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SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! (bring them home)

Support the troops. Bring them home!!


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FinnMacCool said:
Since GySgt is already jumping down my throat, let me just restate what this argument is about.

Gysgt apparently believes our precence over there is good

I don't and Kal-el doesn't either apparently

Gysgt thinks that people are being selfish when the military gets attacked but when 9/11 happened, we all the sudden wanted revenge.

But doesn't that go to the same argument before about why we are over there?

Must we always have to get into things that are absolutely none of our business?

But Skill thinks we should just nuke the middle east which, while it might destroy terrorists, will destroy civillians also including my friends family and also destroy thousands of years of history, architecture and artwork.

So Gysgt and Skill must be somehow at odds because SKill thinks we should just do away with the middle east while Gysgt thinks we should just be there? Am I missing something?

How do we always get involved? I can name you dozens of places all over the world that we aren't doing anything about, but if we were, I'm sure I could count on you to protest.
 
There is a sad truth that escapes the minds of most people in this world. Perhaps the most naïve of this lot is the average American. In America, where liberty is taken for granted and even often negatively taken advantage of, the world is a beautiful place. A place filled with happiness and justice. Life is grand in Disney Land. They cannot possibly imagine a life that is born into slavery or oppression or a life that exists or is destroyed on the whim of whoever wields the most military power. They see specific and selected occurrences on television, thanks to the media, but they dismiss such things as a tragic event that someone should do something about. Of course, this sentiment only lasts as long as it takes for the next television show to capture their attention. The sad truth is that the world needs killers.

Malevolence runs rampant in every corner of the globe. The acts of evil men are brutal, callous, and merciless. These acts are indiscriminant. Women, children, and old men are not factors to these agents of evil. There is no line drawn between military combatant and civilian. A target is distinguished only by it’s manner in which it exists. The determinate consideration in choosing who lives and who dies is based on religion, ethnicity, political opposition, and sect. These men of savagery extinguish lives as easily as they breathe. Through genocides and ethnic cleansings, they leave their mark that ruin generations to come and generations that will no longer exist. They force their will on the weak and they starve the undesirable.

Who stands in front of these kinds of people? The European Union? The United Nations? The global left, who insist that they stand for human rights? The war protester? No. The answer is America’s government. Oh sure, we do not act as often as we should and when we should, but we do act. Our foreign policy keeps the peace in many areas in order to save lives, but the problem with diplomatically keeping the peace is that not everyone is happy with peace. People get hurt and people still die. There is no way to correctly ascertain the total of conflicts that have been denied by our dealings with other nations and there is no way to count the “would-be” victims of war among the living.

Sometimes, war is the decision made. Sometimes, war is the answer that will solve many problems in one instance. War is a last resort that the American government spends billions and billions of dollars preparing for. This preparation is two fold. We prepare to kill efficiently and we prepare to save lives. Precision bombing is a technologically advanced form of the art of the sniper. In the days of old, a military target amongst a populated neighborhood, meant a carpet-bombing of the entire neighborhood. The enemy would be destroyed….but so would an untold number of civilians. In today’s bombing campaigns, missiles and bombs are laser guided by men on the ground that place themselves in danger by being behind enemy lines. They are there to save unnecessary deaths. Of course, this skill isn’t exact because military targets are in close proximity to other structures and sometimes-even share a structure with civilians, but it is proof of our noble attempts to exclude the non-combatant.

War is an inconvenient disturbance in our lives that creeps up every so often. To defeat the brutality, callousness, and the merciless of the world, an opponent of equal and greater force is necessary. This force is the U.S. military. A force that can exact the power and talent needed to avenge the weak and provide the means to a better life. As a superpower , America has an obligation and a responsibility to the less fortunate. This obligation and responsibility falls to the shoulders of men with an instinct to kill. These trained killers have a higher moral fiber than their opponents. Killers of strength that can resent the fact that civilians will accidentally die, but will still carry out their duty for the greater good. Killers that set aside their joys of surviving a fire fight in order to tend to the enemy and civilian wounded. These men, simultaneously, have the instincts to kill and save. I am not aware of any other military that will rush towards and shoot at the enemy while throwing civilians to the ground with their non shooting hand. America’s “best” understand that they can take a life while saving another and they have the conviction to do it. Their resolve is unwavering. The mission must be accomplished at all costs. They leave behind their families and fight for an effort greater than themselves. They do what you cannot.

