SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! (bring them home)

[SKILMATIC]

Sorry skill I misquoted you.

Trajan those are very lofty things you mentioned and they become ingrained in a very sgort time. Especially when you are young. However in the think of things they don't occur to you. if they did I don't think you could do your job. As i remember back 40 years if anything at all was on my mind it was God and my mother. You have heard the expression "There are no athiests in foxholes." That's true but i had a squad leader who once said there a also no orphans or patriots there either. There's plenty of truth to that as well. I have to try to get some sleep guys with this changing weather i haven't been able to sleep for 48 hours and i am not as young as I once was. (How's that for being redundant?) . Leave me something good for the AM. Good night and God bless.

Its ok its not the first time people misquote me.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Sorry skill I misquoted you.

Trajan those are very lofty things you mentioned and they become ingrained in a very sgort time. Especially when you are young. However in the think of things they don't occur to you. if they did I don't think you could do your job. As i remember back 40 years if anything at all was on my mind it was God and my mother. You have heard the expression "There are no athiests in foxholes." That's true but i had a squad leader who once said there a also no orphans or patriots there either. There's plenty of truth to that as well. I have to try to get some sleep guys with this changing weather i haven't been able to sleep for 48 hours and i am not as young as I once was. (How's that for being redundant?) . Leave me something good for the AM. Good night and God bless.

Try tylenol PM it's non habit forming and works great.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Try tylenol PM it's non habit forming and works great.

Hey, wheres archon been? Its getting boring without him. :lol:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by GySgt:
Prove it? Since you insist in making me make a fool out of you AGAIN....

What's with this "again" bullshit? Your pretty arrogant. The only way you can beat me is with your little self-declaration of victory (which is quite popular around these parts). But it don't mean sh!t.

Originally posted by GySgt:
I said in Post #1228 of this thread- This just blows me away. No wonder you have trouble figuring out who the bad guys are.

Here you go playing make beleive again. I don't have any trouble on who bad guys are.

Originally posted by GySgt:
This would be a great place to look when trying to prove your "75 percent destruction of Fallujah" and the "displacement of 300,000 residents."

I'm not sure this statement makes any sense. It would be a
"...great place to look when trying to prove..."
what the f_ck is that? Its non-sensical. Let me help you out. I think your implying these are my numbers. It is true that I posted them, however, I did not make them up. Nor did I search the web until I found them. But this isn't the issue. The issue is the carnege we caused in that city.

Originally posted by GySgt:
You said in Post #1229 of this thread directly in response- "I didn't get any of those from that website. In fact, I got those numbers from several different sources."

Congrats, you finally got something right!

Originally posted by GySgt:
Still know what you said, or perhaps like so often, you were hoping that I wouldn't actually look for it?

I think that is more your hope than mine.

Originally posted by GySgt:
Shall I summerize?...

No, but your going to anyway.

Originally posted by GySgt:
you said "I got those numbers." Care to tell us all again how you didn't say this?

And you were doing so good. You had gotten one thing right and now this. Back to being wrong again. I didn't say I didn't say that. Your trying to say that I said all 300,000 residents were living in tents and that we destroyed 75% of the city. And the fact is, I didn't say all 300,000 were living in tents. I don't even remember putting a number on how many were in tents. My point was, there are a lot of people that are displaced because of our perfect example of how you take down a city. Now, I did say that we destroyed 75% of the city. And the fact is, I don't really know if that much is destroyed. But there is one thing I do know, and that is you don't know either. In case you would like to see for yourself, here's a link that has a video of the destruction. For a city that had that many people in it, you will see in the video what is basically a ghost town.

Fallujah is a unique collaborative production created by Iraqi and American filmmakers. After a major US led offensive launch in November of 2004, two-thirds of the city was destroyed and thousands of its citizens were forced into refugee camps. Code Pink commissioned Iraqi filmmaker Homodi Hasim to send a team of videographers and investigative journalists to Fallujah to record the destruction and death inflicted by the American assault. He also interviewed many of the thousands of Fallujah residents who were forced to live in refugee camps on the outskirts of Fallujah and Baghdad. Using the footage produced by Code Pink and additional footage of the US led destruction of Fallujah, Jacquie Soohen and Brandon Jourdan worked together to produce this gripping documentary.

http://www.freespeech.org/fscm2/contentviewer.php?content_id=1120

Originally posted by GySgt:
Where would you prefer the terrorist capital of the world to be? Tehran? Damascus? Nothing we do is going to be "pretty." Until Iraq, the terrorist capitol of the world was in Afghanistan. So you see, it doesn't matter what we do or do not do. They are not going away and our actions against them will cause death and destruction whereever we go.

