SUPPORT THE TROOPS!! (bring them home)

[SKILMATIC]

Well, if that's the case, I guess "God" wanted the twin towers to explode, killing 2,700 Americans. So your saying if some of our warplanes intervened, we wouldn't be able to stop it, cause some mystical entity wanted it to happen?

You are getting waaay off tangeant here. I thought you didnt beleive in God? Now you are using this as a proof to your argument? I make no sense of you.

 

[kal-el]

Originally posted by SKILMATIC
You are getting waaay off tangeant here. I thought you didnt beleive in God? Now you are using this as a proof to your argument? I make no sense of you.

I don't. I was merley using the example of "God" as a lever.Much of like you guys seem to do so often.

That is the lamest argument ever. Especially whne you use God for your argument. An entity you have no beleif in. That is plain low. How low can you go? Using jesus christ(somehting you dont even beleive in) to back up your argument. I think I might have created a beleiver after all. hahahhahha

How, pry tell, did you ever get the idiotic notion that I don't believe in the Christ?

Well this is what I was trying to tell you and on one hand you keep saying we shouldnt get involved casue we are late and on the other you say well what about this place that has genocide? The argument isnt sustaining I hope you understand this.

I didn't quite get what you are trying to communicate here?

Yes he did!!!

http://antimedia.blogspot.com/2004/0...sadaam-al.html

Please read the lower portion more indepth so you can fully understand that the hogus bogus lies the media will give you.

:rofl , please, Like I'm going to belive 1 source. Come up with some concrete evidence then maybe I'll take your arguement seriously.

 

[MSgt]

Of course not.




Well, if that's the case, I guess "God" wanted the twin towers to explode, killing 2,700 Americans. So your saying if some of our warplanes intervened, we wouldn't be able to stop it, cause some mystical entity wanted it to happen?

I believe that God gave man free will and man commits violence on his own. If there is a God, then our choices in life will be dealt with in the end.

I don't get into these types of topics. My views on God are not up for debate.

 

[kal-el]

I believe that God gave man free will and man commits violence on his own. If there is a God, then our choices in life will be dealt with in the end.

Free will? Don't forget, no one can have free will without freedom. Freedom is essiential for free will. But, doing good is our free choice. With my hand, I can massage, or kill. Just with a single hand, we can kill, one punch can be deadly, one hand can strangle.On the flip side, with 1 hand we can caress, help, or save with 1 hand. So, it's not the tool that's important, it's the way we use it.

 

[MSgt]

Free will? Don't forget, no one can have free will without freedom. Freedom is essiential for free will. But, doing good is our free choice. With my hand, I can massage, or kill. Just with a single hand, we can kill, one punch can be deadly, one hand can strangle.On the flip side, with 1 hand we can caress, help, or save with 1 hand. So, it's not the tool that's important, it's the way we use it.

Free will does not equal freedom. I can be the most oppressed man on earth under the worst regime on earth and I can exercise my "free will" and kill my neighbor. You make your own decisions in life. You are not controlled by a "diety." This is what I mean by free will.

 

[kal-el]

You make your own decisions in life. You are not controlled by a "diety." This is what I mean by free will.

Agreed. I said this before, but we aren't powerless,obedient,pawns, in some kind of "divine" game being played out.

 

[fyrefighter]

If we would have cut and run from Japan after WW2 where would they be now. Do you think they rebuilt overnight? If you leave now they will think they can win every time so they will never stop. Remember they say that the Koran is telling them to kill the infidel and that includes whiners. Gunny you are wasting your breath or your fingers typing about this because some people just do not get it.

 

[kal-el]

If we would have cut and run from Japan after WW2 where would they be now. Do you think they rebuilt overnight? If you leave now they will think they can win every time so they will never stop. Remember they say that the Koran is telling them to kill the infidel and that includes whiners. Gunny you are wasting your breath or your fingers typing about this because some people just do not get it.

Dude, I wasn't aware that we invaded the Japanease homeland during WW11?

