Spain Signals New Hard Line Stance On Gibraltar

[Higgins86]

Spain's Gibraltar Warning: Foreign Minister Jose Garcia-Margallo Says 'The Party Is Over'



Should be interesting to see how this plays out as I don't see us giving up Gibraltar whilst the local population want to remain under our sovereignty. 50 euro (£43.40) fee could be imposed on every vehicle entering or leaving the Rock through its border post with Spain and they are also talking about restricting air travel. Echo's Argentina's latest Falkland crusade which of course has been acting as an attempted distraction to their dire economic situation, also very similar to Franco's campaign bk in the 60's and 70's which was triggered for no particular reason. Honestly I think two can play this game and I wonder how the Costa Del Sol would fare if British tourists started boycotting, I also wonder if Spain will be giving up its claim to the canary islands.

 

[Spriggs05]

Spain's Gibraltar Warning: Foreign Minister Jose Garcia-Margallo Says 'The Party Is Over'



Should be interesting to see how this plays out as I don't see us giving up Gibraltar whilst the local population want to remain under our sovereignty. 50 euro (£43.40) fee could be imposed on every vehicle entering or leaving the Rock through its border post with Spain and they are also talking about restricting air travel. Echo's Argentina's latest Falkland crusade which of course has been acting as an attempted distraction to their dire economic situation, also very similar to Franco's campaign bk in the 60's and 70's which was triggered for no particular reason. Honestly I think two can play this game and I wonder how the Costa Del Sol would fare if British tourists started boycotting, I also wonder if Spain will be giving up its claim to the canary islands.

Its just like the Falklands, something for the government to distract people with when times are hard. Typical.
The Spanish government will never give up a claim to the canaries, and the Spanish economy would definitely be worse off if the Costa Del Sol was abandoned by Brits.

 

[Manc Skipper]

There's at least 900,000 Brits working or retired living on the Spanish costas. Be hard to get them to join a boycott.

 

[Higgins86]

There's at least 900,000 Brits working or retired living on the Spanish costas. Be hard to get them to join a boycott.

British? Nah they gave up a while ago

 

[Artevelde]

Typical grandstanding on the part of Spain. Pretty futile.

 

[PeteEU]

Spain's Gibraltar Warning: Foreign Minister Jose Garcia-Margallo Says 'The Party Is Over'



Should be interesting to see how this plays out as I don't see us giving up Gibraltar whilst the local population want to remain under our sovereignty. 50 euro (£43.40) fee could be imposed on every vehicle entering or leaving the Rock through its border post with Spain and they are also talking about restricting air travel. Echo's Argentina's latest Falkland crusade which of course has been acting as an attempted distraction to their dire economic situation, also very similar to Franco's campaign bk in the 60's and 70's which was triggered for no particular reason. Honestly I think two can play this game and I wonder how the Costa Del Sol would fare if British tourists started boycotting, I also wonder if Spain will be giving up its claim to the canary islands.

To be honest I think this is "arranged" by the Spanish conservatives and Cameron. Why? Both governments need distractions from scandals or bad economy, and this is perfect. The timing smells big time. It reminds me of the Cameron crusade to censor the Internet, which he suddenly went on when one of his top aides was exposed as a lobbyist... and then dropped just as quickly when the new royal baby came around.

Although saying that, the British have been pushing the boundaries around the Rock lately and the Spanish have pushed back. Dumping large concrete blocks to supposedly create an artificial reef, without asking the Spanish and blocking access to Spanish ports... is kinda how this whole mess started.

 

[PeteEU]

There's at least 900,000 Brits working or retired living on the Spanish costas. Be hard to get them to join a boycott.

300k is the estimate, not 900k.

