SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! (bring them home) (1 Viewer)

[ban.the.electoral.college]

The war in Iraq is loosing public support, as americans realize they've been maliciously duped into thinking 9/11 was linked to Iraq. Many say Bush had this war planned months before 9/11 ever occured. I think enough is enough, and we should bring the troops home. This is the only way to truly support our troops!!

 

[FinnMacCool]

I agree but don't use the phrase 'Support our Troops' because thats just a propaganda slogan developed by TEAM BUSH.

 

[ban.the.electoral.college]

Military Planners Tell Bush Iraq War 'Cannot be Won'
By Staff and Wire Reports
Aug 5, 2005, 05:51

With American deaths climbing and public support falling, President Bush stubbornly says the U.S. will "stay the course" and American troops will remain in the dangerous, war-ravaged country, fighting a war that many military experts say cannot be won.

An AP-Ipsos poll taken early this week showed public support of Bush's handling of the war had dropped to 38 percent, the lowest since Bush ordered the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

But Bush, facing a grim and growing death toll, also said new threats of even more violence from al-Qaida's second-in-command would not intimidate the United States into retreat.

Yet while Bush remains stubbornly committed to the war, sources within the Pentagon say military planners tell the President the war cannot be won and the U.S. may have to look for a Vietnam-style withdrawal that will leave Iraq vulnerable to forces even more dangerous than the previous dictatorship of Saddam Hussein.

"Our present scenarios do not provide a successful outcome," admits a senior military planner. "We are not adequately equipped to prevail in this conflict."

At the same time Thursday, the U.S. military announced in Iraq that four more service members had been killed in action but the "official" military line is that American troops were making progress against insurgents.

"We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq," Bush said in Texas as a videotape by Ayman al-Zawahri, al-Qaida's No.2, was broadcast around the world.

Al-Zawahri threatened more destruction in London after subway and bus bombings and said in the videotape that the United States would suffer tens of thousands of military dead if it did not withdraw from Iraq.

Bush said that kind of talk only showed why the United States must remain in Iraq.

"They're terrorists and they're killers and they will kill innocent people ... so they can impose their dark vision on the world," Bush said as he stood alongside Colombian President Alvaro Uribe who was visiting at Bush's ranch in Texas.

Al-Zawahri's threat was broadcast a day after the deadliest roadside bombing of U.S. troops in Iraq. The death of 14 Marines in that attack was a heavy loss to the 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines based in the Cleveland suburb of Brook Park. More than 1,820 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the war in March 2003

Al-Zawahri said the cause was "aggression against Muslims," and he threatened: "If you don't leave today, certainly you will leave tomorrow, but after tens of thousands of dead and double the number of disabled and wounded."

Bush said if terrorists think they can prevail in the Middle East, "they must not have understood the nature of our country. ... As I have told the American people, people like Zawahri have an ideology that is dark, dim, backwards."

In Iraq, U.S. military spokesman Brig. Gen. Donald Alston defended operations in western Iraq, where there has been a rash of recent American deaths.

"We still have deaths. We still have suicide car bombs," he said. "But the numbers we see indicate (the insurgents) can't generate the same tempo, and I think that's because we've had some degree of effect in interdicting these forces."

Despite the deaths, he said the 13 car bombs reported in Iraq last week were the fewest in any week since April.

Still, there has been few obvious signs of progress in U.S.-led efforts to defeat the insurgency and to improve the Iraqi army and police so they can take over security responsibilities and allow the U.S. forces to leave.

And while the military tries to keep an optimistic public face the story told behind the scenes at the Pentagon is far less rosy.

"We're losing and we have no contingency plan in place to turn this conflict around," the senior military planner said. "At the present time, we are engaged in a no-win scenario."

The high recent death toll of American troops have dominated the news back home -- no help for the already-eroding public support for Bush's Iraq policy.