Enter the self-appointed voice of conscious left, as they deal in mundane day-to-day details in order to derail the efforts of braver men. Enter the war profiteers as they publicly weep for America’s “victims” and make movies to declare their grief. Enter the
war protester who knows nothing of the situation or what is really the issues at hand as he chants “war is bad” or “no war for oil” and other such bumber stickeresque acclamations. Enter the voices of humanity, who remain largely silent, until they can show the errors of American action. American liberals join with America’s enemies in blaming the worlds problems on American foreign policy, because it allows them their flavor of choice – impotence. These people parade pictures of the dead, civilians and dead Marines and soldiers, to the tune of “Support the troops, not the war” or “America is the real terrorist.” The college campuses are full of the ignorant uniting for the keggers and the bandwagon chance to protest what they do not and cannot understand. (The war protesters of Vietnam were the very voters decades later that placed us in Iraq.) These kinds of people look down from their perches and are disgusted by the inhumane acts of other men. (Of course, by inhumane they mean American troops, not what we deploy to stop.) Once we were all baby killers, by ‘kids’ who merely wished to avoid the draft. Now we are all victims of American imperialism (although they showed their true colors during the Abu Ghraib affair and the Guantanamo Bay exaggerations.) America loves to send their “son’s and father’s” off to die, but soon lose interest and change their minds. We’ve seen this twice before in Somalia and Vietnam as they toy with American lives for their amusement. The hypocrisy of when they decide to care about humanity is sickening. They publicly cry about how our action is grotesque while conveniently dismissing any mention of the tyranny that existed before, but secretly they want us there. It means they don’t have to be and that they can continue to pretend that they are humanities crusaders. To them, it exonerates them from ever serving their country or from ever really fighting for humanity.
 
I have a question out of all of this, does anyone know what the general consenses about war is from the Soldiers who are actually over there? If they beleive in what they are doing would that not mean that the phrase "Support the Troops Bring Them Home" is a fraud, and in fact Support the Troops is the better description?
 
superskippy said:
I have a question out of all of this, does anyone know what the general consenses about war is from the Soldiers who are actually over there? If they beleive in what they are doing would that not mean that the phrase "Support the Troops Bring Them Home" is a fraud, and in fact Support the Troops is the better description?


I've been telling them this the whole time. "SUPPORT THE TROOPS, bring them home" is merely the PC way of spitting on our uniforms. BY phrasing their protests in this manner, they personally absolve their inadequicies to point out right and wrong no matter what the consequences.
 
How do we always get involved? I can name you dozens of places all over the world that we aren't doing anything about, but if we were, I'm sure I could count on you to protest.

Sweet jesus, you are very good at taking phraes from my posts and turning them against me but you miss the entire point once again.

What we need to do is stop with our involvement in the middle east and stop supporting people over there who are just as bad as the people we are condeming.

I do not want to die for Israel.
 
FinnMacCool said:
Sweet jesus, you are very good at taking phraes from my posts and turning them against me but you miss the entire point once again.

What we need to do is stop with our involvement in the middle east and stop supporting people over there who are just as bad as the people we are condeming.

I do not want to die for Israel.

You don't have to. Isn't America great? Military service is voluntary. I consider all of America's allies as worth it. They stand beside us, so they deserve our protection. Despite their recent 'back stabbing', even the faggity French deserve our protection. But if you wish to do your part for your country, there is always the Air Force. They have been largely safe enough through the decades.