 

[Andalublue]

Spain's Gibraltar Warning: Foreign Minister Jose Garcia-Margallo Says 'The Party Is Over'



Should be interesting to see how this plays out as I don't see us giving up Gibraltar whilst the local population want to remain under our sovereignty. 50 euro (£43.40) fee could be imposed on every vehicle entering or leaving the Rock through its border post with Spain and they are also talking about restricting air travel. Echo's Argentina's latest Falkland crusade which of course has been acting as an attempted distraction to their dire economic situation, also very similar to Franco's campaign bk in the 60's and 70's which was triggered for no particular reason. Honestly I think two can play this game and I wonder how the Costa Del Sol would fare if British tourists started boycotting, I also wonder if Spain will be giving up its claim to the canary islands.

This happens every so often whenever Spain elects an incompetent right-wing government. It's virtually an instinctive pattern of behaviour that kicks in whenever the PP feels its popularity slipping, and boy! is it slipping at the moment. One historian calls the Gibraltar question, 'the glue that holds Spain together', meaning that whenever a nationalist-hued party fears losing the support of the nation, out comes the old Gibraltarian bogeyman.

This has nothing to do with the Spanish people of the Bay of Algeciras, who co-exist with the colony perfectly happily, nor even with the fishermen who are being used as the PP's pawns in agitating for conflict with the UK. This is about a ruling party that has lost the complete confidence of the electorate, is mired in corruption trials which threaten to involve the President himself, and which has been seen to be totally incapable of creating a single new job in the economy despite its most swingeing austerity measures.

The interesting thing about this particular mini-eruption is that you won't meet a single Spaniard here who sees this as anything other than the diversionary tactic it certainly is. No one's being fooled this time and the government has zero support for what it is threatening to do to 'tighten the screw' on Gibraltar. There was a big spread in El País yesterday spelling out the history of the use of Gibraltar fever by successive right-wing Spanish régimes. This PP administration is probably too stupid to realise that this time no one's buying their rotten fish.

 

[Andalublue]

Dumping large concrete blocks to supposedly create an artificial reef, without asking the Spanish and blocking access to Spanish ports... is kinda how this whole mess started.

You know that that is exactly what Spain did, in the same part of the bay, without reference to Gib, in 2006, but don't take my word for it:

Al lado de Gibraltar, España instaló en 2006, a través de la Junta de Andalucía, lo mismo, es decir, un arrecife artificial en La Línea, con 88 módulos. En un informe de la Junta se explica el motivo: “A petición del sector pesquero del puerto de La Atunara, con la finalidad de impedir el paso de arrastreros en su zona habitual de pesca”. Los motivos son los mismos que pueda argumentar Gibraltar. De hecho, la junta inició un plan en 1989 para regenerar caladeros agotados, siguiendo directrices europeas, que ha supuesto instalar 25 arrecifes en 20 años. Muchos de ellos “con pinchos de hierro”.

Gibraltar

In this instance, I think it's all coming from a desperate Madrid.

 

[Andalublue]

300k is the estimate, not 900k.

That's right, although that's for the whole of Spain. We don't all live on the costas.

 

[Mr X]

To be honest I think this is "arranged" by the Spanish conservatives and Cameron. Why? Both governments need distractions from scandals or bad economy, and this is perfect. The timing smells big time. It reminds me of the Cameron crusade to censor the Internet, which he suddenly went on when one of his top aides was exposed as a lobbyist... and then dropped just as quickly when the new royal baby came around.

Although saying that, the British have been pushing the boundaries around the Rock lately and the Spanish have pushed back. Dumping large concrete blocks to supposedly create an artificial reef, without asking the Spanish and blocking access to Spanish ports... is kinda how this whole mess started.

Why should Gibraltar ask Spain about something it's doing in it's own territorial waters? And the reef isn't blocking access to the Spanish port.

 

[PeteEU]

Why should Gibraltar ask Spain about something it's doing in it's own territorial waters? And the reef isn't blocking access to the Spanish port.

It is.

 

[PeteEU]

That's right, although that's for the whole of Spain. We don't all live on the costas.

Nope but he said costa! Plus I suspect the overall number is also lower since lots of Brits have left to go home after the pound value collapsed.

