Stats compared: UK stabbings 2018 vs US shootings 2018 (1 Viewer)

[Slingshot Bob]

US is behind us on so many levels now. From high speed trains, internet speed, General infrastructure, social aspects like time off work etc, general happiness etc etc etc.
Who cares what that dying country thinks anymore.

lol, we are much freer than you, a subject to the crown who cant carry a pocket knife larger than a tiny pen knife. If that is how you feel about the US why are you posting on a US forum? Surely a superior Brit forum exists.

 

[PoS]

Now you're ignoring the crime statistics all together because we're the land of the free and blah blah blah? Loving your country is recognizing when it has a problem, not making up bull**** to try to cover up its blemishes. The crime rate has nothing to do with immigrants wanting or not wanting to enter the US, you're attempting to distract.

The thread is about comparing violent crime rates in the US and the UK and the facts speak for themselves. In America you're dramatically more likely to be murdered than in the UK. That is a fact.

True, but this is comparing apples to oranges. The US and UK may share the same language, but the culture and attitudes of people are very different.

 

[ElChupacabra]

lol, we are much freer than you, a subject to the crown who cant carry a pocket knife larger than a tiny pen knife. If that is how you feel about the US why are you posting on a US forum? Surely a superior Brit forum exists.

The topic is a comparison between UK stabbings and US shootings. Insight from people in Britain makes perfect sense. More importantly, differing views are what make discussions insightful instead of boring circle jerks.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

The topic is a comparison between UK stabbings and US shootings. Insight from people in Britain makes perfect sense. More importantly, differing views are what make discussions insightful instead of boring circle jerks.

This is true, but the sanctimonious bashing from a foreigner will get recoil. Do you agree with him the US is a "dying country"?

The saying goes, mow your own yard. And in his own words "who cares what that dying country thinks" you may want to have your conversation with him.

 

[ElChupacabra]

This is true, but the sanctimonious bashing from a foreigner will get recoil. Do you agree with him the US is a "dying country"?

The saying goes, mow your own yard. And in his own words "who cares what that dying country thinks" you may want to have your conversation with him.

In some ways yes. I think the current hyper polarization will take us down that path if we're not wise enough to turn it around. A country is kept alive because its citizens share the same general ideals and are willing to compromise on the ones they don't. The moment that's lost, then yes, the country begins to die. Not having common purpose makes it easy for a country to be fractured to the point cooperation becomes difficult; lose that and you become a and you're on a downward spiral. I'm an optimist who thinks there's still a chance things will turnaround, but the current environment makes maintaining that optimism pretty difficult.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

In some ways yes. I think the current hyper polarization will take us down that path if we're not wise enough to turn it around. A country is kept alive because its citizens share the same general ideals and are willing to compromise on the ones they don't. The moment that's lost, then yes, the country begins to die. Not having common purpose makes it easy for a country to be fractured to the point cooperation becomes difficult; lose that and you become a and you're on a downward spiral. I'm an optimist who thinks there's still a chance things will turnaround, but the current environment makes maintaining that optimism pretty difficult.

My Dad told me in 2008, the US has seen it's best days, we are done as a country. I did not believe that then, I don't believe it now. No matter how good or bad the POTUS, the US is much stronger than any 4 or 8 year term.

 

[ElChupacabra]

My Dad told me in 2008, the US has seen it's best days, we are done as a country. I did not believe that then, I don't believe it now. No matter how good or bad the POTUS, the US is much stronger than any 4 or 8 year term.

I'm not sure what that strength means when so much energy is put toward vilifying our fellow citizens, or as we watch the wealth concentration continue to go to a handful of people at this point. Something will have to change that around, I just don't know what that is. In the past we've had situations that galvanized the country while now we have the opposite and the shame of it is others are profiting from the division.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

I'm not sure what that strength means when so much energy is put toward vilifying our fellow citizens, or as we watch the wealth concentration continue to go to a handful of people at this point. Something will have to change that around, I just don't know what that is. In the past we've had situations that galvanized the country while now we have the opposite and the shame of it is others are profiting from the division.