It's easy to look at the surface of our foreign policies and to snub our noses. There are always deeper issues involved. Issues that demand certain decisions that will not be beneficial to all. A standing government that is not in the interest of your safety can sometimes be overthrown by a rebellion indirectly backed by American sponsership. That rebellion can easily prove to be worse than the former. Hindsight is always perfect. If the Iran Contra affair wasn't discovered and we were successful, where would Iran be today in terms of being a danger to the U.S.? Worse, better, about the same? By attempting such things, we keep American troops from danger and thus try to avoid a war. There is a lot of this that goes on here and there.
 
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There is a sad truth that escapes the minds of most people in this world. Perhaps the most naïve of this lot is the average American. In America, where liberty is taken for granted and even often negatively taken advantage of, the world is a beautiful place. A place filled with happiness and justice. Life is grand in Disney Land. They cannot possibly imagine a life that is born into slavery or oppression or a life that exists or is destroyed on the whim of whoever wields the most military power. They see specific and selected occurrences on television, thanks to the media, but they dismiss such things as a tragic event that someone should do something about. Of course, this sentiment only lasts as long as it takes for the next television show to capture their attention. The sad truth is that the world needs killers.

Malevolence runs rampant in every corner of the globe. The acts of evil men are brutal, callous, and merciless. These acts are indiscriminant. Women, children, and old men are not factors to these agents of evil. There is no line drawn between military combatant and civilian. A target is distinguished only by it’s manner in which it exists. The determinate consideration in choosing who lives and who dies is based on religion, ethnicity, political opposition, and sect. These men of savagery extinguish lives as easily as they breathe. Through genocides and ethnic cleansings, they leave their mark that ruin generations to come and generations that will no longer exist. They force their will on the weak and they starve the undesirable.

Who stands in front of these kinds of people? The European Union? The United Nations? The global left, who insist that they stand for human rights? The war protester? No. The answer is America’s government. Oh sure, we do not act as often as we should and when we should, but we do act. Our foreign policy keeps the peace in many areas in order to save lives, but the problem with diplomatically keeping the peace is that not everyone is happy with peace. People get hurt and people still die. There is no way to correctly ascertain the total of conflicts that have been denied by our dealings with other nations and there is no way to count the “would-be” victims of war among the living.

Sometimes, war is the decision made. Sometimes, war is the answer that will solve many problems in one instance. War is a last resort that the American government spends billions and billions of dollars preparing for. This preparation is two fold. We prepare to kill efficiently and we prepare to save lives. Precision bombing is a technologically advanced form of the art of the sniper. In the days of old, a military target amongst a populated neighborhood, meant a carpet-bombing of the entire neighborhood. The enemy would be destroyed….but so would an untold number of civilians. In today’s bombing campaigns, missiles and bombs are laser guided by men on the ground that place themselves in danger by being behind enemy lines. They are there to save unnecessary deaths. Of course, this skill isn’t exact because military targets are in close proximity to other structures and sometimes-even share a structure with civilians, but it is proof of our noble attempts to exclude the non-combatant.

War is an inconvenient disturbance in our lives that creeps up every so often. To defeat the brutality, callousness, and the merciless of the world, an opponent of equal and greater force is necessary. This force is the U.S. military. A force that can exact the power and talent needed to avenge the weak and provide the means to a better life. As a superpower , America has an obligation and a responsibility to the less fortunate. This obligation and responsibility falls to the shoulders of men with an instinct to kill. These trained killers have a higher moral fiber than their opponents. Killers of strength that can resent the fact that civilians will accidentally die, but will still carry out their duty for the greater good. Killers that set aside their joys of surviving a fire fight in order to tend to the enemy and civilian wounded. These men, simultaneously, have the instincts to kill and save. I am not aware of any other military that will rush towards and shoot at the enemy while throwing civilians to the ground with their non shooting hand. America’s “best” understand that they can take a life while saving another and they have the conviction to do it. Their resolve is unwavering. The mission must be accomplished at all costs. They leave behind their families and fight for an effort greater than themselves. They do what you cannot.