The AP-Ipsos poll found that only 38 percent of Americans approve of Bush's handling of Iraq, the low point so far. A year ago, the public was evenly divided on Iraq, and confidence in Bush's stance on the war and terrorism helped him to election victory.

___

On the Net:

White House: http://www.whitehouse.gov

© Copyright 2005 by Capitol Hill Blue

 

[SKILMATIC]

I would love to bring them home but what will happen if we do that today the way Iraq is now? What good will this do for the Iraqis? Will this help them in anyway if so please send me links or any evidentiary support.

I want my brothers to come home too, but we have a job and a promise to ensure. We promised to the people we would never leave them again unless majority wants us gone.

They want us there when will you understand this.

Of course there are people that dont have the same sentiment but compared to the people who want us there its no capmarison.

I love my brothers and sisters :2wave:

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

I dont care no more. Americans are that ****ing pathetic and sick. If they where better people I may care but I dont give a **** now. Poetic Justice Ill call it. I have a hard time forgiving them for this mess. I hope bush gets 400 more years.

 

[Quid Pro Quo]

You know, at first I thought you were just an angry person, YGTBK. Now, I see you're a complete moron with a chubby for biased, unfounded opinions for the sole purpose of angering people. Which, mind you, you fail at the purpose part.

But seriously now, if you're going to post in threads...atleast say something more relevant to the topic that includes some intelligence.

Let me assist you in this. This forum is called Debate Politics.

Debate is defined as: To consider something; deliberate
To engage in a formal discussion or argument

Now, I see you neither considering the idiocy of your posts nor deliberating whether or not you should post it. Instead, I am seeing you post for the sake of finger excercise.

Give us a challenge, kiddo. Can't wait to see your reply to this one.

 

[Navy Pride]

You know, at first I thought you were just an angry person, YGTBK. Now, I see you're a complete moron with a chubby for biased, unfounded opinions for the sole purpose of angering people. Which, mind you, you fail at the purpose part.

But seriously now, if you're going to post in threads...atleast say something more relevant to the topic that includes some intelligence.

Let me assist you in this. This forum is called Debate Politics.

Debate is defined as: To consider something; deliberate
To engage in a formal discussion or argument

Now, I see you neither considering the idiocy of your posts nor deliberating whether or not you should post it. Instead, I am seeing you post for the sake of finger excercise.

Give us a challenge, kiddo. Can't wait to see your reply to this one.

Right on, there should be some way to enforce and age limit so 10 year olds would not be allowed to post here...........


As far as the topic goes, we made a mistake in Vietnam because of the left whinnings and cut and run and millions died...We must not make the same mistake in Iraq..........Thank God we have a president that will not let that happen............

 

[FinnMacCool]

Yes, your right Navy because Vietnam was a completely justifed war also.

 

[Navy Pride]

Yes, your right Navy because Vietnam was a completely justifed war also.

You Libs just don't get it...........A Liberal (LBJ) put the troops in Nam...When we cut and run 58,000 Americans plus millions of Cambodians and Vietnamese died for nothing.............If you commit to something you need to finish the job not quit when you don't have the belly for it anymore........

You liberals can whine all you want but this president does no make his decisions based on the polls like Clinton did.........Our brave men and women will finish the job in Iraq..........

 

[SKILMATIC]

You liberals can whine all you want but this president does no make his decisions based on the polls like Clinton did.........Our brave men and women will finish the job in Iraq..........

HOORAH!!!

Your right we will just like we did in afghanistan. We will finish and we will prevail. No person or country will stop us.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Who gives a damn if a liberal started the war (and actually it was Kennedy who got us into it)? How is that relevant? And besides do you even know what happened after we left Vietnam?

The problem with people like you is that you guys shout "You liberal!" "You terrorist!" "You Lib!" but you have absolutely no idea what your talking aboutl. I happen to be a liberal because I support reforms but that doesn't mean that every lanti-war person is a liberal.

