Systemic Racism

[X Factor]

Exactly who said racist thought is a crime?

I thought what someone actually thinks is wholly irrelevant to the question of whether they're guilty of being racists or not. You know, that "unconscious racism" you mentioned earlier. Now that I think about it it, unconscious people can be real dickheads, can't they? Once I asked an unconscious person what the time was and he just flat out ignored me. Dickhead, I say.

 

[vegas giants]

I thought what someone actually thinks is wholly irrelevant to the question of whether they're guilty of being racists or not. You know, that "unconscious racism" you mentioned earlier. Now that I think about it it, unconscious people can be real dickheads, can't they? Once I asked an unconscious person what the time was and he just flat out ignored me. Dickhead, I say.

Actually unconscious thought is still a thought. You are just not aware of it. That is the definition of unconscious

 

[Bodi]

My argument is entirely solid. You're inventing definitions, inventing arguments for others and generally not having a clue what you're talking about.

Next time look up the words in your title.

Great counter argument. :lol:

 

[ecofarm]

Great counter argument. :lol:

It's not my fault that you have no idea what you're talking about. I addressed your title and OP in my first post herein. Since then, you've been spewing crap that is just wrong.

You invent definitions for terms that you don't understand and then get all pissy when people don't agree with the little fantasy world you create. That you then rely on semantic BS tells me you have some clue that you're totally off base.

 

[Removable Mind]

Yes it is. That is the type of institutional racism that I am arguing against.

Hi, Bodhi...

Weaving webs?

https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/293575-systemic-racism-9.html#post1067520829

 

[Bodi]

It's not my fault that you have no idea what you're talking about. I addressed your title and OP in my first post herein. Since then, you've been spewing crap that is just wrong.

You invent definitions for terms that you don't understand and then get all pissy when people don't agree with the little fantasy world you create. That you then rely on semantic BS tells me you have some clue that you're totally off base.

If you had an argument you would show where I am incorrect instead of just saying it... but you are unable to debate this, as evidenced by past discussions.

 

[Nilly]

 

[Caine]

I haven't voted yet because I am not totally sure about the definition of "systemic racism".

Do I believe there our society or government has official policies to favor whites over others? No, I do not. Do I believe some of our systems do favor whites over others? Yes, I do. For example, blacks and latinos are treated worse than whites by our criminal justice system for the same crimes. There is nothing legislative or on paper that promotes this bias, but I think it is the cumulative, usually subconscious, bias of all the humans that make up our criminla justice system, from the police, to the prossecutors and defense attorneys, to the judges and jury.

And then in the private sector that same subconscious bias also exists. The exact same resumes are treated differently if the name is a white sounding name or it is a black sounding name. And it exists in the consumer base. Ads for products with black models tend to yield less sales than ads with white models.

So, does that mean I believe in "systemic racism"? Or is society-wide cumulative subconscious bias not the same as systemic racism? I haven't a clue.

So.... you are essentially saying that Ben Shaprio mocks regularly about systemic racism...

That it is just out there... in the ether.... floating around.... and nothing can be done about it.

 

[JANFU]

Systemic Racism

We can all agree that black people, as a group, can not hold power over white people due to the fact that they are outnumbered 71% to 13%.

That does not mean that white people, just because they are the majority, DO run a system of racism against black people and minorities...

The argument that the United States is a society of systemic racism is retarded. The counter to that argument is that black people can be racist and those arging systemic racism counter back that blacks can't do that because they do not have the majority power. They just claim that white people and the system that they set up is racist by design. Really nice... just accuse 200 million people of being racist.

What is ironic is that this is also a racist argument... that white people are racist just because they are white.

Soo, is the USA a society of systemic racism and if you think yes or no... WHY?

Pick the article you wish, systemic racism in the US justice system

https://www.google.ca/search?q=raci...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=FGKTWaWeKMSMjwT9hJeoDA

 

[Nilly]

Why can't someone subconsciously not be something, if they can subconsciously be that thing? Isn't it beyond their control?

It is beyond their control yes.

Even white people who acknowledge systemic racism exist benefit from it, it's most certainly beyond their control.

 

[Caine]

Yes, the U.S. has a system of racism. It doesn't need to be intentional. As exemplified the fact that Blacks get charged more frequently than whites without being given similar plea deals, are convicted at higher rates than Whites, and when convicted receive harsher sentences.

And...... this is the cause of racism or could there be other factors involved?

That is the problem with this debate, there seems to be no effort to look at the individual cases (because the Criminal Justice system looks at the facts and circumstances of each individual case, not just <Crime, Race>) and make any effort to determine the root cause of this disparity.

A Disparity does not automatically = Racism.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

So.... you are essentially saying that Ben Shaprio mocks regularly about systemic racism...

That it is just out there... in the ether.... floating around.... and nothing can be done about it.

If by "ether" you mean our brains. And I'm not saying nothing can be done, just that it is very difficult.

And as I said, I don't know if "systemic racism" is the proper word or not. I know what the end result is, but I don't claim to know what to label it.