Enter the self-appointed voice of conscious left, as they deal in mundane day-to-day details in order to derail the efforts of braver men. Enter the war profiteers as they publicly weep for America’s “victims” and make movies to declare their grief. Enter the
war protester who knows nothing of the situation or what is really the issues at hand as he chants “war is bad” or “no war for oil” and other such bumber stickeresque acclamations. Enter the voices of humanity, who remain largely silent, until they can show the errors of American action. American liberals join with America’s enemies in blaming the worlds problems on American foreign policy, because it allows them their flavor of choice – impotence. These people parade pictures of the dead, civilians and dead Marines and soldiers, to the tune of “Support the troops, not the war” or “America is the real terrorist.” The college campuses are full of the ignorant uniting for the keggers and the bandwagon chance to protest what they do not and cannot understand. (The war protesters of Vietnam were the very voters decades later that placed us in Iraq.) These kinds of people look down from their perches and are disgusted by the inhumane acts of other men. (Of course, by inhumane they mean American troops, not what we deploy to stop.) Once we were all baby killers, by ‘kids’ who merely wished to avoid the draft. Now we are all victims of American imperialism (although they showed their true colors during the Abu Ghraib affair and the Guantanamo Bay exaggerations.) America loves to send their “son’s and father’s” off to die, but soon lose interest and change their minds. We’ve seen this twice before in Somalia and Vietnam as they toy with American lives for their amusement. The hypocrisy of when they decide to care about humanity is sickening. They publicly cry about how our action is grotesque while conveniently dismissing any mention of the tyranny that existed before, but secretly they want us there. It means they don’t have to be and that they can continue to pretend that they are humanities crusaders. To them, it exonerates them from ever serving their country or from ever really fighting for humanity.

Well written post but your just wrong. Peace cannot be achieved by military might alone because your enemies think the same way you do. Your right in ssaying that it is neccesary to have a people who can take away lives when neccesary but also the ability to reason is neccesary because the military isn't alway the affective way to solve problems. There needs to be a balance of both; even ying yang if you believe in that ****.

I've been telling them this the whole time. "SUPPORT THE TROOPS, bring them home" is merely the PC way of spitting on our uniforms. BY phrasing their protests in this manner, they personally absolve their inadequicies to point out right and wrong no matter what the consequences.

Okay so whoever wants to stay there I suppose can stay there heh.

You don't have to. Isn't America great? Military service is voluntary. I consider all of America's allies as worth it. They stand beside us, so they deserve our protection. Despite their recent 'back stabbing', even the faggity French deserve our protection. But if you wish to do your part for your country, there is always the Air Force. They have been largely safe enough through the decades.

Israel isn't.

Besides I wasn't reffering to military service. Didn't Bin Laden say he wouldn't distinguish between civillian and military? Why must I get killed because of some bullshit thing going on in ****ing israel?
It's easy to look at the surface of our foreign policies and to snub our noses. There are always deeper issues involved. Issues that demand certain decisions that will not be beneficial to all. A standing government that is not in the interest of your safety can sometimes be overthrown by a rebellion indirectly backed by American sponsership. That rebellion can easily prove to be worse than the former. Hindsight is always perfect. If the Iran Contra affair wasn't discovered and we were successful, where would Iran be today in terms of being a danger to the U.S.? Worse, better, about the same? By attempting such things, we keep American troops from danger and thus try to avoid a war. There is a lot of this that goes on here and there.

True.
 
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"Peace cannot be achieved by military might alone because your enemies think the same way you do."

Like I said...."Our foreign policy keeps the peace in many areas in order to save lives, but the problem with diplomatically keeping the peace is that not everyone is happy with peace. People get hurt and people still die. There is no way to correctly ascertain the total of conflicts that have been denied by our dealings with other nations and there is no way to count the “would-be” victims of war among the living."
 
Iraq is now on the verge of civil war. How have we added to the stability of the Middle East? Also, many places that once had electricity and running water no longer do. The truth is, that our presence is helping organizations like Al-Queda and Zarqawi gain recruits. If anything, we've dessimated and destabilized Iraq. Who will benefit? The military industrial complex. Bush's cronies.
 
