story on israeli withdrawal

[Tashah]

Even though the Palestinian response does not look promising, I think its mportant for Israel to take steps like the pullout to show that they are serious about giving the Palestinians autonomy. Otherwise - how can we ever expect the Palestianians to lower their aims in return?

Israel withdrew from Gaza unilaterally and peacefully. So far, there has been no corresponding gesture of peaceful intentions and good-will from the Palestinians.

It isn't a question of Palestinians 'lowering' their historical aim (pushing Israel into the sea), but one of forevermore casting that unobtainable goal into the ash-heap of history.

I cannot emphasize this more clearly... Israel is not going anywhere. The sooner the Palestinians recognize and accept this truism, the sooner peace and prosperity can reign in the region. Israel has extended the proverbial olive branch and so far, it is withering in the barrenness of Palestinian reciprocity.

 

[robin]

The Palestinians were there first?.......

The Hebrew (Jewish) kingdom was established in Palestine around 1000 B.C. They were subsequently invaded by Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Romans, and Alexander the Great. Arabs took it in 630 B.C. The Christian Crusades began. The Muslims ruled Israel until the 20th Century. The British took it from the Turks during WWI and governed the area under a League of Nations mandate in 1923. Hitler's genocide of 6 milliion jews brought increased international interests in a Jewish nation. The State of Israel was proclaimed by England and admitted to the UN in 1949. The U.S. recognized Israel within hours. The VERY NEXT day, Muslims from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq invaded. Israel has been fighting for their existence ever since. This is why during the Gulf War, Saddam was killing civillians by launching scuds at Isreal instead of at us. He wanted Israel to defend themselves, so he and the rest of the Muslims could turn it into one of their holy wars. We knew this and that is why we instructed Israel to stay neutral while we tried to knock out scuds with patriots before they impacted on Israeli civillians. Because we back Israel's right to exist, the Muslims can't do a thing about it except terrorize American civillians as a form of sick defiance and they mask it all under their religion and our foreign policy.


"If Israel wants peace, or at least for a lil while, they should just attack the palestinians and push them out."

For once, you agree with me, but this would bring Iran and Syria down from their perches and have to get directly involved. America no longer possess the unifying strength or resolve to finish a fight against evil that it once had.

GY are you willing to return your garden back to the North American Indians ? Only they were there a lot more recently than the Jews were in Palestine. Incidently... is it possible to show a pure genetic connection to people 20 generations ago, or is Israel merely a place for the Judaism meme to exist & for people that wish attach that particular tribalistic label to themselves ?
Incidently I do admire this collection of people known as the Jews, whatever it means. They are so hard working & enterprising. A bit like me really, but then there's Jewish blood in me :2razz:

 

[vergiss]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050924/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians


Screw these bastards. If I was the President, I would declare war on Islam. I have stated before as have every military analyst since the 80's, that the Islamics do not want peace with anybody. They are only interested in killing "infidels". They do not care about the Israeli attempts for peace by giving them the Gaza strip. They do not even care for peace within their own religion. They kill each other over who believes in their god more. These people are animals and they only want power over others. They have taken the Nazi's place as the scourge of humanity and our world is full of weaklings that are still trying to give a flower to an alligator. What do you think now 'clone.'

In the immortal words of GySgt Gary Wilcox.....**** 'em.

Woah, mate. Calm yourself. Hate the terrorists, but not the innocents. Otherwise, you'll find you have more in common than you ever wanted.

Tashah - very well put. :applaud

 

[MSgt]

Woah, mate. Calm yourself. Hate the terrorists, but not the innocents. Otherwise, you'll find you have more in common than you ever wanted.

Tashah - very well put. :applaud

And just who do you think these terrorists are? Who do you think the millions and milions of cheerleaders are? You think this failing civilization and their brand of Islam is made up of only a few rogues?

 

[MSgt]

GY are you willing to return your garden back to the North American Indians ? Only they were there a lot more recently than the Jews were in Palestine. Incidently... is it possible to show a pure genetic connection to people 20 generations ago, or is Israel merely a place for the Judaism meme to exist & for people that wish attach that particular tribalistic label to themselves ?
Incidently I do admire this collection of people known as the Jews, whatever it means. They are so hard working & enterprising. A bit like me really, but then there's Jewish blood in me :2razz:

That wasn't the point. The point was that if people are going to use history as an excuse for jackassery, they should use it all, not just the past 100 years.