 

[fyrefighter]

Dude your right my mistake I did not realize we didn't move a shitload of troops in after they surrendered. I also forgot Mcarther didn't stay there and formed there new government and rebuild the country. Thanks

 

[kal-el]

Dude your right my mistake I did not realize we didn't move a shitload of troops in after they surrendered. I also forgot Mcarther didn't stay there and formed there new government and rebuild the country. Thanks

Correct me if I am wrong here, but I do'nt think we invaded Japanbefore the a-bombs were launched?:smile:

 

[fyrefighter]

Did I say we invaded Japan before the A bomb? Sorry Dude.

 

[kal-el]

Did I say we invaded Japan before the A bomb? Sorry Dude.

Thats cool. Don't worry about it.:smile:

 

[SKILMATIC]

Did I say we invaded Japan before the A bomb? Sorry Dude.

I dont see where you say that. Mabe kal-el is seeing things as he does sometimes. He does this to me too.
:lol: :2wave:

 

[kal-el]

I dont see where you say that. Mabe kal-el is seeing things as he does sometimes. He does this to me too.
:lol: :2wave:

Skilly, if you read post #733, he implied that we invaded the homeland.I was probably wrong when I assumed he met before the A-bombs. Anyway, I knew you would throw in your 2 cents sometime.:smile:

 

[SKILMATIC]

Yeah but I knew you would enjoy my cents lol.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Dude your right my mistake I did not realize we didn't move a shitload of troops in after they surrendered. I also forgot Mcarther didn't stay there and formed there new government and rebuild the country. Thanks

We did move troops into Japan after the surrender. We just didn't drop 200,000 in there lap

 

[fyrefighter]

No, you are right we did not drop 200,000 we dropped 350,000 troops in thier lap.

On September 2, Japan formally surrendered, signing the Japanese Instrument of Surrender, and the occupation began. Allied (primarily American) forces supervised the country. General MacArthur was technically supposed to defer to an advisory council set up by the Allied powers, but in practice did everything himself. His first priority was to set up a food distribution network; following the collapse of the ruling government, and the wholesale destruction of most major cities, virtually everyone was starving.


Douglas MacArthur and Emperor HirohitoOnce the food network was in place, at a cost of up to US$1 million a day, MacArthur set out to win the support of Hirohito. The two men met for the first time on September 28; the photograph of the two together is one of the most famous in Japanese history. With the sanction of Japan's reigning monarch, MacArthur now had the ammunition he needed to begin the real work of the Occupation. While other Allied political and military leaders pushed for Hirohito to be tried as a war criminal, MacArthur resisted such calls, arguing that any such prosecution would be overwhelmingly unpopular with the Japanese people.

By the end of 1945, more than 350,000 US personnel were stationed throughout Japan.

Heres the link if you want to read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_Japan#The_end_of_the_occupation

 

[kal-el]

Yeah but I knew you would enjoy my cents lol.

Yea Skilly, even though we have very differing views, I still enjoy debating with you. You keep me on my feet.:smile:

 

[Calm2Chaos]

No, you are right we did not drop 200,000 we dropped 350,000 troops in thier lap.

On September 2, Japan formally surrendered, signing the Japanese Instrument of Surrender, and the occupation began. Allied (primarily American) forces supervised the country. General MacArthur was technically supposed to defer to an advisory council set up by the Allied powers, but in practice did everything himself. His first priority was to set up a food distribution network; following the collapse of the ruling government, and the wholesale destruction of most major cities, virtually everyone was starving.


Douglas MacArthur and Emperor HirohitoOnce the food network was in place, at a cost of up to US$1 million a day, MacArthur set out to win the support of Hirohito. The two men met for the first time on September 28; the photograph of the two together is one of the most famous in Japanese history. With the sanction of Japan's reigning monarch, MacArthur now had the ammunition he needed to begin the real work of the Occupation. While other Allied political and military leaders pushed for Hirohito to be tried as a war criminal, MacArthur resisted such calls, arguing that any such prosecution would be overwhelmingly unpopular with the Japanese people.

By the end of 1945, more than 350,000 US personnel were stationed throughout Japan.

