Sweden was right, latest numbers from there

[eman623]

A year from now, Sweden will have a relatively robust economy and a high death rate. Other countries in the EU will also have a high death rate and devastated economies.

 

[vegas giants]

A year from now, Sweden will have a relatively robust economy and a high death rate. Other countries in the EU will also have a high death rate and devastated economies.

Who will win the superbowl?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Are you aware that Global Research provides conspiracy theory articles and pseudo-science meant for anti-vaccination believers? Quite the reputable source you chose.

For Thoreau that is not a bug, it's a feature.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As bad as the numbers in Sweden were, it appears they "flattened" the curve. Our approach hasn't, and we have one of the highest death rates in the world. And Sweden's economy was not hit as hard because they did not shut down.

At the cost of killing off their vulnerable...all vulnerable, youth, elderly, disabled, all high risk categories.

 

[Xilnik]

For Thoreau that is not a bug, it's a feature.

Ah, I have trouble keeping track of who the conspiracy theorists are. There are indications that even The President has fallen down that rabbit hole.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Ah, I have trouble keeping track of who the conspiracy theorists are. There are indications that even The President has fallen down that rabbit hole.

Fell down that rabbit hole long before he even considered running for POTUS
.

 

[Xilnik]

Fell down that rabbit hole long before he even considered running for POTUS
.

True. I forgot the birther theories did originate there.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Fine - so the claim is Sweden did everything right because THEY ARE NOT WORSE THAN BELGIUM!!!!! Sweden's NOT THE WORST!! Sweden's NOT THE WORST!! Sweden is only 6th worst of all countries on the planet!! WIN!!!

And Belgium and Sweden aren't at all similar. Population density - Belgium: 975/sq mile, Sweden: 57/sq mile. It's like comparing NYC to Bozeman, Montana. And if you want to include Belgium in the comparison, then you also need to account for Finland and Norway, between which Sweden is sandwiched and who do have comparable population densities.

Bottom line is we'll know some time in 2021 which approach worked out best. What we can't say in August 2020 is that Sweden's approach was the best. They have more deaths per capita, in a small, sparsely populated country, than just about any country on the planet - only 5 did worse and that top group, including Belgium (which also very aggressively counted deaths many suspicious deaths as "COVID" deaths) are pretty indistinguishable.

Yep. I am keen on seeing the post pandemic reports that really go into the details on the responses and their effectiveness. Right now we're still in it, so we'll need more time for a balanced analysis. To your point though, it is curious that a country like Sweden would have such a high rate considering they don't have some of the issues other European nations do (high population density, higher income inequality etc.).

 

[Luce]

Are you aware that Global Research provides conspiracy theory articles and pseudo-science meant for anti-vaccination believers? Quite the reputable source you chose.

Shhh. He's on a roll.

 

[Thoreau72]

They killed a lot of people though

A lot of already sick people in nursing homes died, just as happened here.

 

[Thoreau72]

Are you aware that Global Research provides conspiracy theory articles and pseudo-science meant for anti-vaccination believers? Quite the reputable source you chose.

I am aware that when a person would rather not discuss matters of substance, they assassinate the messenger of those matters of substance.

I am aware that shooting the messenger is an old human ploy when the message itself makes the shooter uncomfortable. And as Socrates noted, when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the user.

Yes, I am aware that Global Research is as frowned upon by the establishment media as Julian Assange is. Telling the truth, printing or otherwise publishing the truth in a time of universal deception is a radical act.

Yes, I'm aware of all that. That's why I started the thread.

 

[Thoreau72]

Trusting politicians with your health rather than doctors and science.

Seems smart.

That's what we do in this country. I don't think it's smart at all to have career bureaucrats, unelected individuals with an agenda, making "guidelines" that have the force of law.

I think it's dumb as hell, but that's what we have.

 

[Xilnik]

I am aware that when a person would rather not discuss matters of substance, they assassinate the messenger of those matters of substance.

I am aware that shooting the messenger is an old human ploy when the message itself makes the shooter uncomfortable. And as Socrates noted, when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the user.

Yes, I am aware that Global Research is as frowned upon by the establishment media as Julian Assange is. Telling the truth, printing or otherwise publishing the truth in a time of universal deception is a radical act.

Yes, I'm aware of all that. That's why I started the thread.

Fascinating. You even defend articles that appeal to ignorance. Carry on. opcorn:

 

[Kreton]

That's what we do in this country. I don't think it's smart at all to have career bureaucrats, unelected individuals with an agenda, making "guidelines" that have the force of law.

I think it's dumb as hell, but that's what we have.

Yet you take medical advice from politicians rather than doctors and scientists. That may be a sign that you are far to politicized.