I don't care if what we do is pretty or not. I just want it to be legal.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by GySgt:
Intel and Iraqis on the ground. Most of our intel Inside Iraq come from the people. What you call racism, I call your weakness to travel the realm of the "unpoliticaly correct." get over yourself. There is no more racism in my statements than there is wisdom in yours. Allow me to make the same old comment I always seem to have to make when people like you are too stupid to follow along or merely wish to portray me for something I'm not....."It's really difficult to exactly delineate who our enemies are, but they number in millions. They're Arab and Muslim, but not every Arab is among them, and most Muslims are not. Our fight is with the few, but our struggle must be with the many." I'm sure in a couple weeks, I will just have to post this again, when you make another attempt to portray me as a racist, because you lack any education on the issues and use your emotions to guide you through. Funny how nobody else has done this, including the Muslims on this site. You're a weak individual, Billo. Yet you accuse me of being emotional

Interesting how your Intel comes from the people in Iraq, but when I post comments from the people in Iraq its not considered Intel, it's considered bullshit. Or just one mans opinion that can't be take for the majority. I guess the door doesn't swing both ways now does it? You are condemning an entire race of people (islamists) as being the reason for all the problems. That, in any language is RACIST! But you won't spend one nano-second on our contribution to the problem. As I have stated before, and I'm getting tired of repeating myself too, you have to have a real "hate-on" to do some of the things terrorists have done. You don't just all-of-a-sudden decide to fly planes into buildings. There are external factors that drive someone to that level of hatred. Your attitude just might be one of those factors.

You keep trying to make this arguement about me and you. And its not. It's not about who I am, or what I am, or how I get information, or how you trash that information, or how bla bla, bla bla...

It's about people thinking this (see below - not billo) about my country and its ******* me off! This is from the World Tribunal on Iraq:

1. Planning, preparing, and waging the supreme crime of a war of aggression in contravention of the United Nations Charter and the Nuremberg Principles.
Evidence for this can be found in the leaked Downing Street Memo of 23rd July, 2002 in which it was revealed that: "military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were fixed around the policy." Intelligence was manufactured to willfully deceive the people of the US, the UK, and their elected representatives.

2. Targeting the civilian population of Iraq and civilian infrastructure, by intentionally directing attacks upon civilians and hospitals, medical centers, residential neighborhoods, electricity stations, and water purification facilities in violation of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and the International Covenant for Civil and Political Rights ("ICCPR"), Articles 7(1)(a), 8(2)(a)(i), and 8(2)(b)(i). The complete destruction of the city of Falluja in itself constitutes a glaring example of such crimes.

3. Using disproportionate force and indiscriminate weapon systems, such as cluster munitions, incendiary bombs, depleted uranium (DU), and chemical weapons. Detailed evidence was presented to the Tribunal by expert witnesses that leukemia had risen sharply in children under the age of five residing in those areas which had been targeted by DU weapons.

4. Failing to safeguard the lives of civilians during military activities and during the occupation period thereafter, in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Articles 13 and 27, and the ICC Statute, Articles 7 (1)(a) and 8(2)(a)(i). This is evidenced, for example, by "shock and awe" bombing techniques and the conduct of occupying forces at checkpoints.

5. Using deadly violence against peaceful protestors, beginning with, among others, the April 2003 killing of more than a dozen peaceful protestors in Falluja.

6. Imposing punishments without charge or trial, including collective punishment, on the people of Iraq, in violation of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), Geneva Conventions, and customary international law requiring due process. Repeated testimonies pointed to "snatch and grab" operations, disappearances, and assassinations.