 

[PeteEU]

You know that that is exactly what Spain did, in the same part of the bay, without reference to Gib, in 2006, but don't take my word for it:


Gibraltar

Yea I know, never said Spain was an angel. They both are boneheaded morons.

In this instance, I think it's all coming from a desperate Madrid.

Well it is the 300 year anniversary of the Treaty of Utrecht, and both governments need distractions. Yes Madrid needs it more than London, because of the massive corruption scandal going on against the PM and PP, but I doubt that Cameron would want to defuse the situation right now, since the sniffing around his own scandals is not over.

Like it or not it is a good distraction away from more important things.

Personally I would love to see a resolution to the cluster**** of Gib, because both sides are not clean.. to say the least.

 

[Andalublue]

Personally I would love to see a resolution to the cluster**** of Gib, because both sides are not clean.. to say the least.

Meh! As far as I can see there is no clusterf***. Spain and Gib get on just fine when the politicians aren't trying to use it as a political football. Isn't it funny that these disputes over fishing and tank purging in the bay weren't issues of more than local concern while Moratinos was foreign minister.

 

[PeteEU]

Meh! As far as I can see there is no clusterf***. Spain and Gib get on just fine when the politicians aren't trying to use it as a political football. Isn't it funny that these disputes over fishing and tank purging in the bay weren't issues of more than local concern while Moratinos was foreign minister.

I agree, but there are some issues that should be resolved. Having an agreement on territorial waters would be great and remove most of the tensions. And having an agreement about cross-border policing, to stop the smuggling of drugs and illegal goods into Spain from the Rock would be great. Right now, the British are basically helping smugglers for political reasons, since they refuse to cooperate fully with the Spanish to stop the trafficking... one could almost accuse the local politicians of being the people behind the smuggling... And getting the issue of the illegal seizing of land resolved finally would be nice... it is a sore eye in the area and I suspect it could be resolved easily with compensation and such.

The irony of it all, when you go to the Rock.. the language spoken most is not English and many of those living there are actually Spanish. Most of those working there are also Spanish.

What I never will understand, is the massive amount of cars wanting to enter the Rock. There is next to no parking and it is at a premium, and worst of all.. there is almost no area to drive on.. so why the hell does so many want to go over the border in cars? You can walk around the Rock in a hour for christ sake, and the public transportation is good there.

 

[Mr X]

Why should Gibraltar ask Spain about something it's doing in it's own territorial waters? And the reef isn't blocking access to the Spanish port.

It is.

Looking at the location of the reef, I fail to see how it could possibly block access to La Linea port. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[PeteEU]

Looking at the location of the reef, I fail to see how it could possibly block access to La Linea port. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

[/URL][/IMG]

The reef project is all around the Rock, not just there. And it is one of many issues, and both sides are at fault. The Spanish are behaving badly, but so are the British and have been for a long time.

For one, the British are not living up to the treaty of Utrecht, since they are allowing Jews and Moors (arabs) to be in Gibraltar... yes that is a treaty provision believe it or not.

 

[Mr X]

The reef project is all around the Rock, not just there. And it is one of many issues, and both sides are at fault. The Spanish are behaving badly, but so are the British and have been for a long time.

For one, the British are not living up to the treaty of Utrecht, since they are allowing Jews and Moors (arabs) to be in Gibraltar... yes that is a treaty provision believe it or not.

Even if the reef is all around the rock, it still doesn't prevent access to La Linea port. You don't need to enter Gibraltarian waters to reach the port.
Wasn't the treaty of Utrecht superceded by the treaties of Seville and Paris in later years? Regardless, Spain isn't going to use the presence of Jews and Muslims in Gibraltar as a claim to sovereignty.

 

[Andalublue]

I agree, but there are some issues that should be resolved. Having an agreement on territorial waters would be great and remove most of the tensions.

Agreed.

And having an agreement about cross-border policing, to stop the smuggling of drugs and illegal goods into Spain from the Rock would be great.

Agreed.

Right now, the British are basically helping smugglers for political reasons, since they refuse to cooperate fully with the Spanish to stop the trafficking...

