SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! (bring them home)

[thoracle]

I've commented on this until I was blue in the face. I must admit that I'm a bit winded from going in circles. You are looking for something concrete as if fighting Islamic terrorism will result in us deploying to a battlefield and facing an Islamic militant army and wiping them out. I wish it was that easy, but conventional warfare is a thing of the past. Civilians are more unsafe in war than ever. Not because we haven't spent billions of dollars on equipment, technology and training to prevent it, but because the enemy hides within their groups. They have learned to fight us through our moral weakness.

While most Islamic terrorism is culturally reactionary, another aspect of it is an impulse for change perverted by hopelessness. And terrorism is, finally, a brutal annoyance, but not a threat to America's survival, despite the grim events of 11 September. Osama bin Laden and his ilk may kill thousands of Americans through flamboyant terrorist acts, but their deeds reflect tormented desperation and fear, not confidence or any positive capability. Terrorists may be able to destroy, but they cannot build, either a skyscraper or a successful state. Destruction is the only thing of which they remain capable, and destruction is their true god. These men seek annihilation, not only ours, but their own. No entrances are left open to them, only the possibility of a dramatic exit. They are failed men from failed states in a failing civilization. Claiming to represent the oppressed (but enraged by the "liberal" behavior of most Palestinians), fundamentalist terrorists of so hardened a temper would not be contented, but only further inflamed, by any peace settlement that did not inaugurate their version of the Kingdom of God on earth. They are not fighting for a just peace, but for their peace--and even if they attained that peace, they would desire another. They are, in every sense, lost souls, the irredeemable. Their savagery is not a result of the failure of any peace process, but a reaction to their own personal failures and to the failures of their entire way of life. Behind these lost souls, their are literally millions and millions of Muslims that cheer their "martyrs" on. Thanks to the House of Saud this way of life is rampant throughout the region. Any kind of democratic society spread throughout the Middle East will ultimately curb terrorism. Hopefully, Iraq will prove to be that spark.

The terrorists have no doubt that they can ever defeat us. We are too powerful. Despite the thousands of personal tragedies from former terrorists attacks and the practical disruptions that resulted from the recent seizure of commercial aircrafts and the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the astonishing thing is how little permanent effect the terrorists ever have on daily life in the United States. There will be a scar left behind from 9/11, but the long-term effects of this grotesque tragedy ultimately strengthened America. It had reminded us of who we are, and then we rolled up our sleeves for the task ahead. But we have lost our way…again, because of political conflict and the misuse of words and the restricting of other words by our current President.

Gunny, you should get the hell off of this forum and write a book. I read this post at least 7 times and I am in awe. You, sir, have a gift for getting right to the god damn point that is rare in human history. Write a book, man, I'll buy it.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by GySgt:
Despite the thousands of personal tragedies from former terrorists attacks and the practical disruptions that resulted from the recent seizure of commercial aircrafts and the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the astonishing thing is how little permanent effect the terrorists ever have on daily life in the United States.

Are you nuts? What do you call TSA? What do you call the Patriot Act? What do you call the wedge that has divided this nation regarding the war in Iraq? These do not rest under the definition of "...little permanent...".

 

[MSgt]

Are you nuts? What do you call TSA? What do you call the Patriot Act? What do you call the wedge that has divided this nation regarding the war in Iraq? These do not rest under the definition of "...little permanent...".

How much has it affected you? Does life continue in the same manner as it did before? Has your daily routine changed in some profound way? Your flair for the dramatics of what you perceive as "permanent" is over done.

 

[MSgt]

Gunny, you should get the hell off of this forum and write a book. I read this post at least 7 times and I am in awe. You, sir, have a gift for getting right to the god damn point that is rare in human history. Write a book, man, I'll buy it.

Thank you. Funny you should say that about a book. I've actually been working on that.

 

[Caine]

How much has it affected you? Does life continue in the same manner as it did before? Has your daily routine changed in some profound way? Your flair for the dramatics of what you perceive as "permanent" is over done.

But dear sir!
What about the ignoramuses that use 9/11 as an excuse for everything stating..

The terrorist attacks on September 11th changed EVERYTHING!

Im so sick of hearing people use September 11th as the excuse of all excuses.

Right or Left,
Conservative or Liberal
Republican or Democrat

Or any of those other small faction parties either, and the media reporters too.

9/11 this..... 9/11 that....
the Media in the US and its government are doing the terrorists jobs for them.
They are spreading terror on the National News Networks and with this Terror Alert system.

 

[MSgt]

But dear sir!
What about the ignoramuses that use 9/11 as an excuse for everything stating..

The terrorist attacks on September 11th changed EVERYTHING!

Im so sick of hearing people use September 11th as the excuse of all excuses.

Right or Left,
Conservative or Liberal
Republican or Democrat

Or any of those other small faction parties either, and the media reporters too.

9/11 this..... 9/11 that....
the Media in the US and its government are doing the terrorists jobs for them.
They are spreading terror on the National News Networks and with this Terror Alert system.

But in 2008, we will have a new President. The key word used here was "permanent."