7. Subjecting Iraqi soldiers and civilians to torture and cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment in violation of the Geneva Conventions, the ICCPR, other treaties and covenants, and customary international law. Degrading treatment includes subjecting Iraqi soldiers and civilians to acts of racial, ethnic, religious, and gender discrimination, as well as denying Iraqi soldiers Prisoner of War status as required by the Geneva Convention. Abundant testimony was provided of unlawful arrests and detentions, without due process of law. Well known and egregious examples occurred in Abu Ghraib prison as well as in Mosul, Camp Bucca, and Basra. The employment of mercenaries and private contractors to carry out torture has served to undermine accountability.

8. Re-writing the laws of a country that has been illegally invaded and occupied, in violation of international covenants on the responsibilities of occupying powers, in order to amass illegal profits (through such measures as Order 39, signed by L. Paul Bremer III for the Coalition Provisional Authority, which allows foreign investors to buy and takeover Iraq's state-owned enterprises and to repatriate 100 percent of their profits and assets at any point) and to control Iraq's oil. Evidence listed a number of corporations that had profited from such transactions.

9. Willfully devastating the environment, contaminating it by depleted uranium (DU) weapons, combined with the plumes from burning oil wells, as well as huge oil spills, and destroying agricultural lands. Deliberately disrupting the water and waste removal systems, in a manner verging on biological-chemical warfare. Failing to prevent the looting and dispersal of radioactive material from nuclear sites. Extensive documentation is available on air, water pollution, land degradation, and radiological pollution.

10. Actively creating conditions under which the status of Iraqi women has seriously been degraded contrary, to the repeated claims of the leaders of the coalition forces. Women's freedom of movement has been severely limited, restricting their access to education, livelihood, and social engagement. Testimony was provided that sexual violence and sex trafficking have increased since the occupation of Iraq began.

11. Failing to protect humanity's rich archaeological and cultural heritage in Iraq, by allowing the looting of museums and established historical sites and positioning military bases in culturally and archeologically sensitive locations. This took place despite prior warnings from UNESCO and Iraqi museum officials.

12. Obstructing the right to information, including the censoring of Iraqi media, such as newspapers (e.g., al-Hawza, al-Mashriq, and al-Mustaqila) and radio stations (Baghdad Radio), targeting international journalists, imprisoning and killing academics, intellectuals and scientists.

13. Redefining torture in violation of international law, to allow use of torture and illegal detentions, including holding more than 500 people at Guantánamo Bay without charging them or allowing them any access to legal protection, and using "extraordinary renditions" to send people to torture in other countries known to commit human rights abuses and torture prisoners.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/062705A.shtml

You probably think I'm a liar and just made all this up. That's OK. I don't give a f_ck what you think. That wasn't too emotional, was it?

 

[SKILMATIC]

Interesting how your Intel comes from the people in Iraq, but when I post comments from the people in Iraq its not considered Intel, it's considered bullshit. Or just one mans opinion that can't be take for the majority. I guess the door doesn't swing both ways now does it? You are condemning an entire race of people (islamists) as being the reason for all the problems. That, in any language is RACIST! But you won't spend one nano-second on our contribution to the problem. As I have stated before, and I'm getting tired of repeating myself too, you have to have a real "hate-on" to do some of the things terrorists have done. You don't just all-of-a-sudden decide to fly planes into buildings. There are external factors that drive someone to that level of hatred. Your attitude just might be one of those factors.

You keep trying to make this arguement about me and you. And its not. It's not about who I am, or what I am, or how I get information, or how you trash that information, or how bla bla, bla bla...

It's about people thinking this (see below - not billo) about my country and its ******* me off! This is from the World Tribunal on Iraq:

You probably think I'm a liar and just made all this up. That's OK. I don't give a f_ck what you think. That wasn't too emotional, was it?

Your a lying bogot with too much emotion in that post. Hey I guess you were right. :lol:

 

[Inuyasha]

Here's something from newsweek that an old buddy of mine posted on our unit bullitin board. i think it's great and really fits this sibject.

Nov. 14, 2005 issue -
Italy, late May 1944. The Allied Army advanced on Rome and suffered a brutal counterattack. Hunkered down near the beaches of Anzio, a 23-year-old Army private from Oak Ridge, Tenn., sent a despondent letter home. "Take a combination of fear, anger, hunger, thirst, exhaustion, loneliness, homesickness," Paul Curtis wrote to a younger brother who wanted to know about war, "and you might approach the feelings a fellow has." Nothing can ease his depression, not even the prospect that the war might end. He is certain that war will "rise again." After all, he writes, "peace will be settled by men who have never known combat and ... hold no dread of another war for they don't know."