You have just described politics across the ages, it is all about the rich getting richer and divide and conquer.
Those past situations that galvanized us, tended to be wars and depressions and 9/11.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

True, but this is comparing apples to oranges. The US and UK may share the same language, but the culture and attitudes of people are very different.

As I compared the intentional homicide rate of each country, we're comparing apples with apples. Of course there are cultural differences, and my point from the beginning is these cultural and societal differences are what make the crime rates different.

Who is spreading bull now??? I never in any way said or inferred that the crime rate had anything to do in anyway with immigrants, that is entirely your own sad attempt at distraction. Yeah, I know what the tread is about and what I presented was clearly stated in my first sentence.....

That was to point out, as you certainly know but avoid, the size and population difference between the two countries. There is a correlation in the variance between those numbers and the likely hood of being murdered. You lefties always seem to fall back on distraction, twisting things said and inferring things not said in order to try and validate your positions. You are sliding down a rabbit hole with that and you may continue that slide on your own, I have no desire to follow you down.

As stated before, it's population adjusted so your pathetic attempt to distract from our problems is once again rejected. If larger countries always had more crime China and India would have 3 times the crime we do, yet they have less.

So no, it's not the immigrants and its not our population. We have a cultural and societal problem.

 

[Brave New World]

Trump's Amrerica making friends across the world. :lol:

French outrage after US President Trump mimics Paris attackers - BBC News

 

[PeteEU]

How many tyrannies has the US endured in our 240 year history? In the same period, how many did Europe endure? What was the number of lives lost due to in tyrannies in the US? Europe?

There has been one tyranny in the US.. that of rich white males. It is still going on to a degree. This tyranny has been going on since the foundation of the US.

As for lives cost.. genocide of the native population in large parts of the US. Murder of countless slaves. 600k+ deaths during a bloody civil war. Random daily violence and death for 240 years. Add into that the wars the US has started, the colonies it has had and abused... and while we are not reaching that of ALL 56+ European countries combined, the US is certainly competing with most individual countries in said 240 year period.

 

[PeteEU]

lol, we are much freer than you, a subject to the crown who cant carry a pocket knife larger than a tiny pen knife. If that is how you feel about the US why are you posting on a US forum? Surely a superior Brit forum exists.

By that definition of freedom, Somalia and Syria are the freest places on earth, because you can own and use rocket launchers and tanks.

 

[Sabre]

So no, it's not the immigrants and its not our population. We have a cultural and societal problem.

First honest thing you have said, congrats.

 

[Nilly]

This is true, but the sanctimonious bashing from a foreigner will get recoil. Do you agree with him the US is a "dying country"?

The saying goes, mow your own yard. And in his own words "who cares what that dying country thinks" you may want to have your conversation with him.

Tell that to the damn president, the man who's meant to represent America on a global stage, who doesn't hesitate to call other countries hellholes or ****ty or whatever.

If you're so concerned with 'sanctimonious bashing' then maybe stop being such assholes on the global stage. Don't dish out what you can't take. It's a pretty universal rule.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

There has been one tyranny in the US.. that of rich white males. It is still going on to a degree. This tyranny has been going on since the foundation of the US.

As for lives cost.. genocide of the native population in large parts of the US. Murder of countless slaves. 600k+ deaths during a bloody civil war. Random daily violence and death for 240 years. Add into that the wars the US has started, the colonies it has had and abused... and while we are not reaching that of ALL 56+ European countries combined, the US is certainly competing with most individual countries in said 240 year period.

Really?

Our rich white males share it, make it so the entire nation, hell they, we, spread the word to the entire planet. We were the original beacon signalling that it can be done.

Economics, businesses was America's business, not war. Now your Euro white males very simply got there firstist with the mostest, pretty much robbed the vaults of the world. Spanish conquistadors, competing English and Dutch East India Co.s, the French, the German come latelies, the crowns in all yours, those that could somehow manage it.

Most of our slave history was under European rule and influence, its to be remembered. Yes, our settlers had diametrically opposed, and reciprocally savage opposition with the chasm in concepts of land use and ownership to our indgenous. The settlers were more organized, unified and technologically superior.

Life in the big history.

