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Spain judge says Bush and Iraq war allies should face war crimes charges

The president of the US should be tried in the US in my opinion.

If he has done anything that he should be tried for that is up to the US to decide and the opinion of a Spanish judge has absolutely no bearing on that whatsoever.
 
you know the one thing that would reunite a divided U.S.?

"euroidiocy" - which is alive and well.

Nobody in the states gives a flying frick what a spanish judge thinks. :roll:
 
The judge in question is a total moron who needs to shut his useless pie hole. We're fighting against the same people who bombed two commuter trains in Spain.

He's probably a spanish muslim or some such thing. Either way, he needs to go suck on his gavel.

I am not pro-war and I certainly not fan of Bush or his neo-con masters; however, I do get pissed off when I here some idiot ranting about punishing those who are trying to get rid of the vary terrorists (Al Qaida) who attack and murdered civilians.

I sincerely hope somebody repeatedly beats this tard-judge over the head with his gavel.

:doh

You clearly dont see the big picture, the wider picture. To you everything is fine because they went to war against terrorism. You clearly dont see anything surrounding this, what have happens or how things have turned out.

Yeah, and btw. Those trains were bombed because of Spains involvement in Iraq.
Maybe Spain should attack and invade Guatemala now because they were attacked by terrorists on the train.. Hmm..
 
you know the one thing that would reunite a divided U.S.?

"euroidiocy" - which is alive and well.

Nobody in the states gives a flying frick what a spanish judge thinks. :roll:

Yeah because you know best. There is no such thing as American idiots, just Euroidioacy. The problem with you guys is that you never listen to the people you blindly call "idiots".
 
If he has done anything that he should be tried for that is up to the US to decide and the opinion of a Spanish judge has absolutely no bearing on that whatsoever.

Of course it does. Its gotten all of you guys angry, if he goes to Spain he will be arrested, and it shows that Spain is thinking the correct thing about the US president while America is ignoring his betrayals.
 
Absolutely!!! Why should we care what Spain and the ICC have to say about our president?

Well if other countrys should have no say over how the U.S behaves then why doesnt it leave the U.N? If the U.S is exempt from the laws of the U.N it should have no part of it. How is the U.S govt supossed to fufill its self-proclaimed role as global policeman if it isnt held accountable to the rest of the world? If those policeing your local community where not held accountable to a democratically elected government you would view this as unjust. Why apply a different standard to the international community?

Im certainly not saying all U.S intervention is a bad thing. Im glad theres been intervention in places like rwanda. What im worried about is how the U.S can police the rest of the world while acting as though its above international law. This means that when a conflict of intrest in U.S policy occurs [such as the way economic insentives are placed above humanitarian ones] no one held accountable.

The fact is that the international community has laws. Thats why Milosevic is on trial in the hauge. However the U.S has set an unjust precedent that it is above these laws as this case demonstrates Nicaragua v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Well if other countrys should have no say over how the U.S behaves then why doesnt it leave the U.N? If the U.S is exempt from the laws of the U.N it should have no part of it. How is the U.S govt supossed to fufill its self-proclaimed role as global policeman if it isnt held accountable to the rest of the world? If those policeing your local community where not held accountable to a democratically elected government you would view this as unjust. Why apply a different standard to the international community?

Im certainly not saying all U.S intervention is a bad thing. Im glad theres been intervention in places like rwanda. What im worried about is how the U.S can police the rest of the world while acting as though its above international law. This means that when a conflict of intrest in U.S policy occurs [such as the way economic insentives are placed above humanitarian ones] no one held accountable.

The fact is that the international community has laws. Thats why Milosevic is on trial in the hauge. However the U.S has set an unjust precedent that it is above these laws as this case demonstrates Nicaragua v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let me rephrase: We are under no obligation to lend any credibility or credence to what a Spanish judge has said. If the UN were to make such a statement with the solidarity of all the major players, then it would be time to take note. However, I still do not believe we would ever let another country try our president.
 
Yeah because you know best. There is no such thing as American idiots, just Euroidioacy. The problem with you guys is that you never listen to the people you blindly call "idiots".

The problem with you is you listen far too much to the people we call idiots.

You seem to be confused on this issue though. We aren't angry about what some idiot in Spain said. What you are witnessing is disbelief. We knew how idiotic the decision makers are over there, but this reaches new levels.

Ya - some two bit country is going to have a trial involving the President of The United States. :rofl
 
Let me rephrase: We are under no obligation to lend any credibility or credence to what a Spanish judge has said. If the UN were to make such a statement with the solidarity of all the major players, then it would be time to take note. However, I still do not believe we would ever let another country try our president.

In the Nicaraguan case all major world players did vote against the US in a non-binding resolution trying to pressure the US to pay the fine. The US still ignored it, as the international court really has no jurisdiction over US foreign policy.