As far as 9/11 changing everything...no it didn't. It only took a rival political Party to tear down America's resolve to go the distance. This isn't the first time they've done this.

 

[Navy Pride]

But in 2008, we will have a new President. The key word used here was "permanent."

As far as 9/11 changing everything...no it didn't. It only took a rival political Party to tear down America's resolve to go the distance. This isn't the first time they've done this.

Sadly and it probably won't be the last my friend....

 

[Caine]

But in 2008, we will have a new President. The key word used here was "permanent."

As far as 9/11 changing everything...no it didn't. It only took a rival political Party to tear down America's resolve to go the distance. This isn't the first time they've done this.

I know it didn't change everything. But reguardless of political affiliation, every politician and even the public relations/media journalists use the phrase that 9/11 changed everything! ooh!! it changed everything!!!!.

And as far as our resolve to go the distance.
If going the distance means becomming Team America: World Police.
I'll stick with not going the distance.
Especially when our government can't seem to decide on why we went into Iraq to begin with, so they have to say.. "Hrph! He's a BAD MAN!"

As a veteran of the Iraq war, I would like to know I fought in that country to truly truly defend my own, not liberate someone elses, thats not what I joined the Army for. And I know some retard is going to say, "Hrpm! Well you swore to follow the orders of the president of the united states and officers appointed over you! So stop whining!" Again, if you read closer you will see that it says, that is not what I joined for. So, don't even think about saying some more stupid stuff there navy boy.

I know that one can "speculate" on whether Saddam had nuclear weapons or even weapons grade materals and was attempting to make nuclear weapons, since its obvious he had not "stockpile" of chemical weapons. Well, being as how we still have not found anything to support that, I have to argue that we should have allowed inspectors to finish thier job. One could also speculate that he sold it all away under weapons inspectors noses, again no evidence to support it so it might as well be like punishing a child for breaking a vase that you found broke when you woke up in the morning.

 

[MSgt]

I know it didn't change everything. But reguardless of political affiliation, every politician and even the public relations/media journalists use the phrase that 9/11 changed everything! ooh!! it changed everything!!!!.

And as far as our resolve to go the distance.
If going the distance means becomming Team America: World Police.
I'll stick with not going the distance.
Especially when our government can't seem to decide on why we went into Iraq to begin with, so they have to say.. "Hrph! He's a BAD MAN!"

As a veteran of the Iraq war, I would like to know I fought in that country to truly truly defend my own, not liberate someone elses, thats not what I joined the Army for. And I know some retard is going to say, "Hrpm! Well you swore to follow the orders of the president of the united states and officers appointed over you! So stop whining!" Again, if you read closer you will see that it says, that is not what I joined for. So, don't even think about saying some more stupid stuff there navy boy.

I know that one can "speculate" on whether Saddam had nuclear weapons or even weapons grade materals and was attempting to make nuclear weapons, since its obvious he had not "stockpile" of chemical weapons. Well, being as how we still have not found anything to support that, I have to argue that we should have allowed inspectors to finish thier job. One could also speculate that he sold it all away under weapons inspectors noses, again no evidence to support it so it might as well be like punishing a child for breaking a vase that you found broke when you woke up in the morning.

Going the distance means recognizing the threat that the Middle East is and doing something about it. It's about recognizing that thirty years of terrorist activity has come from every country in the Middle East. It's about recognizing that this a civilization that becomes more and more alligned to the "soldiers of Allah" with every new attack. It has nothing to do with "world police". This is what I'm talking about. The bad guy is not a bearded man with an AK. The enemy is their ideology and the oppressive state in which the Arab's perverted version of Islam maintains. AND if it wasn't for their barbaric society always at each others throats to kill each other over who believes in "Allah" more (Sunni vs. Shi'ites) and willing to selfishly sacrifice the world's oil and economy, then our foreign policy wouldn't be so involved.

Not going the distance will only result in never-ending terrorist attacks from these desperate fools.

 

[Caine]

Going the distance means recognizing the threat that the Middle East is and doing something about it. It's about recognizing that thirty years of terrorist activity has come from every country in the Middle East. It's about recognizing that this a civilization that becomes more and more alligned to the "soldiers of Allah" with every new attack. It has nothing to do with "world police". This is what I'm talking about. The bad guy is not a bearded man with an AK. The enemy is their ideology and their oppressive state in which the Arab's perverted version of Islam maintains.

Care to elaborate on your opinion that all Arabs have a perverted version of Islam? So you know this religion extremely well, better than they do?
These are EXTREMISTS. We have Christian Extremists here too. Thier extremists may be a bit more extreme than ours, but its no reason to classify all Arabs as having a perverted version of Islam.

Terrorist activity comes from everywhere, we will never end terrorism no matter what we do. Terrorism just isnt Al Queda, like the Media seems to think. Anything that is Terrorist is Al Queda to them. Anybody stop to think maybe these guys are just militant muslums who don't like the US in thier country? Im not saying they are, im not saying they aren't. I just love how people presume all terrorists are Al Queda and all bombings and otherwise "terrorist" activity is done by international terrorists.
Maybe I should go blow something up, I'll get away with it cause they will be looking for Arabs.