Heres the link if you want to read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_Japan#The_end_of_the_occupation

Aighty.. So we did invade and occupy Japan... Seemed to work out pretty good for them

 

[fyrefighter]

We did not invade, we moved in after they surrendered. That was the whole reason why the bombs were dropped. See post 733 it says (after they surrendered) What I am saying is if you cut and run now you have only done the job halfway and the lives that have been spent so far will have been for nothing. Right or wrong finish the job. Maybe if Iraq makes it long enough to prosper and gives its whole population the benefits of its oil fields the standard of living can go really high for citizens living in a country surrounded by dictatorships or if you prefer royal families. What do you think the Iranian population will do if they see Iraqis as a whole living much better than they are with a lot of freedom? If democracy can succeed there it will be an infection to the suppressed people of the surrounding countries. I dint have the answers, but I have thought some on it. In my humble opinion it is imperative not to treat our troops sacrifices already given lightly by running away.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

We did not invade, we moved in after they surrendered. That was the whole reason why the bombs were dropped. See post 733 it says (after they surrendered) What I am saying is if you cut and run now you have only done the job halfway and the lives that have been spent so far will have been for nothing. Right or wrong finish the job. Maybe if Iraq makes it long enough to prosper and gives its whole population the benefits of its oil fields the standard of living can go really high for citizens living in a country surrounded by dictatorships or if you prefer royal families. What do you think the Iranian population will do if they see Iraqis as a whole living much better than they are with a lot of freedom? If democracy can succeed there it will be an infection to the suppressed people of the surrounding countries. I dint have the answers, but I have thought some on it. In my humble opinion it is imperative not to treat our troops sacrifices already given lightly by running away.

Guess that depends on your definiton of invade.

But I agree with you. If you leave now the job is only half done. And they have no chance but submit to the strongest terrorist organization. Not to mention completely negating the sacrifices of some 2000 soldiers.

 

[MSgt]

Guess that depends on your definiton of invade.

But I agree with you. If you leave now the job is only half done. And they have no chance but submit to the strongest terrorist organization. Not to mention completely negating the sacrifices of some 2000 soldiers.

This is true. However, many of us feel that a failed Iraq will not be an insult to our deaths. They died for a noble effort, despite everyone's attempt to mirk the deed by cluttering up the moral issue with "WMD" and "Bush lies."

What is fact is that despite our greatest efforts, the success or failure of a new and improved Iraq is in the hands of the Iraqis. We've done all we can do and the rest is up to them. Quite frankly, we are hoping against hope. The Middle East is so full of hate and anger, that they are mostly incapable of living together without the occasional slaughtering. This region varies in mass numbers from pascive Islamic beliefs to the most extreme zealousy an individual can be. The new Iraqi government is facing the latter and the Middle East has millions and millions of zealots.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

This is true. However, many of us feel that a failed Iraq will not be an insult to our deaths. They died for a noble effort, despite everyone's attempt to mirk the deed by cluttering up the moral issue with "WMD" and "Bush lies."

What is fact is that despite our greatest efforts, the success or failure of a new and improved Iraq is in the hands of the Iraqis. We've done all we can do and the rest is up to them. Quite frankly, we are hoping against hope. The Middle East is so full of hate and anger, that they are mostly incapable of living together without the occasional slaughtering. This region varies in mass numbers from pascive Islamic beliefs to the most extreme zealousy an individual can be. The new Iraqi government is facing the latter and the Middle East has millions and millions of zealots.

It just doesn't seem like the people are very eager to take there destiny in their own hands. Maybe it's unrealistic to assume they would come out against the very people that are targeting them. But I would love to see the civilian population working with the soldiers and the local police force to track down these guys that are in all reallity hunting Iraqis

 

[MSgt]

It just doesn't seem like the people are very eager to take there destiny in their own hands. Maybe it's unrealistic to assume they would come out against the very people that are targeting them. But I would love to see the civilian population working with the soldiers and the local police force to track down these guys that are in all reallity hunting Iraqis

It does seem that way. But keep in mind that abuse and oppression is all these people know. They don't have the deep rooted "fight for your rights" mentality that we do. They also are guided by Islam which isn't the most "equality encouraging" religion in history.

There are stories of Iraqi soldiers and Marines in fire fights against the enemy that have demonstrated the Iraqi's will to fight bravely. The military intel is mostly made up of info that we get from local Iraqi's. My concern is that after we leave their will to fight might drain and they will just succumb to what ever power blows in.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Yea Skilly, even though we have very differing views, I still enjoy debating with you. You keep me on my feet.

Likewise my good friend. Also dont take any thing personal i just get woorded up incase if you havent noticed lol.