Israel is Israel. If the Palestinians had extinguished their animalistic behaviors decades ago, I would venture to say that they would have free access to the "holy lands" by now. Instead they have chosen to revel in their hatreds and bigotries, with Iran's encouragement, and target Israeli civilians. There are reports that Al-Qued is starting to nest there. Egypt is even having to get involved. This whole thing is about blow up again and the reason for it is appeasement.

 

[MSgt]

Until the "innocents" start distinguishing themselves from the terrorists and zealots, they are among them. This "politically correct" mentality is someday going to bite us in the ass.

 

[superskippy]

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/new...181304Z_01_DIT377326_RTRUKOC_0_UK-MIDEAST.xml

A top Islamic Jihad Commander has been assasinated.
We are striking back against terrorism.

 

[Tashah]

A top Islamic Jihad Commander has been assasinated.
We are striking back against terrorism.

I have initiated a new thread on these breaking Gaza developments in the Todays News category...'Palestinians Lose Control Again'

 

[robin]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050924/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

Screw these bastards. If I was the President, I would declare war on Islam. I have stated before as have every military analyst since the 80's, that the Islamics do not want peace with anybody. They are only interested in killing "infidels". They do not care about the Israeli attempts for peace by giving them the Gaza strip. They do not even care for peace within their own religion. They kill each other over who believes in their god more. These people are animals and they only want power over others. They have taken the Nazi's place as the scourge of humanity and our world is full of weaklings that are still trying to give a flower to an alligator. What do you think now 'clone.'

In the immortal words of GySgt Gary Wilcox.....**** 'em.

I see this as a topic of another thread...... 'The striking similarities between hardline Americans & Bin Laden'

"That wasn't the point. The point was that if people are going to use history as an excuse for jackassery, they should use it all, not just the past 100 years."

I don't understand that as an answer to my question... GY are you willing to return your garden back to the North American Indians ?
I guess you can't answer it if the truth be known eh GY ?

 

[robin]

Incidently GY.. there's a post for you about SDI on the 'strategegic....' thread.

 

[MSgt]

I see this as a topic of another thread...... 'The striking similarities between hardline Americans & Bin Laden'


I don't understand that as an answer to my question... GY are you willing to return your garden back to the North American Indians ?
I guess you can't answer it if the truth be known eh GY ?

Hell no. I didn't answer it because it made no sense to the thread. What the hell does that have to do with anything? The right of conquest is just that. America is what it is today and it will stay that way. As is every other country around the globe. History has developed and shaped the borders. Crying about who was there first is irrelevant. The reason I threw some history into this discussion, was because someone tried to erronously use it by saying that the "Palestinians were there first."

 

[MSgt]

Incidently GY.. there's a post for you about SDI on the 'strategegic....' thread.

I've already told you, you aren't worth debating with. Your interests lie in bashing America and bogging the discussion into symantics. (All the while, hailing from one of the countries that have caused much of the damage around the globe through colonizations and resource raping that America now gets the bad rap for.) Your attempts to draw me into a discussion about the "Star Wars" program is more of the same. I made a well known statement and you are trying to argue the nuts and bolts. I'm not interested.

 

[robin]

The right of conquest is just that. Crying about who was there first is irrelevant."

Once again GYsgt, I see no difference in the nature of your utterances & those of a Muslim extremist !
Apparently anyone that is not of your culture, cannot expect to own anything for too long. They can expect to have it taken from them & not expect to have it returned & they can expect their land to be taken over by the ideology of the conquerer & system of belief & sense of values of the conquerer without redress!

 

[robin]

Your attempts to draw me into a discussion about the "Star Wars" program is more of the same. I made a well known statement and you are trying to argue the nuts and bolts. I'm not interested.

Not interested in any kind of real debate then. Not interested into being drawn into the facts. Nut's & bolts are the essence & you're not interested. Are you all there upstairs ?