Oh yeah, you once had the nerve to insult me by saying that when I grew up I would be a conservative. Well thats never gonna happen. I'm not gonna be like you.

 

[ban.the.electoral.college]

BBC NEWS
Iraq war 'costlier than Vietnam'
The monthly cost to the US of the war in Iraq is now greater than the average monthly cost of the Vietnam War, a report by two anti-war groups says.

The report put costs in Iraq at $500m (£278m) a month more than in Vietnam, adjusted for inflation.

This makes Iraq the most expensive US war in the past 60 years, they say.

But an analyst from the conservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI) said the cost was small in the context of the whole US economy.

The report by the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS) and Foreign Policy in Focus (FPIF), called The Iraq Quagmire, calculates the cost of current military operations in Iraq at $5.6bn (£3.1m) every month.

By comparison, the eight-year campaign in Vietnam cost on average $5.1bn (£2.8m) a month.

'Poor preparation'

The IPS and FPIF say this is partly down to differences in the way modern war is waged.

Although there are fewer troops in Iraq than Vietnam, they are paid more and weapons are more expensive, the report says.

"Broken down per person in the US, the cost so far is $277 per person, making the Iraq War the most expensive military effort in the past 60 years," it concludes.

Co-author Erik Leaver told the BBC costs in Iraq had spiralled since 2003 because the US had not been well-prepared.

"We have deployed now roughly one million troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the numbers just keep going up and up," he said.

"We are going to continue to see costs not only from the fighting now but also from the health care of these soldiers and veterans when they come home."

'Drop in the bucket'

However Thomas Donnelly, a defence expert with the AEI, believes the eventual result of the Iraq war is more important than its cost in dollars.

"The more valued criticism is whether the Bush administration is winning the war and prosecuting it in a successful way," he said.

"So what price victory? I would say that $5bn a month is certainly something I would be willing to pay."

Mr Donnelly said the relative cost of operations in Iraq, at 2% of America's annual GDP, was less than either the Vietnam conflict at 12% or World War II at 40%.

"Although the costs of war have grown... the American economy is exponentially larger than it was in the Vietnam War years," Mr Donnelly said.

"When it [the Iraq war] is compared to the overall size of the American economy, it's really a drop in the bucket, certainly by historical standards."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/4201812.stm

Published: 2005/08/31 17:01:25 GMT

© BBC MMV

 

[Arch Enemy]

I believe we should bring home the troops, but I do agree with the Right that Iraq was linked to September 11th. I've seen pages talking about how Saddam Hussein supported the 9/11 Hijackers by means of money.. but so did Saudi Arabia. That still isn't a reason to go to war! Why can't we learn to "turn the other cheek"?

This whole "if we leave now we'll forsaken those who've given their lives for this cause!" is total non-sense. Just because they've given their life doesn't make the cause a just cause. Many pioneers gave their lives to exterminate the "Native American threat", but that doesn't make their case just. Yes, I'm sad that people have to die.. but that doesn't make their case just either.

Bring them home and give the Arab's their country they rightfully own! It's sad that the American mentality of "we're the greatest of ALL time" doesn't up hold up when we're talking about things like terrorism.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Why can't we learn to "turn the other cheek"?

Well I dont know about you but I like having the rest of my skyscrapers here they are nice to look at at times.

If you do this then its saying the terrorists won and it will even give them more pride in what they are doing.

Yes, we are ******* them off but I would rather [iss them off then give them pride in what they are doing.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Yes, we are *******

I meant to say pi$$ing

 

[ban.the.electoral.college]

More NEWS the mainstream media will surely not advertise.

August 31, 2005

Rocky Anderson

Voiced by BuzzFlash

It takes a bit of courage for the mayor of the largest city in the state that Bush won by the largest margin to call for an anti-Iraq protest, while the "Master of Disaster President" was in town. But Rocky Anderson rose to the occasion, in a way that puts fence-sitting Democrats in the Senate to shame.