 

[MSgt]

Sure, I'll expound for the hundredth time...

Terrorism is bred from the perversion of their religion. Dictators and the House of Saud use Clerics to oppress their people. From this oppression comes the hate that is directed on to us and Israel - After all, that's what their religious leaders tell them. They wouldn't lie, because they speak for "Allah". Until the people in the Middle East have more control over their lives and are not subjected, or at least as susceptible, to the hate speech of their rich leaders, terrorism is going to just grow.

Every perverted cleric, dictator, royal family, and oppressed citizen of the Middle East had something to do with 9/11 and every terrorist attack since 1949 against America. These attacks exist because we choose to stand between Muslim nations and the one Jewish nation in existence. These attacks have escalated over the years until 9/11 woke civilians up. It would appear that some are still asleep and not willing to look at the ugly truth of our enemy. As long as we stand behind Israel, they cannot do any thing about it and they don't like it. As long as our foreign policy stands to keep Sunni and Shi'ites from disrupting the world's interests, they will not like it. Their temper tantrums involve the murder of our people. Arresting up the few direct terrorists and leaving the sources to walk the streets is like applying a band-aid to a heart attack. Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Momar Khadafi, and other figureheads of Islamic leadership, is not the problem. The problem is Middle Eastern Islam itself. They have been digressing back to the days before their prophet Muhammad and have been resorting to human sacrifice in the name of Islam. They are becoming a cult. No Islamic people outside of the Middle East practice and glorify such behavior. One day, after more ritual beheadings in the name of their god, I believe more people will come to realize this.

The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers and terrorist activity throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East. The Arab clerecs, especially, will remain guilty-in great part-for every murder committed by Muslim extremists from all over the region. They created the monsters who now dictate their version of Islam. In the Middle East, blaming others for every problem is the narcotic of choice.

To attack this problem, the citizens have to be less susceptible to force fed Cleric hate speech, which is used to control them by their oppressors. This means they have to be afforded the opportunities to view media outside of the propagandas Al-Jazeera so that they can realize that America is not the reason for their oppression and their 1st Century type life styles, but it is they themselves. Sparking change by attacking into the heartland of Islamic perversion and oppression is exactly what Iraq offered us. We've already won. The voting polls were proof. They have tasted a better life; and they know with stability it will improve. If one doubts that they can do it, one only has to look at the example set by the Kurds in the North.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by GySgt:
How much has it affected you? Does life continue in the same manner as it did before? Has your daily routine changed in some profound way? Your flair for the dramatics of what you perceive as "permanent" is over done.

Good comeback! Personnally, my life hasn't changed one bit. But these changes are long term and the jury is still out.

 

[MSgt]

Good comeback! Personnally, my life hasn't changed one bit. But these changes are long term and the jury is still out.

Thanks, but my goal was not for the "comeback", but to further explain my meaning.

 

[Deegan]

Sure, I'll expound for the hundredth time...

Terrorism is bred from the perversion of their religion. Dictators and the House of Saud use Clerics to oppress their people. From this oppression comes the hate that is directed on to us and Israel - After all, that's what their religious leaders tell them. They wouldn't lie, because they speak for "Allah". Until the people in the Middle East have more control over their lives and are not subjected, or at least as susceptible, to the hate speech of their rich leaders, terrorism is going to just grow.

Every perverted cleric, dictator, royal family, and oppressed citizen of the Middle East had something to do with 9/11 and every terrorist attack since 1949 against America. These attacks exist because we choose to stand between Muslim nations and the one Jewish nation in existence. These attacks have escalated over the years until 9/11 woke civilians up. It would appear that some are still asleep and not willing to look at the ugly truth of our enemy. As long as we stand behind Israel, they cannot do any thing about it and they don't like it. As long as our foreign policy stands to keep Sunni and Shi'ites from disrupting the world's interests, they will not like it. Their temper tantrums involve the murder of our people. Arresting up the few direct terrorists and leaving the sources to walk the streets is like applying a band-aid to a heart attack. Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Momar Khadafi, and other figureheads of Islamic leadership, is not the problem. The problem is Middle Eastern Islam itself. They have been digressing back to the days before their prophet Muhammad and have been resorting to human sacrifice in the name of Islam. They are becoming a cult. No Islamic people outside of the Middle East practice and glorify such behavior. One day, after more ritual beheadings in the name of their god, I believe more people will come to realize this.

The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers and terrorist activity throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East. The Arab clerecs, especially, will remain guilty-in great part-for every murder committed by Muslim extremists from all over the region. They created the monsters who now dictate their version of Islam. In the Middle East, blaming others for every problem is the narcotic of choice.

