, anger can derive from that and even get transferred from that directed at the bullies to get directed at the parents .. and that "even my parents can't protect me so the bullies must be right" then gets internalized as guilt. The stage is thus set for tragic acting out.

I've had to deal with these psychologies frequently enough in clients, though never in association with this degree of tragedy.

This is truly sad.

 

[volsrock]

Bullied teen kills herself in front of her family - CNN.com





Cyber bullying. A modern day issue. Awful. Disgusting. Tragic.

Can we, or should we hold people accountable when something of this nature happens?
Can assault charges be levied if it's just words on the internet?

Flip side of that is people don't have to be "on" the internet. You can turn off Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

I'm torn between anger at the kids who mercilessly tortured this girl, and just outright sadness that she felt her only way out was suicide.
Her family must be absolutely devastated having watched her pull the trigger.

No the kid had NO FEELINGS for her family see her kill herself!



Nobody can “push” a person to commit suicide, since that is an entirely voluntary choice.

But I do believe social media is damaging our kids. They sit around all day texting, Pinteresting, Skyping, Snap Chatting, Instagramming, etc. and they never even talk to one another.

They really should call this stuff ANTI Social Media.

And this anti social behavior is destructive. Case in point is this kid who killed herself.



BTW, anyone figured out where she got the gun. I don't think it was from her snowflake daddy who did as his daughter ORDERED and TURNED AROUND so he wouldn't see her shoot herself.

 

[Hawkeye10]

There's an archetypal expectation within our inner child that our parents and family will protect us.

When they don't, anger can derive from that and even get transferred from that directed at the bullies to get directed at the parents .. and that "even my parents can't protect me so the bullies must be right" then gets internalized as guilt. The stage is thus set for tragic acting out.

I've had to deal with these psychologies frequently enough in clients, though never in association with this degree of tragedy.

This is truly sad.

You can not make the assumption that the parents knew anything close the the full story of how much trouble this girl was in....because maybe she never bothered to tell them. Her killing herself in front them them might be a pattern non communicative passive aggressiveness, which seems to be a epidemic with young females.

A good friend and colleague of 18-year-old Brandy Vela says the entire community is shaken up by her suicide.

“It’s overwhelming to even explain the amount of pain on this island,” Marnie Weinstein, referring to Galveston Island, Texas, tells PEOPLE. “It’s just such a tragedy.”
.
.
.
Weinstein wishes Vela had confided in her because she had experienced cyberbullying years ago.
.
.
.
Weinstein and Vela worked together at Landry’s restaurant in Galveston, Texas.

“Her uncles are the managers here,” she says. “We were all one big tight-knit family.”

Brittany Vela: Friend of Teenager Who Shot Herself In Front of Family Grieves

 

[volsrock]

“It’s hard when your daughter tells you to turn around. You feel helpless.”

I think I see the problem.

 

[Ontologuy]

You can not make the assumption that the parents knew anything close the the full story of how much trouble this girl was in....because maybe she never bothered to tell them. Her killing herself in front them them might be a pattern non communicative passive aggressiveness, which seems to be a epidemic with young females.

I didn't say that the parents "knew" anything. Re-read what I wrote -- it's not about what the parents know or don't know, it's about what our inner child archetypally expects whether the parents are knowledgeable or not.

Yes, non-communicative passive aggressive acting out does occur, sadly too often.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I didn't say that the parents "knew" anything. Re-read what I wrote -- it's not about what the parents know or don't know, it's about what our inner child archetypally expects whether the parents are knowledgeable or not.

Yes, non-communicative passive aggressive acting out does occur, sadly too often.

"They cant fix a problem they dont know about" surely is a life lesson that should be learned by the age of 8.

I am not feeling sympathetic towards your argument.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Yet, your explaination does not contradict the possibility of your post being a cheap ches-beating attempt, both options can be and are probably true imo.
Moreover, this last claim above fits nicely with my suggestion regarding the nature of your "post of advice", as you've just also baselessly attributed some "success" to it. When in fact, it is quite possible that nobody presented that "idiotic argument" simply due to its "idiotic" nature, rather than due to your supposed piece of advice.

I was clear about why I posted it. You didn't like that I did and misrepresented the reason. Firstly, I don't care whether you liked it or not. We have another discussion on a similar issue, I'll do it again. And secondly, your misrepresentation is your issue. I've shown it for what it was. Again, if you don't like that, too bad.

That is why I've asked specifically about self-esteem issues and issues with social interaction being "social weaknesses" in the specific context of living and operating in our highly open environment that relies heavily on interpersonal communication online or irl. How is not being able to effectively interact with your surrounding in our age is a mere difference rather than a weakness?

Because it's far more complex than an "either/or" scenario. A style that might not work in one scenario might work very well in another. That's why it's a difference.

Here is my advice then, invest more time in introducing more context and detail to your future "posts of advice", so people would be able to perceive your posts in the way you want them to perceive those posts. Otherwise, people will rightfully continue to question your motives and express discontent, even if you render any such opinions as meaningless.

Fallen.

The issue wasn't my advice. The issue was your understanding of it. You should probably work on that so you don't get things so wrong, again.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I would have thought it fell under normal socialization procedure.

Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?

 

[truthatallcost]

Any move to limit free speech on the internet is a step in the wrong directing IMO. Law enforcement should spend time investigating death threats, not fat jokes.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Any move to limit free speech on the internet is a step in the wrong directing IMO. Law enforcement should spend time investigating death threats, not fat jokes.

Calling this "fat jokes" is a GROSS misrepresentation of what happened and massively underestimates the impact of what happened to this girl.