 

[MSgt]

Once again GYsgt, I see no difference in the nature of your utterances & those of a Muslim extremist !
Apparently anyone that is not of your culture, cannot expect to own anything for too long. They can expect to have it taken from them & not expect to have it returned & they can expect their land to be taken over by the ideology of the conquerer & system of belief & sense of values of the conquerer without redress!

Reaching for an empty branch. I see you still choose to be the voice of the extremists and Baathist loyalists. America and your Queen's troops will leave Iraq eventually and the majority of Iraqi's that want us to remain there for the time being, will be on their own. This is the difference between conquering and liberating. Name one place on Earth, where America has gone to war, conquered, and planted the flag of supremacy over it. Shall we start with the British instead? We can even throw the America's into that list.

 

[robin]

Reaching for an empty branch. America and your Queen's troops will leave Iraq eventually and the majority of Iraqi's that want us to remain there for the time being, will be on their own. This is the difference between conquering and liberating. Name one place on Earth, where America has gone to war, conquered, and planted the flag of supremacy over it. Shall we start with the British instead? We can even throw the America's into that list.

I can be honest about the British. If the British did bad things I would not deny it. Only the truth interest me. Not some deluded view that my country does no wrong. Besides my country is not me so those wrongs are not done by me. Will you be as honest about the USA ?

"Name one place on Earth, where America has gone to war, conquered, and planted the flag of supremacy over it."
It's not done in that way by America. It's more incidious & sneaky than that. It's done in a way where America tries to make out it's squeeky clean.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

http://www.notinourname.net/war/coming-wars-17jan05.htm

http://www.soaw.org/new/

 

[MSgt]

I can be honest about the British. If the British did bad things I would not deny it. Only the truth interest me. Not some deluded view that my country does no wrong. Besides my country is not me so those wrongs are not done by me. Will you be as honest about the USA ?

"Name one place on Earth, where America has gone to war, conquered, and planted the flag of supremacy over it."
It's not done in that way by America. It's more incidious & sneaky than that. It's done in a way where America tries to make out it's squeeky clean.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

http://www.notinourname.net/war/coming-wars-17jan05.htm

http://www.soaw.org/new/

I thought you were only interested in "facts?" You said "conquer" and you then go into the grey matter?

When will you people learn. America's made many mistakes to appease and create a false peace between countries in which the countries of Europe have also benifitted. I have stated as much and much more elequently than most.

 

[robin]

GYsgt you made a statement about SDI without knowing how feasible SDI is or was. SDI would practically need a change in the laws of Physics for it to be feasable for the reasons I gave.
It was the offering from our Walter Mitty type friend Mr Raygun who must have been watching too much Flash Gordon & taken it too seriously, to the defence contracters who funded his election campaign, as an alternative to & in return for them letting him reduce missile numbers. I think Nancy's astrologer must have suggested that Star Wars would be a good idea :lol:
I pointed this out to you & you are not interested. How can you expect people to bother debate with you when you will not stand corrected on anything & don't you read posts properly ?
Have you bothered to follow the links re the USA & the dictators it had supported ?
I suggest you refer to my
Who are worse... Hardline Americans or Hardline Muslims ? thread on the 'Polls' forum. You are gaining some notoriety.

 

[MSgt]

GYsgt you made a statement about SDI without knowing how feasible SDI is or was. SDI would practically need a change in the laws of Physics for it to be feasable for the reasons I gave.
It was the offering from our Walter Mitty type friend Mr Raygun who must have been watching too much Flash Gordon & taken it too seriously, to the defence contracters who funded his election campaign, as an alternative to & in return for them letting him reduce missile numbers. I think Nancy's astrologer must have suggested that Star Wars would be a good idea :lol:
I pointed this out to you & you are not interested. How can you expect people to bother debate with you when you will not stand corrected on anything & don't you read posts properly ?
Have you bothered to follow the links re the USA & the dictators it had supported ?
I suggest you refer to my
Who are worse... Hardline Americans or Hardline Muslims ? thread on the 'Polls' forum. You are gaining some notoriety.

I am not interested, because it had nothing to do with what I said. You also did not correct me.

1) I never said that "Star Wars" worked.

2) I never said that "Stat Wars" was going to work.

What I did say was that Soviet Communism failed because it could not compete any more on many different economic levels and that the "Star Wars" program was the last straw.