To attack this problem, the citizens have to be less susceptible to force fed Cleric hate speech, which is used to control them by their oppressors. This means they have to be afforded the opportunities to view media outside of the propagandas Al-Jazeera so that they can realize that America is not the reason for their oppression and their 1st Century type life styles, but it is they themselves. Sparking change by attacking into the heartland of Islamic perversion and oppression is exactly what Iraq offered us. We've already won. The voting polls were proof. They have tasted a better life; and they know with stability it will improve. If one doubts that they can do it, one only has to look at the example set by the Kurds in the North.

Brilliant, yet simple, I could not agree more, I only wonder why so many others can't see this?:clap:

 

[Caine]

Sure, I'll expound for the hundredth time...

Terrorism is bred from the perversion of their religion. Dictators and the House of Saud use Clerics to oppress their people. From this oppression comes the hate that is directed on to us and Israel - After all, that's what their religious leaders tell them. They wouldn't lie, because they speak for "Allah". Until the people in the Middle East have more control over their lives and are not subjected, or at least as susceptible, to the hate speech of their rich leaders, terrorism is going to just grow.

Every perverted cleric, dictator, royal family, and oppressed citizen of the Middle East had something to do with 9/11 and every terrorist attack since 1949 against America. These attacks exist because we choose to stand between Muslim nations and the one Jewish nation in existence. These attacks have escalated over the years until 9/11 woke civilians up. It would appear that some are still asleep and not willing to look at the ugly truth of our enemy. As long as we stand behind Israel, they cannot do any thing about it and they don't like it. As long as our foreign policy stands to keep Sunni and Shi'ites from disrupting the world's interests, they will not like it. Their temper tantrums involve the murder of our people. Arresting up the few direct terrorists and leaving the sources to walk the streets is like applying a band-aid to a heart attack. Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Momar Khadafi, and other figureheads of Islamic leadership, is not the problem. The problem is Middle Eastern Islam itself. They have been digressing back to the days before their prophet Muhammad and have been resorting to human sacrifice in the name of Islam. They are becoming a cult. No Islamic people outside of the Middle East practice and glorify such behavior. One day, after more ritual beheadings in the name of their god, I believe more people will come to realize this.

The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers and terrorist activity throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East. The Arab clerecs, especially, will remain guilty-in great part-for every murder committed by Muslim extremists from all over the region. They created the monsters who now dictate their version of Islam. In the Middle East, blaming others for every problem is the narcotic of choice.

To attack this problem, the citizens have to be less susceptible to force fed Cleric hate speech, which is used to control them by their oppressors. This means they have to be afforded the opportunities to view media outside of the propagandas Al-Jazeera so that they can realize that America is not the reason for their oppression and their 1st Century type life styles, but it is they themselves. Sparking change by attacking into the heartland of Islamic perversion and oppression is exactly what Iraq offered us. We've already won. The voting polls were proof. They have tasted a better life; and they know with stability it will improve. If one doubts that they can do it, one only has to look at the example set by the Kurds in the North.

And for the hundreth time.
Terrorism isn't just a tool of the Extremist Muslum Arabs.
Americans use terrorism too, example the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Also, everyone seems to try to pin the bombing on the muslums these days.
Any act of terrorism is blamed on the Muslum Extremists.
After it is already blamed on the Muslum Extremists, they take credit for it, because they know it will **** us off more, even if they didn't do it.

 

[wrath]

And for the hundreth time.
Terrorism isn't just a tool of the Extremist Muslum Arabs.
Americans use terrorism too, example the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Also, everyone seems to try to pin the bombing on the muslums these days.
Any act of terrorism is blamed on the Muslum Extremists.
After it is already blamed on the Muslum Extremists, they take credit for it, because they know it will **** us off more, even if they didn't do it.

The Oklahoma City bombing is a good example. Can you recall another example of that magnitude committed by an American?

There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world. Over 90 percent of these are Islamist groups. So, if you were to assume that a terrorist act was committed by an Islamic terrorist organization, chances are, you would be correct.

 

[Caine]

The Oklahoma City bombing is a good example. Can you recall another example of that magnitude committed by an American?

There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world. Over 90 percent of these are Islamist groups. So, if you were to assume that a terrorist act was committed by an Islamic terrorist organization, chances are, you would be correct.

Yes, lets assume it was by a group instead of an individual.

Mobsters killed and probably still kill people all the time.
Are we to assume that every murder is committed by a Crime Syndicate and not a single person act of aggression?

Don't forget we also had the unabomber.... and the guy from here in my state who bombed the Atlanta Olympics and then bombed abortion clinics and that stuff.

But he must have been an Arab.

 

[MSgt]

And for the hundreth time.
Terrorism isn't just a tool of the Extremist Muslum Arabs.
Americans use terrorism too, example the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Also, everyone seems to try to pin the bombing on the muslums these days.
Any act of terrorism is blamed on the Muslum Extremists.
After it is already blamed on the Muslum Extremists, they take credit for it, because they know it will **** us off more, even if they didn't do it.

This is what I call "American denial." Being an Iraqi war veteran, why haven't you taken the time to study up on the Middle Eastern issues? By subscribing to the scapegoat excuses of denial, you aren't doing yourself justice.

Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century.