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ban.the.electoral.college said:
Iraq is now on the verge of civil war. How have we added to the stability of the Middle East? Also, many places that once had electricity and running water no longer do. The truth is, that our presence is helping organizations like Al-Queda and Zarqawi gain recruits. If anything, we've dessimated and destabilized Iraq. Who will benefit? The military industrial complex. Bush's cronies.

Yea, Bush's military horde is Bin Laden's greatest recruiting tool. As long as there is an occupation, there will be resistance from somewhere.
 
kal-el said:
Yea, Bush's military horde is Bin Laden's greatest recruiting tool. As long as there is an occupation, there will be resistance from somewhere.

That's right. As long as the "horde" is in Iraq, there will be resistance and insurgency. After we leave, there will continue to be resistance and insurgency. The Shieks of Iraq on the Sunni side are demanding that foreign fighters stop killing Iraqis. They need to step up to the plate. A civil war might prove to be the path to take.

Incidentally, the Afghanis went to the voters booths (just like the Iraqis did) despite threats from the fundamentals. I imagine we'll see some Muslim on Muslim murder over there too.
 
ban.the.electoral.college said:
Iraq is now on the verge of civil war. How have we added to the stability of the Middle East? Also, many places that once had electricity and running water no longer do. The truth is, that our presence is helping organizations like Al-Queda and Zarqawi gain recruits. If anything, we've dessimated and destabilized Iraq. Who will benefit? The military industrial complex. Bush's cronies.

Weren't you banned?

While voicing for the Sunni's in the Saddam protected Sunni Triangle, maybe you should voice or even give a tiny shred of care that the majority of Iraq which were largely Kurds and Shi'ites, have never had electricity and running water.
 
GySgt said:
That's right. As long as the "horde" is in Iraq, there will be resistance and insurgency. After we leave, there will continue to be resistance and insurgency. The Shieks of Iraq on the Sunni side are demanding that foreign fighters stop killing Iraqis. They need to step up to the plate. A civil war might prove to be the path to take.

Incidentally, the Afghanis went to the voters booths (just like the Iraqis did) despite threats from the fundamentals. I imagine we'll see some Muslim on Muslim murder over there too.

Did you ever think we're the reason why they are in the direction of a civil war?
 
kal-el said:
Did you ever think we're the reason why they are in the direction of a civil war?

Hell yeah. It's a direction that they need. If the peaceful Muslims in the Middel East are sick of living under oppressive Arab version Islamic rule, then they should rise up against this insurgerncy and the Sunni resistance to change. I'm tired of watching terrorists kill civilians to the cheer of millions of Muslims. They need to fix their damn civilization and the sooner the better.
 
Iraq is now on the verge of civil war. How have we added to the stability of the Middle East? Also, many places that once had electricity and running water no longer do. The truth is, that our presence is helping organizations like Al-Queda and Zarqawi gain recruits. If anything, we've dessimated and destabilized Iraq. Who will benefit? The military industrial complex. Bush's cronies.

O god hes back

Yea, Bush's military horde is Bin Laden's greatest recruiting tool. As long as there is an occupation, there will be resistance from somewhere.

Not if we nuke the place there wont be. :lol:

Weren't you banned?

While voicing for the Sunni's in the Saddam protected Sunni Triangle, maybe you should voice or even give a tiny shred of care that the majority of Iraq which were largely Kurds and Shi'ites, have never had electricity and running water.

I heard it was a 3day ban.

Did you ever think we're the reason why they are in the direction of a civil war?

No it takes 2 to tango not 3. Ever think of that?
 
Hell yeah. It's a direction that they need. If the peaceful Muslims in the Middel East are sick of living under oppressive Arab version Islamic rule, then they should rise up against this insurgerncy and the Sunni resistance to change. I'm tired of watching terrorists kill civilians to the cheer of millions of Muslims. They need to fix their damn civilization and the sooner the better.

Bingo gunny. I couldnt have said it better myself.
 