Plus we stopped our legal transatlantic slave trading in 1808, slavery was winding down of its own volition, less than 4% of all slaves ever went to the North Americas in any event. The 600K lost were lives fighting the slavery battle, that is a very NOBEL tradition. Achieved nobel, not a hereditarialy conferred gift. Doesnt Denmark still have a Monarchy? Had any minority kings or queens of late? Ever? Ditto with PMs?

Yet you lecture.

Euopean colonization vs American, are you joking? Lives lost due to wars caused, Euro vs US? Not even the grand most terrible, WW1 alone dwarfs all our wars put together. All known wars in the entire hemisphere put together.

Nice. Good old government try at spinning, that. Government bureaucrat, right? Local or EU?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

This is true, but the sanctimonious bashing from a foreigner will get recoil ~

Ah, so you think Brits should roll over and accept Trump's lies when he spoke to the NRA?

True, but this is comparing apples to oranges. The US and UK may share the same language, but the culture and attitudes of people are very different.

If you forgot - Trump did the comparing which is why you can't start using that failed argument. Your own President remember? Cheered on by the NRA. This thread is based upon that premise started by your President.

lol, we are much freer than you, a subject to the crown who cant carry a pocket knife larger than a tiny pen knife. If that is how you feel about the US why are you posting on a US forum? Surely a superior Brit forum exists.

When you've lost the argument, start inviting the victor to go somewhere else...

~ Crime rates over th last quarter century in the US have pretty much plummetted dramatically.


Right? ~

True but the US still has way higher homicide rates than anywhere else in the western world. That is why I am challenging Trump's lies about London and the stabbing rates - as well as whether guns would prevent the crimes happening - and this is from a pro gun Brit laughing at you and your President.

~Your first sentence

Yeah, this thread is about Trump comparing UK stabbing statistics for the benefit of his NRA supporters who don't really want to talk about US shooting statistics.

~ Since we tossed out European rule we have been more of a peace keeper, establisher and maintainer ~

Tell me, how did Haiti work out? Or the Philippines? We're getting sidetracked here anyway.

~ Plus we stopped our legal transatlantic slave trading in 1808, slavery was winding down of its own volition, less than 4% of all slaves ever went to the North Americas in any event ~

From the Kanye West version of slavery history?

 

[ElChupacabra]

You have just described politics across the ages, it is all about the rich getting richer and divide and conquer.
Those past situations that galvanized us, tended to be wars and depressions and 9/11.

Yep, and because we don't learn from our past we're condemned to repeat it. If people wouldn't succumb to the "divide and conquer" tactic we might make some headway, but we're still tribal creatures and can't seem to resist the temptation to do so.

 

[PeteEU]

Really?

Our rich white males share it, make it so the entire nation, hell they, we, spread the word to the entire planet. We were the original beacon signalling that it can be done.

HAHAHAHA good one. Typical American arrogance.

Economics, businesses was America's business, not war.

And yet, America has been involved in a war pretty much every single year of its existence, declared or not. America is built on violence and death.. that is a fact.

Now your Euro white males very simply got there firstist with the mostest, pretty much robbed the vaults of the world. Spanish conquistadors, competing English and Dutch East India Co.s, the French, the German come latelies, the crowns in all yours, those that could somehow manage it.

Yea.. because you know, we actually have thousands of years of history and not just a few centuries.

Most of our slave history was under European rule and influence, its to be remembered. Yes, our settlers had diametrically opposed, and reciprocally savage opposition with the chasm in concepts of land use and ownership to our indgenous. The settlers were more organized, unified and technologically superior.

Nice attempt to rewrite history there. Yes slavery has existed long before America was even an itch in its fathers pants... hell natives in the Americas had slaves.... and your excuse for genocide is that "we were better organized, unified and technology superior?". Hmm wonder when the KKK/Neo Nazi/Trumpets start to use that excuse for the holocaust.

Plus we stopped our legal transatlantic slave trading in 1808, slavery was winding down of its own volition, less than 4% of all slaves ever went to the North Americas in any event. The 600K lost were lives fighting the slavery battle, that is a very NOBEL tradition. Achieved nobel, not a hereditarialy conferred gift. Doesnt Denmark still have a Monarchy? Had any minority kings or queens of late? Ever? Ditto with PMs?