Middle Eastern Islam and all of it's violence is sanctioned by "Allah" – as far as their clerics tell them anyway. Allah rewards the martyr that kills, rapes, and murders - straight out of the mouth of Muslim religious leaders. Their violence isn't just against anti-muslims, but against anyone that would defy current leadership that uses and blaspemes the Koran for oppression sake, this means their own people. Ironic, that the true Islamic blasphemers are they themselves.

Why should we not hold their behavior accountable instead of dismissing them as acts that other religions participated in centuries ago. Should we dismiss the terrorist acts of the last thirty years on our people because of the Oklahoma bombing? Should the fear of hypocricy, because of Christian “witch burnings at Winston Salem”, prevent us from protecting ourselves? Oh sure, you'll find current rogue acts of perversions made by people in other religions, but you will not find such acts passed off as the will of God at such massive and extreme proportions. Their society has stagnated centuries ago and are now unable to compete against the rest of the world, because of their religious oppressions and perversions. No where else in the world will you find Islam in such a failing state. This is a Middle Eastern problem and it has been leaking on to our civilization for decades.

Nobody on this site has ever said that all terrorists are Arabs or of the Islamic religion. This war on terror is not against the IRA and other such extremists groups. They aren't the one's that have been determined to be at war with us since the 70's. This war on terror was fixed on "less than honorable" nations with WMD and the Islamic extremists of the Middle East. Just what has been "pinned" erronously on the fanatical Muslim? You are the one transfixed on this. Why don't you expound on this?

 

[robin]

EXACTLY...they cannot, not to mention that to speak against their governments is an act of blasphemy against "Allah" and is punishable by death. This is why a military action on our part and allowing them to set up a democracy of their choosing is the only option. However, we are being fought the entire way by our own people here in America that refuse to see hoe terrorism is a product of their lifestyles throughout the Middle East. After all is said and done, it will be the Muslims in the Middle East that fix this problem. We cannot fix it for them. "Opportunity", is as far as we can take them.

American intelligence thinks losing another 1800 US lives in war in Terror in Iraq is worthwhile !
This leads me to ask.. What does this say about US intelligence ?
Could it be that the phrase 'American Intelligence', is a contradiction in terms?
Here's a quote from someone that works uh sorry... surfs the net all day, in Urmerican Intelligence... "Does my semen taste too good for you"
Let's try a quick intelligence test & see if anyone can spot the Iraqi

911
AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 11
7:45 a.m.: Departed Boston for Los Angeles.
8:46 a.m.: Crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center.

Mohamed Atta, pilot and group leader
Age: 33.
Nationality: Egyptian.
“A walking dead man.” That is how the head of one Florida flight school described this son of a middle-class lawyer and a doting mother. It was not a reference to Atta’s impending suicide, but to his demeanor. Most Floridians who encountered Atta remember him as always serious and frequently boorish. Thought to be a mastermind of the Sept. 11 plot, he and two other leader/pilots, Marwan al-Shehhi and Ziad Jarrah, go back to the late 1990s when they spent time together at Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg in Germany.

Abdulaziz Alomari
Age: Unknown.
Nationality: Saudi.
The last hijacker to arrive in the United States. His grinning face captured at an ATM machine in Portland, Maine, gave rise to an FBI theory that some hijackers did not know the Sept. 11 plot was a suicide mission. Took flying classes in Vero Beach. Trained at a Boynton Beach gym.

Satam M.A. Al Suqami
Age: 25.
Nationality: Saudi.
Tied to a foiled millennium plot to blow up tourist sites. Trained in a Boynton Beach gym.

Wail M. Alshehri
Age: 28.
Nationality: Saudi.
Stayed at motels in Hollywood, Deerfield Beach and Boynton Beach. Brother is Waleed, below.

Waleed M. Alshehri
Age: 22.
Nationality: Saudi.
Generally followed his brother’s movements in Florida. Their father last saw them in December 2000 when Wail Alshehri went away to seek religious help for a psychological problem.

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175
7:58 a.m.: Departed Boston for Los Angeles
9:02 a.m.: Crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center

Marwan al-Shehhi, pilot and group leader
Age: 23.
Nationality: United Arab Emirates.
Al-Shehhi was a friendly foil to his frequent companion, the brooding Atta, as they earned their commercial pilots licenses together in Venice, then trained on a simulator in Opa-Locka near Miami. He and Atta arrived in the United States in the summer of 2000. This time last year, al-Shehhi, Atta and several other Sept. 11 terrorists were living at a Deerfield Beach motel, where the owner noticed they dressed nicely, never went to the beach a block away, never swam in the kidney-shaped pool and always carried black duffel bags.

Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad
Age: 28.
Nationality: Saudi.
He left home in July 2000, telling his family he was joining the International Islamic Relief Organization. He turned up later in Delray Beach. A year ago this past Tuesday, he purchased his first-class ticket on Flight 175.

Ahmed Alghamdi
Age: 21.
Nationality: Saudi.
One of two Sept. 11 terrorists with ties to a foiled millennium plot to attack tourist destinations. Lived in Delray, but moved to Virginia by this time last year to get in place for the attack.

