Solution to Reducing Crime

[lurchadams]

Some argue that investing in more police and imposing harsher sentences for all crime will help reduce it. Others say the problem in poverty and that investing in infrastructure nationwide, education, especially in impoverished areas is a better solution.

What do you think?

 

[KevinKohler]

Neither. Infrastructure, somewhat.

Investing in education simply means more highly educated unemployed and underemployed. That's not working for India, who requires masters degrees to be a train conductor.

The best thing we can do to reduce crime is to remove the motives for crime, which are primarily economic.

So, what's the best way to grow an economy and create demand for workers, of all skill and education levels?

 

[ajn678]

There needs to be a change of mindset in poor communities. Throwing money at them isn't going to fix the problems when they don't value lifestyles that lower crime rates.

 

[chuckiechan]

Charter schools and orphanages. If the parents are to drug and alcohol addled their children are running ferel, then we should take our chances and let the state raise them now or later.

 

[KevinKohler]

Charter schools and orphanages. If the parents are to drug and alcohol addled their children are running ferel, then we should take our chances and let the state raise them now or later.

Doesn't matter how well kids are raised....if crime pays better than legitimate jobs, or, those job simply don't pay enough to survive, or there none to begin with, crime is to happen.

 

[ajn678]

Doesn't matter how well kids are raised....if crime pays better than legitimate jobs, or, those job simply don't pay enough to survive, or there none to begin with, crime is to happen.

Crime almost always pays better than legitimate jobs. That's not a good enough argument.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

Crime almost always pays better than legitimate jobs. That's not a good enough argument.

No wonder there are so many middle-class kids going into prostitution and cooking meth! It all makes so much sense now!

 

[Harshaw]

Legalize drugs. End the drug war.

 

[Moderate Right]

Some argue that investing in more police and imposing harsher sentences for all crime will help reduce it. Others say the problem in poverty and that investing in infrastructure nationwide, education, especially in impoverished areas is a better solution.

What do you think?

Keep criminals locked up. The same ones commit multiple crimes. Five strikes and you're out - permanently - even for stealing candy bars at Walmart.

 

[KevinKohler]

Crime almost always pays better than legitimate jobs. That's not a good enough argument.

No it doesn't. Long term, legit jobs almost always pay better. You've got to factor in time spent not working, health insurance, retirement savings, plus the cost of tax evasion or money laundering.

To quote Nicholas Cage from Matchstick Men...."Oh, crime pays. Just not very well."

 

[ecofarm]

There needs to be a change of mindset in poor communities. Throwing money at them isn't going to fix the problems when they don't value lifestyles that lower crime rates.

Way to paint entire communities according to a relatively small criminal population. The vast majority of people in poor communities have the same values as anyone else.

 

[ajn678]

No it doesn't. Long term, legit jobs almost always pay better. You've got to factor in time spent not working, health insurance, retirement savings, plus the cost of tax evasion or money laundering.

To quote Nicholas Cage from Matchstick Men...."Oh, crime pays. Just not very well."

So then why don't people just get a legit job then?

 

[KevinKohler]

Legalize drugs. End the drug war.

I think there would still be a drug war, though. But it'd be an FDA war. Booze is legal, but moo shiners are still out there.

If pot were made legal to consume, possess, and sell, you'd still have illegal growers, because it would likely not be very cheap to bring FDA approved product to market, especially if big tobacco has any say (and my money says they will).

 

[ajn678]

Way to paint entire communities according to a relatively small criminal population. The vast majority of people in poor communities have the same values as anyone else.

Not really.

 

[Harshaw]

I think there would still be a drug war, though. But it'd be an FDA war. Booze is legal, but moo shiners are still out there.

If pot were made legal to consume, possess, and sell, you'd still have illegal growers, because it would likely not be very cheap to bring FDA approved product to market, especially if big tobacco has any say (and my money says they will).

I'm not referring to just pot.

There's still illegal alcohol manufacture, but the crime levels surrounding it during Prohibition have subsided almost entirely.

Besides, the question isn't how to eliminate all crime. That's never going to happen.

 

[KevinKohler]

So then why don't people just get a legit job then?

Because 7 bucks an hour doesn't pay the bills, let alone afford the American Dream. And that's if there's a 7 dollar an hour job available. Think about where crimes happen, where criminals come from...any factories in south central? Corporate head quarters? Warehouses? Private equity firms, lol? How about Harlem? Flint?