Nice white washing there.. The reason that the trans-atlantic slave trading stopped was because the British Empire banned it. And winding down? For **** sake, you continued to have slaves til the 1860s while the civilized world already started to stop the practice in the late 1700s. And yes Denmark is a constitutional Monarchy.. you do understand what that means right?

Yet you lecture.

Facts are not lecturing. The only lecturing here, is people who support Trump and the NRA and guns.

Euopean colonization vs American, are you joking? Lives lost due to wars caused, Euro vs US? Not even the grand most terrible, WW1 alone dwarfs all our wars put together. All known wars in the entire hemisphere put together.

Yes and so what? War has nothing to do with internal crime in nations does it? Yes Europe has 3000+ years of history with many deaths and wars. However that aint what this whole discussion started out with.. it was crime and violence in society. Here the US king of the hill in the "western democracies" with daily violence, weekly/daily mass shootings and worse. Not saying that we are angels over here in Europe, because we aint.. but compared to the US, we are very very peaceful and safe here.

Nice. Good old government try at spinning, that. Government bureaucrat, right? Local or EU?

And here you prove how little you know.. why bring the EU into this? You do understand that national law and order has nothing to do with the EU right?

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

True but the US still has way higher homicide rates than anywhere else in the western world. That is why I am challenging Trump's lies about London and the stabbing rates - as well as whether guns would prevent the crimes happening - and this is from a pro gun Brit laughing at you and your President.





Yeah, this thread is about Trump comparing UK stabbing statistics for the benefit of his NRA supporters who don't really want to talk about US shooting statistics.





Tell me, how did Haiti work out? Or the Philippines? We're getting sidetracked here anyway.



From the Kanye West version of slavery history?

Whats your definition of the Western World?

We are far far far more ethnically, racially and newly diverse than most other nations in what I think you are classifying as the "Western World". Still, in keeping our freedoms the rate is not out of reason and, again, over the long term far better for us and the rest of the world.

You folks are hardly ones to lecture with all the trouble youve created death and destruction wise. You Brits werent laughing when you came to us for help after getting your butts kicked, chased off continent in an inspiring yet still humiliating defeat at Dunkirk...by a guy in Germany looking to do what the left over here want.

Upon conquering France all civilian guns were required turned over within the first 24 hours, the death penalty for non compliance. This made the French civilians roughly equal to the German public... which had already been disarmed.

How many tens of millions died as a result of those failed policies? Do goodism is naivism (not the art form, tho you folks do raise it to the level of an art).

Be more precise in your original argument framing then...you brought up the question AND I answered. YOU dont want to talk about what tragic changing policy might eventually, and has historically, resulted.

Haiti? Not great. Nothing near as bad as how fouled up the Balkans became leading to the Great War ....nor the various Mandates in the Middle East resulting from WW1, etc... In the Philippines we fought an insurrection killing about the same number as one country in Europe, Spain, killed in Cuba fighting a similar situation. Whats your point? You think there is anything close tp parity in what the US versus Europe did durng the Age of Imperialism? :lamo

Fe fi fo fum, Somebody been smoking a bit o' the whacky some.

So you re saying Kanye is telling the truth, good, glad to hear it. If you can prove anything wrong, go for it. Hint: you cant.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Please comment on - Stabbings UK vs shootings USA

and - Stabbing deaths UK vs shooting deaths USA

For the most part, the victims in the UK are sitting ducks, since they are unable to arm themselves against the attackers.

 

[Grand Mal]

For the most part, the victims in the UK are sitting ducks, since they are unable to arm themselves against the attackers.

About 5 times as many sitting ducks in the US, apparently.

 

[PeteEU]

For the most part, the victims in the UK are sitting ducks, since they are unable to arm themselves against the attackers.

You only arm yourself if you live in fear of something.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

HAHAHAHA good one Typical American arrogance



And yet, America has been involved in a war pretty much every single year of its existence, declared or not America is built on violence and death that is a fact



Yea because you know, we actually have thousands of years of history and not just a few centuries



Nice attempt to rewrite history there. Yes slavery has existed long before America was even an itch in its fathers pants... hell natives in the Americas had slaves.... and your excuse for genocide is that "we were better organized, unified and technology superior?". ...