Hamza Alghamdi
Age: 20.
Nationality: Saudi.
Lived in Delray Beach with two hijackers from Flight 93, the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania.

Mohand Alshehri
Age: 21.
Nationality: Unknown.
Not related to the Alshehri brothers aboard Flight 11. Lived in Delray Beach, where a librarian remembers his name on signup sheets to wait to use a computer.

photo
AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77
8:10 a.m.: Departed Washington Dulles for Los Angeles
9:40 a.m.: Crashed into the Pentagon

Hani Hanjour, pilot and group leader
Age: 29.
Nationality: Saudi.
Hanjour led the terrorist group based in San Diego. His only Florida contact came in 1996 when he stayed with friends of his brother in Miramar. In the weeks before Sept. 11, he met twice with Mohamed Atta in Las Vegas. The FBI now believes those sessions at a discount motel were crucial in planning the attacks. Hanjour took flying lessons in Scottsdale, Ariz., where his instructors said his skills were poor. Investigators say that could be the reason Flight 77, with Hanjour at the controls, began to jerk.

Nawaf Alhazmi
Age: 25.
Nationality: Unknown.

Majed Moqed
Age: Unknown.
Nationality: Unknown.

Khalid Almihdhar
Age: Unknown.
Nationality: Unknown.

Salem Alhazmi
Age: Uknown.
Nationality: Saudi.

photo

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 93
8:42 a.m.: Departed Newark for San Francisco
10:01 a.m.: Crashed in Stony Creek Township, Penn.

Ziad Samir Jarrah, pilot and group leader
Age: 26.
Nationality: Lebanese.
Jarrah was the leader of the only hijacking group with four members, a factor that may have enabled a group of passengers to overpower them. Raised in a middle-class family, Jarrah left Lebanon in 1996. In Germany, he partied and seemed to enjoy Western culture. In 1999, after meeting Atta, he got his pilot’s license in Hamburg and dropped out of school. He turned up several months later in Venice, Fla., to take flying lessons. In 2001, he moved to Hollywood and began martial arts classes. On Sept. 9, he checked out of a Deerfield Beach motel with Atta, al-Shehhi and others.

Saeed Alghamdi
Age: 25.
Nationality: Saudi.
One of three hijackers who rented a $900-a-month condo in the Delray Beach Racquet Club near I-95. On Sept. 7, Alghamdi and roommate Ahmed Alnami flew from Fort Lauderdale to Newark on Spirit Airlines to get in position for Sept. 11.

Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi
Age: 20.
Nationality: Saudi.
Once lived in Lauderdale by the Sea, two blocks from the beach, with Jarrah. Drove Jarrah’s sporty Mitsubishi Eclipse.

Ahmed Alnami
Age: 23.
Nationality: Saudi.
At 5-feet-9 inches tall, he was among the taller hijackers.

Morocco's shock at Madrid bomb 'link'
By Pascale Harter
BBC correspondent in Morocco
Police in the Moroccan port city of Tangier have been searching the home of a prime suspect in the Madrid bombings.

A woman holds flowers as hundreds of Moroccans show support for victims of the Madrid train bombings
The people of Tangier have shown solidarity with the Spanish victims
Jamal Zougam is being held in custody by Spanish investigators of last Thursday's blasts which ripped through trains in the Spanish capital, killing 201 people.

A neighbour of Zougam's Tangier home, in a middle class neighbourhood, said the suspect dressed in casual Western clothes and shaved off his beard when in Morocco, to avoid being stopped by the police.

The Spanish newspaper El Pais says police have identified Mr Zougam as one of six Moroccan nationals who they believe are responsible for the attacks.

Police say Mr Zougam and the five other Moroccans who are still at large were operating an Al-Qaeda cell within Spain.

 

[robin]

Terrorists not from Iraq !

Cont'd

Bali
The Bali bombing suspects
Indonesian police have detained more than 30 people in connection with the 2002 Bali bombing. BBC News Online profiles the most important suspects.

Amrozi bin Nurhasyim has been found guilty of helping plan and carry out the Bali attacks.

He was the first suspect to go on trial, and the verdict was delivered on Thursday 7 August, when he was sentenced to death.

Police say he has admitted to owning the van used to bomb the Sari Club in Kuta, and to buying explosives.

Amrozi
Aged 41
From Lamongan, East Java
Mechanic

They say he left for Malaysia in the late 1980s and returned in the early 1990s, having met an older brother who gave him religious guidance.

He reportedly studied at an Islamic school in southern Malaysia where two other suspects - Imam Samudra and his older brother Mukhlas - and detained Indonesian cleric Abu Bakar Ba'asyir are all said to have taught.

Amrozi is said by police to have plotted the bombing with another suspect, Imam Samudra, and to have met him in Bali six days before the bombing.

Samudra
Aged 35
From Tasikmalaya, West Java.
Computer expert

Imam Sumudra, a 33-year-old Indonesian computer expert, was sentenced to death for his part in organising the Bali attacks.