Old soldiers have always led America. They've shown us how to love our country, revere our military and honor our war dead. More softly, they've warned of the dangers of wishing for war. "It is well that war is so terrible," said Robert E. Lee, or else "we should grow too fond of it," and soldiers have echoed him from Antietam to Iraq. Now, as we celebrate another Veterans Day, we welcome home a new generation of soldiers. If history is a guide, only a few of these new veterans will join antiwar movements; most will proudly support their country in any future entanglements it may face. But many of those returning from Afghanistan and Iraq will doubtless join a tradition of brave veterans who quietly hate war. They can teach us why war is never romantic, but may sometimes be worth fighting all the same.

Fighting soldiers fall quickly out of love with war. Living in cramped quarters, stripped of their individuality, they find their youthful dreams of glorious war alien and strange. "I once had a dim notion about the 'romance of a soldier's life'," wrote a Union soldier after the first Battle of Manassas. "I have bravely got over it since." In World War II, "anybody who was involved with killing and being killed was disillusioned from the start," says the war historian Paul Fussell. "You can't go through that kind of combat without becoming disillusioned."

Some veterans voice their feelings clearly. Gen. William T. Sherman's admonition that "war is hell" is often remembered for its irony (Sherman was the cruelest prosecutor of the Civil War in the South). Forgotten is Sherman's audience, a graduating class of military cadets. Seeing hunger for war rising among his listeners, Sherman offered simple advice: "Suppress it." Adults can be equally susceptible to romantic notions of wars. "The intellectual community is apt to say we have to 'do something'," Gen. Colin Powell wrote in 1995. "But in the end, it is the armed forces that bring back the body bags and have to explain why to parents." Some even give up all illusions of noble service. "Never mind about the glory of a uniform," a Korean War veteran wrote to a friend considering enlistment. "There are too many dead & maimed glorious & honour bound boys."

Other old soldiers are always hungry for a fight. Theodore Roosevelt was in love with war when he stormed San Juan Heights and never lost his romantic sense of combat. Even at the death of his son Quentin in World War I, Roosevelt was triumphant: the boy had "had his crowded hour." ("My other boys are just as daring," Roosevelt bragged when responding to a letter of condolence. "If the war lasts, they will all be killed unless they are so crippled as to be sent home.") As a young lieutenant colonel in World War I, George S. Patton came under heavy fire in the St-Mihiel offensive. Remembering his grandfather, a fallen Confederate general, he concluded it was his noble destiny to be "another Patton" who died on the field of war. (He lived and went on to command campaigns on two continents in World War II.)

Other military families are less eager for combat; still, if it's war, their sons will fight. Some think it dangerous to dwell on war's horrors. Man's "destiny is battle," said the thrice-wounded Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. "If it is our business to fight, the book for the army is a war-song, not a hospital-sketch."

Veterans who speak openly of war's evil, though, say honesty can help us in future fights. History may be on their side. Combat had no romance after World War I; a generation had been lost for nothing but the dreams of dead kings. But when darkness fell again in Europe, the weary West stood up to fight in World War II. "We are all conscientious objectors," said the English writer Rupert Croft-Cooke, "and all in the war."

It is the privilege of the old soldier, then, to speak realistically of war, and idealistically of peace. Another privilege: speaking for those who did not live to speak for themselves. At the end of his letter home, Paul Curtis, the downtrodden Army private, ventured that "all new men" shared his hatred for combat. He wondered if old men felt differently and if someday he would feel differently, too. We cannot know. Three days after writing his letter, Curtis was struck down in combat, just south of Rome.

© 2005 Newsweek, Inc.
Replies:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
Your a lying bogot with too much emotion in that post. Hey I guess you were right.

Why, thank you SKIL, no ones ever called me that. As a "lying bogot", I stand before you a changed man. I owe it all to you. Your the greatest! Salom Malakim.

 

[shuamort]

Mod Note

This thread was long overdue for being closed as it's in excess of 1000 posts. If there's a need to start a new thread on the same topic, feel free to do so and I'll stick a link at the end of this thread.

Thanks!

/Mod Note