Anderson e-mailed activists to encourage them to protest Bush's remarks to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who were assembled in Salt Lake City, of which Anderson just happens to be mayor. More than 2,000 people showed up to let the world know that Bush is an incompetent, lying, bumbling commander-in-chief.

In fact, the unctuous Utah Uriah Heap of the Senate, Orrin Hatch, called the protestors and Anderson nutcakes. The Mayor of Salt Lake City, however, knows that the nutcakes are the ones who let American soldiers die because a man who reached his Peter Principle level in the 7th grade is playing Risk with real men and women in our armed forces.

Americans admire people who stand up for their principles, instead of running away from them and hiding in a corner. Anderson doesn't like corners. He'd rather be in the boxing ring, punching out the truth as the nation is buffeted by sucker punch after sucker punch of lies.

Mayor Anderson of Salt Lake City, you are the modern day political "Rocky" and winner of this week's BuzzFlash "Wings of Justice Award."

* * *

The winning nominator is: Julie Zuber, Fishers, Indiana

 

[FinnMacCool]

That can't be Anger. Iraq couldn't have been linked to September 11th because Osama Bin Laden hated him, didn't he? I think he even had a quote saying that he was a bastard or something to that extent.

 

[SKILMATIC]

A bastard is a motherless child. So I dont think thats that bad. And osma loved sadaam casue he funded alot of his organization of terrorists. Remember, osama is worth more than 500,000,000bucks. I dont think osama became rich by running planes into buildings do you?

 

[FinnMacCool]

A bastard is a motherless child. So I dont think thats that bad.

Don't be a wiseass. You know what I meant.

Mind giving me a link to this evidence of funding?

 

[SKILMATIC]

Don't be a wiseass. You know what I meant.

Well since you were the first to make such a claim why dont you first give me a link.

And then I will give you several resources for my proclamations?

If you cant provide a link for yours then I think its suffice to say that this argument is finished.

 

[MSgt]

1) I thought a "bastard" was someone born out of wedlock

2) Who cares about a solid link between Iraq and 9/11? The link between the entire Middle East and 9/11 is their oppressive state and the narcotic of blame they revel in to explain away what they themselves have done to their own society....thus the terrorist. And besides that, when it comes to people like Saddam and his regime - some people just need killing.


This topic continues to run in circles. The liberal tactic when the highlighting of mundane day-to-day details stop working?........make a new thread and start all over again.


SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! (send them more ammo)

 

[SKILMATIC]

SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! (send them more ammo)

Now if I was in the heat of battle with these terrorists thats all the support I will need. HOORAH!!!

Screw going home, what in the hell am I going to do here? Watch amovie or play golf? Screw that!

 

[ban.the.electoral.college]

Who cares about a solid link between Iraq and 9/11?

SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! (send them more ammo)

Why don't you and SKLIMATIC return to Iraq, since you love guns and ammo so much? I mean, you really do not seem all too suited for civilian life.

 

[MSgt]

And you don't seem to suited for anything but.

I see you still like to pick apart other people's comments to reflect what you want them to say.

 

[FiremanRyan]

You Libs just don't get it...........A Liberal (LBJ) put the troops in Nam...When we cut and run 58,000 Americans plus millions of Cambodians and Vietnamese died for nothing.............If you commit to something you need to finish the job not quit when you don't have the belly for it anymore........

You liberals can whine all you want but this president does no make his decisions based on the polls like Clinton did.........Our brave men and women will finish the job in Iraq..........

thank you! why cant people see that its not as simple as 'pulling out'? if we cut and ran its likely that the new Iraqi government could fail and thousands could die. were doing a lot more than taking care of the insurgancy, we're there building schools and hospitals, giving aid to Iraqis, training their security forces, and lending a hand in the creation of their infant government.

we've committed to this war and need to see it through. i swear to god, i look at my peers and realize that todays generation is a bunch of quitters. is this what liberals do whenever things get tough?