Nice white washing there.. The reason that the trans-atlantic slave trading stopped was because the British Empire banned it. And winding down? For **** sake, you continued to have slaves til the 1860s while the civilized world already started to stop the practice in the late 1700s. And yes Denmark is a constitutional Monarchy.. you do understand what that means right?



Facts are not lecturing. ...



Yes and so what? War has nothing to do with internal crime in nations does it? Yes Europe has 3000+ years of history with many deaths and wars. However that aint what this whole discussion started out with.. it was crime and violence in society. Here the US king of the hill in the "western democracies" with daily violence, weekly/daily mass shootings and worse. Not saying that we are angels over here in Europe, because we aint.. but compared to the US, we are very very peaceful and safe here.



And here you prove how little you know.. why bring the EU into this? You do understand that national law and order has nothing to do with the EU right?

That first is deflection, not argument. JSYKIK.

Confidence, in a proven better way? That isn't quite the American definition of arrogance. I've been around some truly arrogant Dutch, worse German...Parisians? Don't get me started. Brits seem able to at least listen, and Danes are kinda squat folk, ones I've met. Have been too cool, however, sincerely. But I havent met them all. The Germans I met after bicycling into my long time favorite city, Florence, Firenze! on my birthday 1982 were fabulous.

That said Euro superlatives are rivaled by your beyond heinous atrocities. Schizo continent.

Wars?

Under our sphere of influence from minimum 1823 onwards we've protected US property and interests, exerting sometimes too much, sometimes too little, sometimes goldilockean good in an imperfect Western hemisphere, later the world.

Our wars are minor skirmishes compared to the modern Eastern hemi ( I mislabeled in another post on thread and hereby correct) history. As you stated our worst, 600 K, terrible losses, far more maimed for life. Yes, and our indigenous we uprooted, crudely, in an admittedly much cruder time, roughly not without far too much tradgedy, moved them where we wouldn't clash so much.

Our differences close to irreconcilable, no desire by those conquered to assimilate, much bettern total extermination. We weren't like Nazis or Stalinists. Yano? Those Death camps, the Gulags, the tens of millions disappeared.

That's not even the wars. Here are death tolls from but a few:

Napoleonic Wars including civilians 3- 6.5 million
Taiping Rebellion 20-30 million
Armenian Genocide 1915-17 1.5 million
Spanish Civil War 500K roughly similar to our worst
WW1 41 million ic
WW2 50-80 million ic
Mao’s Great Leap Forward 45 million

Your hemi is outta control. Id say mind your own business, but you really need to learn from your mistakes. Wagging your finger wont solve any of that.

American indigenous genocide? We still have many. Many of us are descendent from our indigenous, a proud, tall and generally handsome people...had we wanted to exterminate all we well could have.

We didn't, we warred, won, moved them West generally.

Didn't justify, just stated thats history, migrating expanding, pushing, historic groups like the Vikings or the Visigoths, Rome before them. Its history. What you want to do now about it?

Ours is still far milder.

The British did, and were admirably aggressive about it, end British slave trading. We had a clause in our Constitution Art 1 sec 9 protecting the slave trade for 20 years; resulted in Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807.

Yes...hate to keep trumping you, but we have a Constitutional Republic. For one means we aren't hypocritical about supporting a hereditary white elite class. You folks can very well do just as you please, just dont go wagging that finger.

What facts? You re legless, nothing to stand on.

Wars are most often crimes, one nation and its people against another. Government, systematic and overpowering, it is of more concern than random violence that undoubtably will occur anyway in a free society.

See that forest over there...or are all those trees blocking your view?

 

[ElChupacabra]

For the most part, the victims in the UK are sitting ducks, since they are unable to arm themselves against the attackers.

It goes both ways though; there's no model where only the "good guys" have guns. Focusing on how to reduce crime and its causes is a better expenditure of energy than arming people and letting them have a go at each other.

 

[HowardBThiname]

About 5 times as many sitting ducks in the US, apparently.

Only the unarmed ones.