 

[Mongidig]

A lot of already sick people in nursing homes died, just as happened here.

Had they not failed with the nursing homes we would be having a completely different story about how Sweden did.

It's too early too know for sure if their model was a success or not. It's quite possible a year from now other countries might catch up in deaths.

 

[Quag]

I am aware that when a person would rather not discuss matters of substance, they assassinate the messenger of those matters of substance.

I am aware that shooting the messenger is an old human ploy when the message itself makes the shooter uncomfortable. And as Socrates noted, when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the user.

Yes, I am aware that Global Research is as frowned upon by the establishment media as Julian Assange is. Telling the truth, printing or otherwise publishing the truth in a time of universal deception is a radical act.

Yes, I'm aware of all that. That's why I started the thread.

There is no substance to your CT crap.

 

[vegas giants]

A lot of already sick people in nursing homes died, just as happened here.

Yeah even they admit they got it wrong and killed too many people

 

[Thoreau72]

Yet you take medical advice from politicians rather than doctors and scientists. That may be a sign that you are far to politicized.

Where did I say I take medical advice from politicians? Are you hallucinating, or only making things up?

 

[Thoreau72]

Had they not failed with the nursing homes we would be having a completely different story about how Sweden did.

It's too early too know for sure if their model was a success or not. It's quite possible a year from now other countries might catch up in deaths.

The number of deaths is not really a meaningful number. The quality of life for those still living is a very meaningful number, and that is where Sweden excels.

The Swedish model has been successful already today. A year from now it will be more successful.

 

[swing_voter]

France, UK, Chile, Canada, Germany and many more had zero deaths yesterday.

Sweden is one of many, they killed a lot of their citizens for nothing.


Coronavirus Update (Live): 20,876,201 Cases and 748,392 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

 

[dairyair]

Yes, because being in the elite, worst in the world club for deaths per million (Sweden is 6th worst!! Yeah Sweden!!), and 10x more per capita deaths than their next door neighbors Finland and Norway clearly prove they did it all right.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 20,876,201 Cases and 748,392 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
8th in death rate by above link.

Funny how the whole world was wrong. And only Sweden was right.
But I'm not buying it.

It depends on population density, IMO.

Rural States in USA didn't do much to combat virus and fared just fine. But dense cities, not so much. They have it bad.

 

[dairyair]

I think we simply don't have all of the right information yet to know what the right approach is. TBF, Sweden is more like a large state in the US rather than thinking of it as another country. NY and other states in proximity had the higher rates at first and now they are down.

But we have the double whammy of both high death rate and economic calamity. We ****ed everything up.

The only thing gov'ts shut down were schools, restaurants and bars.
And in places where there's a lot of people, when those places opened, rates went up again.

In rural places, not much happened.

All the big gathering places, sports, Disney, etc, shut themselves down. Not the govt.

 

[JasperL]

Had they not failed with the nursing homes we would be having a completely different story about how Sweden did.

It's too early too know for sure if their model was a success or not. It's quite possible a year from now other countries might catch up in deaths.

The problem with nursing homes is when it's widespread in the community, then it's spread into nursing homes because the community works there, visits, makes deliveries, etc., and those residents have to visit ERs and hospitals and doctors offices, where COVID will be present. So it's nearly impossible to throw a protective bubble around just the vulnerable, if the virus isn't well contained in the rest of the population. As far as I've seen, show me an area with high case counts in the population as a whole, and you'll find an area where nursing homes and similar got hit hard.

It's also true that if you subtract nursing homes and deaths among the most vulnerable who are in closely packed communities where fast spread if an outbreak happens is most likely from any country's stats, you get a lot better looking results. Similarly, if we hadn't failed in densely packed NYC area, our stats look better! Or just zero out the nursing home deaths in NYC and surrounding - a lot better results!

 

[JasperL]

A lot of already sick people in nursing homes died, just as happened here.

So, we don't care about their deaths? **** the old! Let them DIE! Is that the message here?

It is true that if you adjust the death rate in Sweden and subtract out the demographic hit hardest in that country that their stats will look a lot better. If we don't consider any of our big cities, remove those deaths from the totals, and only look at rural areas, the U.S. did fantastic!! We're NUMBER 1 (if we only count where we didn't have big problems!!).

 

[JasperL]

That's what we do in this country. I don't think it's smart at all to have career bureaucrats, unelected individuals with an agenda, making "guidelines" that have the force of law.

I think it's dumb as hell, but that's what we have.

OK, so you don't like health experts proposing guidelines to control a pandemic. Who should develop those guidelines? We could poll YouTube personalities perhaps. I'm not sure. What would be the "smart" way for a country to develop guidelines to control a pandemic, in your view, if not consult with health experts, epidemiologists, etc.?