The world of international politics is still very much a "might makes right" society, with larger, more powerful countries taking advantage of weaker ones. I'm sure I would want that to change if I lived somewhere else, but I'm happy being at the top, for as long as it lasts.
 
Of course it does. Its gotten all of you guys angry, if he goes to Spain he will be arrested, and it shows that Spain is thinking the correct thing about the US president while America is ignoring his betrayals.

I highly doubt that if our president goes to Spain that he will be arrested in the word of a judge. Wishful thinking on your part.
 
I highly doubt that if our president goes to Spain that he will be arrested in the word of a judge. Wishful thinking on your part.

Good point. I'm also fairly sure that it would start a war that the EU really doesn't want.
 
Well if other countrys should have no say over how the U.S behaves then why doesnt it leave the U.N? If the U.S is exempt from the laws of the U.N it should have no part of it. How is the U.S govt supossed to fufill its self-proclaimed role as global policeman if it isnt held accountable to the rest of the world? If those policeing your local community where not held accountable to a democratically elected government you would view this as unjust. Why apply a different standard to the international community?

Im certainly not saying all U.S intervention is a bad thing. Im glad theres been intervention in places like rwanda. What im worried about is how the U.S can police the rest of the world while acting as though its above international law. This means that when a conflict of intrest in U.S policy occurs [such as the way economic insentives are placed above humanitarian ones] no one held accountable.

The fact is that the international community has laws. Thats why Milosevic is on trial in the hauge. However the U.S has set an unjust precedent that it is above these laws as this case demonstrates Nicaragua v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its good we have the EU then who will slowly hold the US more and more accountable for their actions. In 2020 the US will have adopted the norms of the ICC.
 
That would be incredibly smart, since the EU would then counter that. It would lead to a trade war between the two biggest economies of the world and lead to the collapse of the US, EU and world economy, it would in the end lead to fall of men.

Do you have any idea how economically dependent the US is on the EU and vica versa?

They account for 60% of the world economy.
They account for a majority of world trade.
Each other foreign investments are mainly in each other.


It's a no win situation, but the US will be hurt the least. While we have given up much of our manufacturing capabilities; we have everything here needed to reconstruct it. The major impact to the rest of the world is the cut off of American consumerism which currently drives the majority of the global market. If the markets sorta shutdown and isolationism became the standard, the world would be plunged into a global depression; but America would be set to be the first country to be able to come out of it.
 
We're fighting against the same people who bombed two commuter trains in Spain.

I am not pro-war and I certainly not fan of Bush or his neo-con masters; however, I do get pissed off when I here some idiot ranting about punishing those who are trying to get rid of the vary terrorists (Al Qaida) who attack and murdered civilians.


Excellent points there Vader! I agree.
 
Its good we have the EU then who will slowly hold the US more and more accountable for their actions. In 2020 the US will have adopted the norms of the ICC.

If that were the case, I'd hope to be dead by then. Ceding of sovereignty to a foreign court with no oversight would be a ridiculously stupid thing to do. And I would hope that despite the flaws of our government they would never try anything as blazingly treasonous as selling out our sovereignty.
 
That would be incredibly smart, since the EU would then counter that. It would lead to a trade war between the two biggest economies of the world and lead to the collapse of the US, EU and world economy, it would in the end lead to fall of men.

LOL Trade war for a few months while we suspend food exports and all the Volkswagens Mercedes and BMW's sit on the shelf. We can double your food prices and take away most of your market access on a whim, and all it would do is stimulate our own domestic auto industry. Trade war, real war, we crush you like bug either way.
 
World opinion has been gravitating towards trying Bush for war crimes, and today, a judge in Spain has added his opinion. This comes just two days after an ICC official stated that both Bush and Blair may eventually face war crimes charges.


Article is here.

And this is important why?**** what some piece of **** anti-war ***** in a black robe says over in Spain.
 
It's a no win situation, but the US will be hurt the least. While we have given up much of our manufacturing capabilities; we have everything here needed to reconstruct it. The major impact to the rest of the world is the cut off of American consumerism which currently drives the majority of the global market. If the markets sorta shutdown and isolationism became the standard, the world would be plunged into a global depression; but America would be set to be the first country to be able to come out of it.

Yeah, whatever you say man. If America was isolated, I think the rest of the countries would come out of it easier.

It would be a loose loose situation, but if necessary, Europe could crush the American economy in few months.

You hopeless hope that America would pick itself up is just dreams. No one in America would be willing go 100 years back in time, the US moral would just crumble and your usually "spoiled" country would be the most depressed. Every other country in the world has seen REAL tough times before, America hasnt, it would be devestating.

By 2020, Europe and China will make up a fine duo to make the US do whatever they want, wait and see.
 