Try not to include yourself with the crowd. It is you that has made yourself stand apart with debating. I believe if you go back to your silly attempt at a military themed thread, that I wasn't the only one that decided to dismiss you.

As far as the dictators that America has supported...no ****!

How many times has European interests been served because American Government has supported stability? How much undisrupted oil does Europe benifit through our keeping the peace between Sunni and Shi'ite? How has the drug trafficking to America been slowed by American Government supporting dicatators in South America. How many times has American Government in-directly supported rebels to over throw their dictators just to later turn into the same tyranny that they rebelled against?

Get over it.

Maybe we should discuss European colonization and the raping on natural resources? Maybe we should discuss India. Maybe South Africa. Maybe we should discuss the entire third world that is now suffering because of early and not so long ago European occupation?

Get over it.

Any discussion with you is always geared around bashing America.

and by the way....Hard line Americans vs. Hardline Muslims? Proves my point. You are clueless.

 

[robin]

As far as the dictators that America has supported...no ****!

So you think that's fine ? How fit are you to decide or judge what is right for people if your ethics sink so low as to approve of installing thugs in power ?

How many times has European interests been served because American Government has supported stability? How has the drug trafficking to America been slowed by American Government supporting dicatators in South America. How many times has American Government in-directly supported rebels to over throw their dictators just to later turn into the same tyranny that they rebelled against?

Half the thugs you've installed have been drug dealers. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/interviews/gregorie.html

Any discussion with you is always geared around bashing America.

You are American & you make absurd claims & claim wrong things to be right just becuase they were done by America so it's pretty obvious why a debate with you heads in the direction of 'bashing America' as you call it.

and by the way....Hard line Americans vs. Hardline Muslims? Proves my point. You are clueless.

No it proves there are striking similarities between hardline Americans such as yourself & hardline Muslims.

 

[vergiss]

Until the "innocents" start distinguishing themselves from the terrorists and zealots, they are among them. This "politically correct" mentality is someday going to bite us in the ass.

Politically correct? How how about just fair? The terrorists don't care about innocent people, either. Maybe you can bond with them over that. Don't you see the hypocrisy in your statements?

What the hell are the majority of good Muslim people meant to do? Spend all day wearing a sign on their foreheads that says "I'm not evil!"?

And just who do you think these terrorists are? Who do you think the millions and milions of cheerleaders are? You think this failing civilization and their brand of Islam is made up of only a few rogues?

The terrorists are Muslim. Big whoop. They are only a few rogues. Believe me, if every single Muslim on the planet was a terrorist - we'd be screwed. As it stands, we have a far, far greater chance of dying of breast/prostate cancer than at the hands of some idiot with a crush on bin Laden. In case you hadn't noticed, the fanatics spend half the time blowing other Muslims up. They're fundamentalists and they're wrong, but they're definitely not the majority of Muslims.

People who march into abortion clinics with pipebombs are Christian, but you don't see me denouncing and hating all Christians. Doing so would be stupid.

 

[MSgt]

So you think that's fine ? How fit are you to decide or judge what is right for people if your ethics sink so low as to approve of installing thugs in power ?

Half the thugs you've installed have been drug dealers
You are American & you make absurd claims & claim wrong thiings to be right just becuase they were done by America so it's pretty obvious why a debate with you heads in the direction of 'bashin America' as you call it.

No it proves there are striking similarities between you.

You act as if the American Government goes out and finds the worst guy and then places him in power. It didn't place the Taliban in power. That's just what happened. Hindsight is 20/20 and it is not the American Government's responsibility to hold everyone's hand past the event. And it doesn't matter how fit I am. How fit I am is of no relevence. This might surprise you, but it doesn't matter what you or I approve of. We just aren't that important. What I will do is make the tough decision for the greater good. That's how sound my morallity is. I will not hide behind the "morality" issue to remain impotent to the responsibility of doing what needs to be done.

That's right. Just like backing Iraq over Iran to keep the balance of stability, the American Government chooses the lesser of two evils. The drug flow into America will forever be a problem. The only way to regulate it is to at least make attempts to control it through dictators. It's called doing the things that people do not approve of, regardless of the fact that it is in their best interest.