 

[Caine]

I have wondered similar things. Part of the difference I have seen is the path taken to get here. Blacks born in Africa who immigrate here end up starting businesses and being as industrial as others. Immigration acts as a filter. Only the most motivated come here. So they are already ahead of the bell curve, so that gives them that extra innate legup to help them overcome any societal bias that may exist.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the blacks decended from slaves and the Native Americans on the reservations have grown into the most impoverished elements of our society. People who are born here are average. People who immigrate here are above average. If there is a societal bias in favor of whites, and I would argue Asians, then average whites and Asians will still find it easy to succeed. And the above average members of the other groups can also succeed. But the average blacks and Native Americans are going to have a harder time overcoming that bias, and as a result fewer will succeed.

The more societal bias there is against you, the more exceptional you have to be to succeed. And when you apply that fact to large populations, it results in the group with less societal bias against it having more success.

Sorry if that was too incoherent to make sense of. I'm tired.

So if the racism is systemic, why do immigrated blacks seem to be more successful? Shouldn't they also be subject of these "unconscious racism" that holds people down?

 

[Bodi]

Pick the article you wish, systemic racism in the US justice system

https://www.google.ca/search?q=raci...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=FGKTWaWeKMSMjwT9hJeoDA

That isn't evidence that the system is racist.

That is evidence, some of it at least, that blacks might and sometimes do get longer sentences or stopped more, for example. But again, that is not evidence of racism. There are many MANY other variables that must be factored in.

 

[Bodi]

View attachment 67221351

What a racist chart... :roll:

 

[JANFU]

That isn't evidence that the system is racist.

That is evidence, some of it at least, that blacks might and sometimes do get longer sentences or stopped more, for example. But again, that is not evidence of racism. There are many MANY other variables that must be factored in.

Appears that study after study has demonstrated it. Including receiving the DP in similar cases where a white man is sentenced to life.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

So if the racism is systemic, why do immigrated blacks seem to be more successful? Shouldn't they also be subject of these "unconscious racism" that holds people down?

Long thread, I know. I explained my personal hypothesis of that in post 25 of this thread.

 

[Bodi]

Appears that study after study has demonstrated it. Including receiving the DP in similar cases where a white man is sentenced to life.

Studies demonstrate that there are differences... not why.

I bet there are white men who got the death penalty for the same crime that a different white man got life for as well... but we don't hear about those cases because it doesn't fit the agenda. I bet poor white people get longer sentences than rich white people.

 

[JANFU]

Studies demonstrate that there are differences... not why.

I bet there are white men who got the death penalty for the same crime that a different white man got life for as well... but we don't hear about those cases because it doesn't fit the agenda. I bet poor white people get longer sentences than rich white people.

So you did not bother to even check any links, but rely on IMHO and uneducated view on this.
I have over the years read numerous studies on this, and to tell you the truth, I ain't here to educate you.
Take the time and read up on it. Get away from a preconceived opinion and go in with an open mind.

 

[Caine]

What a racist chart... :roll:

No ****.

That chart is full of the "Bigotry of low expectations".

 

[Sabre]

Like all polls, in my opinion, worthless - already starts with an implied premise.

 

[Bodi]

So you did not bother to even check any links, but rely on IMHO and uneducated view on this.
I have over the years read numerous studies on this, and to tell you the truth, I ain't here to educate you.
Take the time and read up on it. Get away from a preconceived opinion and go in with an open mind.

I thoroughly read the Huffington one and have read up on this before. You are free to feel as superior as you wish though.

 

[JANFU]

I thoroughly read the Huffington one and have read up on this before. You are free to feel as superior as you wish though.

Nope- not superior, a differing view based upon evidence. And I would not use HP as a source, I would use studies, impartial studies.

 

[Bodi]

Nope- not superior, a differing view based upon evidence. And I would not use HP as a source, I would use studies, impartial studies.

Let me get this straight... you say I have an uneducated view with my preconceived opinion and that you are not here to educate me. You also state that I should not use Huffington Post as a source even thought that is the first link that you provided me with when you told me to pick ANY link to back your argument. https://www.google.ca/search?q=raci...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=FGKTWaWeKMSMjwT9hJeoDA You also linked me to an opinion piece AND an article from England. That is the best one... to back up your argument that the United States Justice System is racist you use an article written from ENGLAND.

That about sum it up?

 

[The Mark]

Systemic Racism

We can all agree that black people, as a group, can not hold power over white people due to the fact that they are outnumbered 71% to 13%.

That does not mean that white people, just because they are the majority, DO run a system of racism against black people and minorities...

The argument that the United States is a society of systemic racism is retarded. The counter to that argument is that black people can be racist and those arging systemic racism counter back that blacks can't do that because they do not have the majority power. They just claim that white people and the system that they set up is racist by design. Really nice... just accuse 200 million people of being racist.

What is ironic is that this is also a racist argument... that white people are racist just because they are white.

Soo, is the USA a society of systemic racism and if you think yes or no... WHY?

I don't think that's systemic racism.

My understanding of systemic racism is that now or in the past, policies and actions by government and others have resulted in a situation wherein if you're white, you are more likely to start from a higher economic starting point. I'm talking decades or even century old decisions whose results are still felt, if less so now.

In some areas, minorities are automatically considered more dangerous by police and civilians.
Etc.

That kind of thing means the entire system (thus systemic) has minorities in a state of disadvantage.

Not that the system is currently racist, although that IS probably the case, in some areas.
Especially when police consider minorities more likely to be criminals, by default, and treat them differently than they do white people. Which DOES happen, in some areas of the country.