LOL Trade war for a few months while we suspend food exports and all the Volkswagens Mercedes and BMW's sit on the shelf. We can double your food prices and take away most of your market access on a whim, and all it would do is stimulate our own domestic auto industry. Trade war, real war, we crush you like bug either way.

You obviously know nothing abut the world economy in all your eagerness to glorify the US you seem to forget the facts at least. How would you supposedly double our food prices when we dont buy any food from the US? The US is more or at least equally dependant on Europe that Europe is on it, how do you justify your absurd theories? You cant take away any more market access than we can.. You have to remember, US imports is double of US export, this means the US is incredibly dependant on other countries. So in reality, WE could double YOUR prices and take away YOUR market access in no time.
 
I am waiting to see. It seems funny Europe would align itself with China, whom doesn't even know the meaning of human rights. But whatever.

The American economy has always been strong, and the reason why we would suffer with the global economy is because we have given up much of our industrial capabilities. It would take time to rebuild, but it can be rebuilt and rather quickly. Due to the resources available in the US, the population, etc., it would take some time but we would get up rather quickly. If you look at the global economy you see America as the front runner, especially when it comes to our debt (which is another reason why America can rebound faster). Many economies, including China, have directly linked their currency to the dollar and have invested heavily in American short term debt. That debt is written in our dollar, and it becomes easy to artificially inflate other's currency through our debt bonds.

China, BTW, would be utterly screwed if there was a global depression. The only real thing keeping them out of revolution is the fact that America ships enough jobs over there that they can keep enough of their population pacified. However, if unemployment skyrockets in China, their government would be screwed. Wouldn't be bad because the Chinese government is horrible, but China would be set back for awhile while they remake their government. Europe exports a ton to the US and the reason for many of their economical booms is linked directly to American consumerism. Without it, you won't be able to rebound. In short, isolationism hurts everyone, but hurts the US the least. We will always have consumerism and once we get our factories up and running again, our economy would bloom. Without our dollar, however, the European economies would rebound at a slower rate.
 
You obviously know nothing abut the world economy in all your eagerness to glorify the US you seem to forget the facts at least. How would you supposedly double our food prices when we dont buy any food from the US?
The food exported to the Globe from America is the rug that the entire world food market is sitting on.If we pull our produce out everything instantly becomes SCARCE. If you didn't already know that, what can your opinion on my knowledge of the world economy be worth ? Check yourself.

The US is more or at least equally dependant on Europe that Europe is on it, how do you justify your absurd theories? You cant take away any more market access than we can.. You have to remember, US imports is double of US export, this means the US is incredibly dependant on other countries. So in reality, WE could double YOUR prices and take away YOUR market access in no time.

Complete Rubbish. You are simply too out of touch with reality on this issue to merit further discourse. Germany is looking at a 25 year depression if we stop buying their cars, and they are one of the few EU members in the black. We can easily tank the entire German Economy for a decade, and it is the engine of EU Economic growth. All we have to do is put a 200% VAT on German autos coming into the U.S. Couple this to doubled food prices and the entire EU is in a depression for as long as we decide. You just do not understand who has the upper hand here Small Timer. We can defend our global shipping, Can You ? Who defends yours now ? Oh us ? We just got too busy.
 
I am waiting to see. It seems funny Europe would align itself with China, whom doesn't even know the meaning of human rights. But whatever.

The American economy has always been strong, and the reason why we would suffer with the global economy is because we have given up much of our industrial capabilities. It would take time to rebuild, but it can be rebuilt and rather quickly. Due to the resources available in the US, the population, etc., it would take some time but we would get up rather quickly. If you look at the global economy you see America as the front runner, especially when it comes to our debt (which is another reason why America can rebound faster). Many economies, including China, have directly linked their currency to the dollar and have invested heavily in American short term debt. That debt is written in our dollar, and it becomes easy to artificially inflate other's currency through our debt bonds.

China, BTW, would be utterly screwed if there was a global depression. The only real thing keeping them out of revolution is the fact that America ships enough jobs over there that they can keep enough of their population pacified. However, if unemployment skyrockets in China, their government would be screwed. Wouldn't be bad because the Chinese government is horrible, but China would be set back for awhile while they remake their government. Europe exports a ton to the US and the reason for many of their economical booms is linked directly to American consumerism. Without it, you won't be able to rebound. In short, isolationism hurts everyone, but hurts the US the least. We will always have consumerism and once we get our factories up and running again, our economy would bloom. Without our dollar, however, the European economies would rebound at a slower rate.

I dont understand why you think the US could do all this and not other countries? Anyways, it will not happen, its just a theoretical situation to explain that Europe will be taking more and more responsibility to hold the US accountable for its actions. In the future its very likely it will play a double game with the US and China to influence both in their own direction.

By 2050, for all you know, Russia could be part of the European Federation.
 
I hope that by 2050 Russia would have fixed the great majority of its problems.
 
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