Education is factor, sure. As is child rearing. But in my opinion, they're not the most important. The most important is oportunity. And places with the most crime, have the least oportunity, at least per capita.

 

[KevinKohler]

I'm not referring to just pot.

There's still illegal alcohol manufacture, but the crime levels surrounding it during Prohibition have subsided almost entirely.

Besides, the question isn't how to eliminate all crime. That's never going to happen.

Fair enough.

 

[ajn678]

Because 7 bucks an hour doesn't pay the bills, let alone afford the American Dream. And that's if there's a 7 dollar an hour job available. Think about where crimes happen, where criminals come from...any factories in south central? Corporate head quarters? Warehouses? Private equity firms, lol? How about Harlem? Flint?

Education is factor, sure. As is child rearing. But in my opinion, they're not the most important. The most important is oportunity. And places with the most crime, have the least oportunity, at least per capita.

So like I said, crime pays better. There are millions of people in these communities that are always going to be working at low skill jobs. They are never going to be working at an investment firm. How much money exactly do you suggest we give them till they stop committing crimes?

 

[Brochacholomigo]

Keep criminals locked up. The same ones commit multiple crimes. Five strikes and you're out - permanently - even for stealing candy bars at Walmart.

Yeah, screw the 8th amendment, let's put people away for life without consideration for what they actually did! Not like our prisons are overcrowded already or anything...

 

[ecofarm]

If pot were made legal to consume, possess, and sell, you'd still have illegal growers, because it would likely not be very cheap to bring FDA approved product to market, especially if big tobacco has any say (and my money says they will).

Pot has only been recreation legal in some places for a short time. In those places, it's already better quality and about the same price (or less) than the black market.

Here in S. Florida, I could get a cannabis card (medical legal, this past November) for $300. Currently, there is only one dispensary, near the airport, that sells oil for double the street price because they're the only dispensary around. In perhaps a year, when a few more open, it will be street price - just like everywhere else it's been legalized.

It's absurd that recreational weed is legal for millions of Americans but not some. It's a matter of time.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

I think there would still be a drug war, though. But it'd be an FDA war. Booze is legal, but moo shiners are still out there.

If pot were made legal to consume, possess, and sell, you'd still have illegal growers, because it would likely not be very cheap to bring FDA approved product to market, especially if big tobacco has any say (and my money says they will).

That's true, but we have far fewer moonshiners than we have drug dealers and growers.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

So like I said, crime pays better. There are millions of people in these communities that are always going to be working at low skill jobs. They are never going to be working at an investment firm. How much money exactly do you suggest we give them till they stop committing crimes?

How do you get from a suggestion that we focus on imporoving the economy to welfare?

 

[KevinKohler]

So like I said, crime pays better. There are millions of people in these communities that are always going to be working at low skill jobs. They are never going to be working at an investment firm. How much money exactly do you suggest we give them till they stop committing crimes?

Give? I don't believe in giving money away. I believe in allowing people the oportunity to earn money.

There will not always be people working at low skill jobs. There will be automation that does that. As for how much they need to make to no longer view crime as a viable alternative? Enough to be content. Sure, some will never be. Look at Bernie Maddoff. Or any of the many other white collar criminals. But most....just want to be able to afford a decent place to live, a decent car, maybe even a few nice things. The American Dream. The more people who can legitimately live at least a quasi middle class existence in this country, the less crime you're going to have, regardless of culture, class, race, etc.

Ask yourself....why don't YOU become a criminal. Ignore morality for minute. Why don't I go into a criminal enterprise? Why? Because I have too much to lose. The potential for loss outweighs the potential for gain. More people in that scenario, less crime. It's just that simple.

 

[KevinKohler]

That's true, but we have far fewer moonshiners than we have drug dealers and growers.

That's because there's a liquor store on every street corner.

But to ecofarms point, that's just a matter of time. A point I'll concede.

 

[KevinKohler]

Pot has only been recreation legal in some places for a short time. In those places, it's already better quality and about the same price (or less) than the black market.

Here in S. Florida, I could get a cannabis card (medical legal, this past November) for $300. Currently, there is only one dispensary, near the airport, that sells oil for double the street price because they're the only dispensary around. In perhaps a year, when a few more open, it will be street price - just like everywhere else it's been legalized.

It's absurd that recreational weed is legal for millions of Americans but not some. It's a matter of time.

I'm surprised tobacco lobby hasn't worked some deal out to better control it in those states, if I'm honest.

I'll concede the point.