Gunny (jarhead) watch those cracks about the airforce there buddy. Do you not get a check from the navy there swabbie.:lol:
 
fyrefighter said:
Gunny (jarhead) watch those cracks about the airforce there buddy. Do you not get a check from the navy there swabbie.:lol:


AIR FORCE KICKS ASS!!!!!:ind:
 
Hey Gunny and Skilly, you guys should reply to a thread I started in the History forum entitield "LA Riots". I would like to hear your input. Thanks.:smile:
 
To me pull the troops out is the best option because once you have removed oil from the equation there remains no viable strategy for the conflict. Please don't give me that "We are freeing them from thier opressor and giving them democracy". I alreasdy heard and was involved in that kind of loser project 40 years ago. IMO the bvusiness of the US Military is not teaching democracy or nation building. It is purely military. We are also losing our sense of purpose in Afghanistan which i think was if not a "good war" at least a reasonable one. Personally until things are right here at home i have no desire to help a bunch of people half way around the world that I don't even know. The idea that this conflict in Iraq is going to make the US safer etc I don't buy. Read my piece on South East Asia in the history section and you'll see more or less where i am coming from. If i wanted to be a di gooder i'd join the Salvation Army or the Red Cross but not the US Army.
 
Inuyasha said:
To me pull the troops out is the best option because once you have removed oil from the equation there remains no viable strategy for the conflict.
No viable strategy for the conflict according to who? So we pull our troops out and then what? Pretend we're all one big happy family and pray they don't come back on us? Didn't we already do that? I don't know about you but I'm not content spending my life looking over my shoulder simply to satisfy the pacifist mentality.
 
wrath said:
No viable strategy for the conflict according to who? So we pull our troops out and then what? Pretend we're all one big happy family and pray they don't come back on us? Didn't we already do that? I don't know about you but I'm not content spending my life looking over my shoulder simply to satisfy the pacifist mentality.

What do propose as a viable military strategy fore keeping an army in Iraq? And I am not being sarcastic.

If the Iraqi's do come back on us we have only ourselves to blame. We rescued them from an evil dictator. What's next then? The liberation of North Korea? The evil dictator thing doesn't wash with me when you look at history and see the ones we left in power. I say no more silly foreign invention that does not benefit the American people. The Iraq intervention could have been avoided and the only consequence would have been Saddam. People get the government they deserve. If these people want freedom they should get it on their own What are we the Red Cross. No thanks. like i said we've been through that and it has proved relativity nothing.
 
Inuyasha said:
To me pull the troops out is the best option because once you have removed oil from the equation there remains no viable strategy for the conflict. Please don't give me that "We are freeing them from thier opressor and giving them democracy". I alreasdy heard and was involved in that kind of loser project 40 years ago. IMO the bvusiness of the US Military is not teaching democracy or nation building. It is purely military. We are also losing our sense of purpose in Afghanistan which i think was if not a "good war" at least a reasonable one. Personally until things are right here at home i have no desire to help a bunch of people half way around the world that I don't even know. The idea that this conflict in Iraq is going to make the US safer etc I don't buy. Read my piece on South East Asia in the history section and you'll see more or less where i am coming from. If i wanted to be a di gooder i'd join the Salvation Army or the Red Cross but not the US Army.

:applaud My sentiments, exactly!
 
Inuyasha said:
To me pull the troops out is the best option because once you have removed oil from the equation there remains no viable strategy for the conflict. Please don't give me that "We are freeing them from thier opressor and giving them democracy". I alreasdy heard and was involved in that kind of loser project 40 years ago. IMO the bvusiness of the US Military is not teaching democracy or nation building. It is purely military. We are also losing our sense of purpose in Afghanistan which i think was if not a "good war" at least a reasonable one. Personally until things are right here at home i have no desire to help a bunch of people half way around the world that I don't even know. The idea that this conflict in Iraq is going to make the US safer etc I don't buy. Read my piece on South East Asia in the history section and you'll see more or less where i am coming from. If i wanted to be a di gooder i'd join the Salvation Army or the Red Cross but not the US Army.

Have you ever heard of Vietnam> We cut and run there because the left had no stomach to finish the job and 58,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians died for nothing.......

Thank God we have a president that will never let that happen again.....
 
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