Imam Samudra, who also operated under the aliases of Fatih, Fat, Kudama, Abdul Aziz, Abu Umar and Heri, is described by police as the bombing "field commander".

During his trial, prosecutors said he chose the target and led planning meetings.

They say that he stayed behind in Bali for four days after the attack, allegedly to monitor how the police investigation began.

Police say he is an engineer with a university education and that he learned how to make bombs in Afghanistan.

He is also suspected of involvement in a string of church bombings across Indonesia in 2000.

Giving evidence at the separate trial of Indonesian Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Ba'asyir, Imam Samudra said bombings were part of jihad.

He quoted a verse from the Koran as saying: "Fight in the path of Allah against people who are fighting Muslims."

Asked about Christians who died in attacks, he replied: "Christians are not my brothers."

He denied any connection with the regional militant group Jemaah Islamiah.

Click here to return

Mukhlas
Taught at an Islamic school
Older brother of Amrozi
Alleged operations chief of JI

Click here for full profile

Mukhlas had admitted involvement in the Bali attack, but denied that he played a direct role. He claimed he just gave the bombers religious guidance.

He was found guilty of being the overall co-ordinator of the attacks on Thursday 2 October. The Indonesian court judges said the charges against him were "legally and convincingly proven", there were no mitigating circumstances and he deserved the maximum sentence of death by firing squad.

Prosecutors had argued that the 43-year-old Islamic teacher chaired the preparatory meetings for the attacks, channelled funds to finance it, and approved the targets.

Mukhlas had told a Jakarta court at the earlier trial of Abu Bakar Ba'asyir that he had taken over from Hambali as the operations chief of regional militant group Jemaah Islamiah, which wants to set up a pan-South East Asian Muslim state.

He said he went to Pakistan in 1989, met Arab mujahedin there, and joined them in Afghanistan.

Asked by a judge if he knew Osama Bin Laden, who also served in Afghanistan, Mukhlas said: "Yes, I know him well", but denied Bin Laden had any part in the Bali attacks.

At one point he told the court: "I wish all the world could be one Muslim country."

His younger brother Amrozi is said to have described Mukhlas as an inspiration to him, and has told police how he received religious guidance from him.

Click here to return

Idris
Aged 35
Logistics expert
Said he asked God for forgiveness after the attack
Idris, alias Jhoni Hendrawan or Gembrot, admitted taking part in both the Bali attacks and the Marriott Hotel bombing in Jakarta in August 2003.

However, he was only found guilty of the Marriott attack at the end of his trial on 24 August, and cleared of the Bali bombings.

This was because the court decided a recent ruling on a special terror law rushed into legislation after the Bali attacks meant it could not be used retroactively to prosecute him for his part in the Bali bombings.

He has been described by police as one of the five people who planned the Bali attacks. They say he played a key logistics role, acting as a link between the planners and the field operatives.

He is also accused of gathering funds for the attack, and of organising transport and accommodation for the bombers in the days leading up to the bombings.

Giving evidence in the trial of Mukhlas, Idris said he had detonated the smallest of the Bali bombs - that which exploded near the US consulate, and did not kill anybody - by mobile telephone.

He was arrested in June after allegedly robbing a bank.

Police said he was counting the money when arrested, and that the cash would have been used for further terrorist attacks.

Ali Imron
Aged 33
Fought in Afghanistan in 1990s
Said he helped build bomb

Ali Imron was found guilty on Thursday 18 September of planning the Bali attacks and sentenced to life in prison.

He is the younger brother of Mukhlas and Amrozi, but unlike his brothers, he expressed remorse for the Bali attacks.

Throughout his trial he appeared in court in a Western-style suit and sat quietly as evidence was read.

He did not contest the charges against him, and has co-operated with police.

Shortly after his arrest in January, Ali Imron took part in a police news conference in which he demonstrated how he and others assembled the bombs.

He said he felt sorry for the families of the victims, but that the US and its allies were legitimate targets.

Ali Imron is accused of helping a fugitive Malaysian, Dr Azahari, to build the bomb which destroyed the Sari club, from chemicals and TNT placed inside plastic boxes in a van they parked outside the club.

He was also charged, along with Idris, of teaching a suicide bomber how to detonate an explosives-stuffed vest which exploded in Paddy's Bar across the road from Sari Club.

Click here to return

Dr Azahari Husin

Dr Azahari Husin, a 45-year-old Malaysian, is alleged to be Jemaah Islamiah's top bomb-making expert.

Azahari Husin
Aged 45
Malaysian university lecturer
Supervised the bomb making

He gained a doctorate from Britain's University of Reading, before becoming a university lecturer in Malaysia.

A married father of two, he is said by some to be a fanatic, ready to die for his cause.

He is believed to have given bomb making classes to JI militants and to have issued precise instructions on how the massive car bomb used at the Sari club was to be manufactured.

As well as technical bomb making expertise, he is alleged to have been a key figure at the JI planning meeting which selected Bali as a target

Click here to return

Dulmatin

Dulmatin, a 32-year-old Malaysian electronics expert, has so far been able to avoid the police hunt.