Bashing America is always on your agenda. I only have this problem consistently with you. Regardless of the similarities, choose a side. Your government has. And they have chosen because your interests are at the heart of their matters. Keeping the oil flowing to your country is a direct result of American involvement in the Middle East. OH...those evil Americans. Enjoy your oil.

 

[MSgt]

Politically correct? How how about just fair? The terrorists don't care about innocent people, either. Maybe you can bond with them over that. Don't you see the hypocrisy in your statements?

What the hell are the majority of good Muslim people meant to do? Spend all day wearing a sign on their foreheads that says "I'm not evil!"?



The terrorists are Muslim. Big whoop. They are only a few rogues. Believe me, if every single Muslim on the planet was a terrorist - we'd be screwed. As it stands, we have a far, far greater chance of dying of breast/prostate cancer than at the hands of some idiot with a crush on bin Laden. In case you hadn't noticed, the fanatics spend half the time blowing other Muslims up. They're fundamentalists and they're wrong, but they're definitely not the majority of Muslims.

People who march into abortion clinics with pipebombs are Christian, but you don't see me denouncing and hating all Christians. Doing so would be stupid.

I hear this word "hypocricy" alot. It's hilarious how people throw it around to make themselves feel better about their lack of identification to the subject. Politically correct is exactly what it is. Fair is sending Marines and soldiers over to take out a dictator and his regime. Fair is trying to weed through the impotent Islamists to target the militant zealosy that is permitted to hide among them. Taking reponsibility for one's own life is a reponsibility we all have. There is no hypocricy. My statement meant that as long as they remain among the terrorists and harbor them and protect them and cheer for them, then they are guilty. Harboring a criminal is a crime in America. You are familiar with this? The hard-core terrorists spawned by the breakdown of the Middle East quote the Koran. They wear Muslim garments. They perform the daily rituals prescribed by the faith into which they were born. But all of us, in the West and the Middle East, have mistaken the identity of these butchers. They are not simply “rogues” of Islam. This is a civilization. And why would I believe you? What would you know about it? Maybe you should believe me. The terrorists may believe that they're good Muslims — self-awareness is not a widespread human trait — but their deeds are those of the pagans Mohammed condemned. They are blaspheming against what many peaceful brethren in the Middle east are desperately trying to hold on to, but they are powerless. To speak against them, is to turn your back on the extremists god.

I am so sick of ignorance. Where on this entire site have I said that this is a Muslim problem? Where have I ever said that this a problem of most Muslims? The problem is Islam in the Middle East. The majority of Muslims live in Indonesia and India. Must I say this on ever damn post? The majority of not peaceful but passive Muslims in the Middle East should take control of their hijacked religion and protest. Wearing a sign isn't necessary.

You might as well stop bringing up abortion clinics with me, because you won't get away with it. The handful of misguided Christians that have blown up abortion clinics do not have millions and millions of supporters that come out and cheer for the dead. Nor do they get preached to by legions of preachers that killing for God will gain you favor. This would be more of that politically correct garbage I was talking about. Refusing to see the truth of that region, won't make it go away and it wont stop them from spreading their violence.

 

[robin]

You act as if the American Government goes out and finds the worst guy and then places him in power.

But in many cases it has !
The attitude has been... Any SOB as long as he's ours.
Haven't you read the links ?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US...dictators.html

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

http://www.notinourname.net/war/coming-wars-17jan05.htm

http://www.soaw.org/new/

 

[MSgt]

But in many cases it has !
The attitude has been... Any SOB as long as he's ours.
Haven't you read the links ?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US...dictators.html

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

http://www.notinourname.net/war/coming-wars-17jan05.htm

http://www.soaw.org/new/

Yeah I read your links and I have read many other links and books and such. Nothing new here. Like I have said R-E-P-E-A-T-E-D-L-Y, at the heart of every matter, lies the American interest.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, I could be one of those CIA spooks that does the undesired action for my country. I would not have a problem with it. You might be surprised to know that your country has similar agents that partake in what you condemn for your well being. In Somalia, we used to hand off certain prisoners to the Belgians to extract information about gun runners into the towns and cities. They were not restricted to the "Laws of War" that American troops are supposed to adhere to. It's not a pretty world and it takes dispicable acts to secure a greater security.