The lack of cooperation works both ways, doesn't it?

one could almost accuse the local politicians of being the people behind the smuggling...

Not without any evidence to back up the accusation you couldn't.

And getting the issue of the illegal seizing of land resolved finally would be nice... it is a sore eye in the area and I suspect it could be resolved easily with compensation and such.

Agreed.

The irony of it all, when you go to the Rock.. the language spoken most is not English and many of those living there are actually Spanish. Most of those working there are also Spanish.

The irony is that the current actions of the PP government are harming Spanish businesses and workers far more than it's damaging Gibraltar. That's why it isn't working to deflect public attention away from their political meltdown.

What I never will understand, is the massive amount of cars wanting to enter the Rock. There is next to no parking and it is at a premium, and worst of all.. there is almost no area to drive on.. so why the hell does so many want to go over the border in cars? You can walk around the Rock in a hour for christ sake, and the public transportation is good there.

I've been there quite a few times and it comes as a surprise to me that anyone wants to visit the place. It's like a ghastly home counties town plonked down in the Med. I can't see any appeal in it at all.

 

[Mr X]

I've been there quite a few times and it comes as a surprise to me that anyone wants to visit the place. It's like a ghastly home counties town plonked down in the Med. I can't see any appeal in it at all.

I have to agree with this.

 

[Higgins86]

Agreed.
Agreed.
The lack of cooperation works both ways, doesn't it?

Not without any evidence to back up the accusation you couldn't.

Agreed.

The irony is that the current actions of the PP government are harming Spanish businesses and workers far more than it's damaging Gibraltar. That's why it isn't working to deflect public attention away from their political meltdown.

I've been there quite a few times and it comes as a surprise to me that anyone wants to visit the place. It's like a ghastly home counties town plonked down in the Med. I can't see any appeal in it at all.

I lived there for a couple of years as a teenager when my dad was posted there. Great as a teenager but couldnt see myself living there as an adult

 

[PeteEU]

The lack of cooperation works both ways, doesn't it?

It does, but in this case almost all the smuggling goes from the Rock to Spain, because of Gibraltar being a tax haven and tax free but still within the EU.

Not without any evidence to back up the accusation you couldn't.

Nope, but it is odd how there is a lack of political will and police will in Gibraltar to stop smuggling of everything from cigarettes (/shrug) to drugs ...

The irony is that the current actions of the PP government are harming Spanish businesses and workers far more than it's damaging Gibraltar. That's why it isn't working to deflect public attention away from their political meltdown.

That is what usually happens with such actions regardless if it is in Spain or some where else. So called problems designed to take peoples attention away from the real issues are often hyperholes and hurts overall business.

I've been there quite a few times and it comes as a surprise to me that anyone wants to visit the place. It's like a ghastly home counties town plonked down in the Med. I can't see any appeal in it at all.

Once is fine, 3 or more.. Stuff is not even cheaper there. Electronics is insanely expensive and you can get it cheaper online from the UK. Booze and cigs are cheaper but else there is not much difference. Unless you absolutely want large quantities of English Coca Cola, then I dont see why the hell people go there.

The most shocking thing is when you go away from the main street, and down/up the side roads to where ordinary people live and walk into what only can be described as Calcutta 1840 when talking about building quality and maintenance. And then the irony is the government says we have no money to maintain things.. well raise the non existent taxes then you fools instead of letting the large areas look like a 3rd world country. Does not take much to pay for some paint and filler to fix up buildings.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Episode 1 | Gibraltar: Britain In The Sun | Channel 5

Ironically, the only epoisode I watched showed a policeman stopping cigarette smugglers at the border.

 

[Rainman05]

I agree with PeteEU, it's most likely a convenient distraction from the real woes of both the UK and especially Spain. Sadly, it's done poorly and will just add some fumes to the hate spewing rhetoric. A few nutters on the radical spectrum will fall for the rhetoric completely... maybe some anti-spanish violence from the brits and some anti-british violence from spanish extremists. that's as far as it will go.