Dulmatin
Aged 32
Malaysian technician
Allegedly helped build bombs

He is believed to have worked alongside another Malaysian, Dr Azahari Husin, to assemble the massive car bomb, as well as the explosives vest used by a suicide bomber who attacked the nearby Paddy's Bar.

Police say he triggered the Sari bomb using his cell phone.

London July 7th bombing
Two of the bombers are named by police as Shehzad Tanweer, 22, of Beeston, Leeds, and Hasib Mir Hussain, 18, also of Leeds.
Tanweer is thought to be responsible for the Liverpool Street blast and Hussain the Tavistock Square.
A third, Mohammed Sidique Khan, 30, of Beeston, linked to the Edgware Road attack, is named by newspapers. The fourth bomber's identity is not yet known.

London 21st July
The court hearing of four men accused of the failed 21 July London Tube bombings is postponed. British born... Ibrahim Muktar Said, 27, Ramzi Mohamed, 23, Manfo Kwaku Asiedu, 32, and Yassin Omar, 24, are charged with conspiracy to murder and explosives offences.

See any Iraqis in this list above ?
I can't.
Gy gives the appearance of someone so off the mark that he's gone on a wild crusade against Muslims almost in the manner they crusade against us infidels wherever we are.
Clearly it doesn't matter whether they participated in the attacks on us. Just as long as he's fighting Muslims he's happy !
You are a crusader GY
The arms companies love you.
I can imagine with your intelligence you'd deal with a fly problem in your own garden by stamping on flies in your neighbour's garden, when all along the offending 'Richard the Third' was in your own backyard :lol:

 

[Caine]

This is what I call "American denial."

Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century.

Middle Eastern Islam and all of it's violence is sanctioned by "Allah" – as far as their clerics tell them anyway. Allah rewards the martyr that kills, rapes, and murders - straight out of the mouth of Muslim religious leaders. Their violence isn't just against anti-muslims, but against anyone that would defy current leadership that uses and blaspemes the Koran for oppression sake, this means their own people. Ironic, that the true Islamic blasphemers are they themselves.

Why should we not hold their behavior accountable instead of dismissing them as acts that other religions participated in centuries ago. Should we dismiss the terrorist acts of the last thirty years on our people because of the Oklahoma bombing? Should the fear of hypocricy, because of Christian “witch burnings at Winston Salem”, prevent us from protecting ourselves? Oh sure, you'll find current rogue acts of perversions made by people in other religions, but you will not find such acts passed off as the will of God at such massive and extreme proportions. Their society has stagnated centuries ago and are now unable to compete against the rest of the world, because of their religious oppressions and perversions. No where else in the world will you find Islam in such a failing state. This is a Middle Eastern problem and it has been leaking on to our civilization for decades.


Just what has been "pinned" erronously on the fanatical Muslim. Why don't you expound on this.

Because you obviously don't understand what Im trying to say.
Yes, you are correct in all this detail about Muslums and clerics and all that crap.

Im saying that a "War on Terrorism" is a stupid name for this conflict and a conflict that we will never win. Why? Because Terrorism isn't just a muslum thing. And we aren't even actively pursuing Osama Bin Laden. We are too busy installing our own leaders into the newly liberating countries under the pretenses that they have been "elected" into thier offices.

 

[MSgt]

Robin...

Simpleton....the region and it's need to spread into places like Africa and Asia is the problem. Not just a country. You just can't stand that I'm more intelligent than you with an experience to back it up while you have nothing can you? I see the bashing of a greater nation persists. Maturity.....it's called maturity. Look it up.

 

[MSgt]

Because you obviously don't understand what Im trying to say.
Yes, you are correct in all this detail about Muslums and clerics and all that crap.

Im saying that a "War on Terrorism" is a stupid name for this conflict and a conflict that we will never win. Why? Because Terrorism isn't just a muslum thing. And we aren't even actively pursuing Osama Bin Laden. We are too busy installing our own leaders into the newly liberating countries under the pretenses that they have been "elected" into thier offices.

Well, maybe you are trying to be too specific in the wording. I didn't name it. I would have identified Islam as the problem. Islam is struggling for an identity. The extremists and their millions of followers are fighting for their version, while the passive Muslims around the world and in the Middle East aren't lifting a finger.

 

[Caine]

Robin...
I absolutely agree with that quote of yours.
Some people are so blinded by "patriotism"
others blinded by thinking that if they DON'T agree with every thing our country does just because its our country than they support terrorism.

Its actually quite pathetic, being as how our original patriots in the US came about by those who disagreed with thier country, and thus the revolutionary war and our eventual independance.

 

[MSgt]

Robin...
I absolutely agree with that quote of yours.
Some people are so blinded by "patriotism"
others blinded by thinking that if they DON'T agree with every thing our country does just because its our country than they support terrorism.

Its actually quite pathetic, being as how our original patriots in the US came about by those who disagreed with thier country, and thus the revolutionary war and our eventual independance.

Well, that time era is long gone. Welcome to the 21st Century.