Socialism and Capitalism. Let us learn about each other.

[Voice of Reason]

...continued from above post...

I am sure this thread will live on because many people are not satisfied with fact, they are more concerned with being right. (If any of them are here you will be able to recognize them because they will begin by trying to discredit me. I only encourage you to look at the arguments which they will pitch. That alone should be enough for most of you. Look at the content of their arguments. You will see much repitition (all of which will have already been covered in my conclusion) Also you will notice that they will offer excuses that build outward instead of inward. (The problem with socialism is the foundation not all of the great ideas. It does no good to work outwards from a bad foundation.) Finally, if their are any true idiots here they will make fools of themselves without my help, and I am sure that if they post you will see what I mean. Last of all, for those with deductive abilities, simply check into the arguments against me for your self. Don't argue them simply continue their reasoning in your head. Finish the equation in your head and see for yourself the fruitlessness of it. (This requires knowledge of history, philosophy, psychology, and a good library.)

Specifically to Anomoly, VI Lenin, BlackFlag, and several others whose screen names I seem to have forgotten I hope that I have not made enemies. I did not come in here with a predetermined solution. You provided one for me. FAREWELL!

The Voice

 

[Soviet_Guy]

I see that you a very opinionated person who observes from a far and makes his decision after very careful delibiration. I thank you for giving us your opinion and your decision to choose capitalism over Socialism, however I disagree with you, I have yet to be in tuned with this forum, I am sure I would have changed your view point had I signed up 3 months ago, but anyway.

Good Bye

 

[anomaly]

Yet the parties are SOCIAL, how can I explain top you, FPO, SOCIAL. France's party I don't known the name, but I can look it up, it was SOCIAL.

Social democracy is simply reformed capitalism that cannot exist but in the richest of capitalist countries. Only democratic socialism can help those truly in need, those turly suffering from capitalism.

 

[anomaly]

Sadly, you will find that VOR did in fact come in here with a predetermined solution and opinion. Your objectivity is simply false. You came in preaching capitalism, and it is no surprise to me and I'm sure not to my comrades that you leave preaching capitalism. I read your response, and found it not the base of 'reason' and 'purity' which you ascribed it, but rather as you simple opinion carefully guarded by generalizations of all kind. What you list is not fact, it is not fact at all. Do not call it so. I, in my system, have actually defined the 'macro' much better than the 'micro', and my system has a very solid base: demcoracy on the mostl ocal of levels, the unit of production. From such a base of democracy, more democracy flourishes, but apparently you did not scan my posts too carefully, for you could not even find this base. And I have actually persisted in arguing agaisnt the world sytem that is capitalism, not US deficiencies. Your persistence that your generalizations are fact become humorous in light of this. And the fact that you use massive genralizations to prove your point, or rather define you opinion, can lead me to only one conclusion, that you response in fact included scarcely any reason at all. The only point which you correctly observed was that both systems have some natural flaws, as any system does, and also that we on the left are utterly divided. Now, that being said, you are also blind to the fact that while we are not united in theory, we are united in our goals, and we have but one goa, and it is the eventual destruction of the oppressive system that is capitalism.

I suppose I am just one of those people 'not satisfied by fact', but then again this really isn't true. I am not satisfied with your objectivity, as surely one who values thought as highly as you would realize that objectivity is a myth. And yet, strangely enough, you say that you are 'objective' in your conclusion. You came in a capitalist, and I am quite happy to see you leave a capitalist. In conclusion I must say I am severely dissapointed with your lack of reason used to justify your position, as rather you use generalizations which simply don't apply to me or many of my comrades. Yes, your lack of any objectivity is quite apparent from the start.

 

[Soviet_Guy]

Nice. :applaud :good_job: :bravo: :respekt:

 

[Comrade Brian]

Yes, that and the other four reasons and the gazillion I didn't write.


Anybody hungry in this country, government programs notwithstanding, is either to stupid or lazy to walk to the nearest church or soup kitchen.

Okay now I'm confused. You've read my post of my visit to 1980's East Germany. I've got one guy screaming at me that that place was communist. Now you appear to be telling me it was socialist. Maybe you reds need to powwow and get your story straight. One fact that can't be changed is I saw that form of government with my own eyes and it sucked brontosaurus. Can you say you experienced it and it was grand. Once again my posts are from first hand experience that while maybe you can argue my perception leading to my opinions is flawed you can't say my facts seen with my own eyes are flawed. Doesn't anyone like my story about my drunken friends and I throwing snowballs at machine gun towers? Maybe you had to be there. I mean the two opposing superpowers, they had guns, I had snowballs.....oh never mind. Waiter,I'd like a Bourbon neat and a round of sense of humors for my friends here.........

A few months ago I read a Government report that stated about every week 4,000 people starve to death in the US

Yeah I'm sort of confused at this paragraph, but if these were communist, I must have read the Communist Manifesto wrong and many other works.

And most of the people in soup kitchens, etc. don't eat very often and usually go hungry a lot

 

[walrus]

A few months ago I read a Government report that stated about every week 4,000 people starve to death in the US

I have never heard a number even approaching this. I would appreciate either a link to this report or a reference that would allow me to find it.

 

[anomaly]

I too am interested to see such a report, comrade. But if you're trying to find flaws in the government's positions here at home, look no farther than the homeless shelters. Almost every homeless shelter is greatly underfunded or far too small to carry out its task. In fact, my insistence in my socialist system to have government funded homeless shelters stems not from what I see in other countries, but rather from what I see hear at home. In fact, my local homeless shelter is deeply underfunded, and private charity, which was attempted as a means to gather the needed finances, failed. We in the US treat our homeless like dirt. This can be changed with socialism, as the local governments will maintain shelters for those most in need.

 

[teacher]

[

QUOTE=anomaly]

Whose calling that place communist, teacher? I called in Communist, which is of course different from communism. Communist countries were essentially Stalinist Soviet sattelites. For convenience, I suppoe I'll refer to such countries as Stalinist from now on.

Swell. I now do unequivocally state: Stalinism sucks.

 

[teacher]

Once again, private enterprise will be illegal so no, you cannot start your own business. All business will be government owned and directly democratic.



Excellent. That statement lets me state without supporting evidence, thoughtful pondering, deep musing, references, links, or any kind of the shortest internal thought, your system sucks. It sucks bad. Just by reading it you can audibly hear a giant sucking sound. God that sucks. I couldn't go out into public again for fear of every living being on earth pointing at me always every time they see me for the rest of my life saying "your idea sucks". If there are parallel universes people in other dimensions are saying your idea sucks. You have raised the bar on ideas that suck really bad. Suck's zenith. Suck's pinnacle. The all time suckiest idea ever. All the black holes, vacuum cleaners, and cheap hookers squared don't suck that much. Man that idea sucks. I was reading this thread from the beginning and have been stopped dead by a giant this sucks force field. It's like the concept of sucking has physically manifested itself and sucked me to a stop. What a suck idea. Jupiter's gravity is to wayward asteroids as your comment is to sucks. What a suck idea. I can't believe you actually posted such a suck idea. If there was a law against sucking you would get the chair, while being shot, hanged, gassed and lethally injected. All the people in the world with really suck ideas can now say "at least I didn't suck that bad". That sucks. Fun is to a barrel full of monkeys as your idea is to sucking. The least opinionated person in the world can now write a thesis on how much your idea sucks. You startled God. Satan is abdicating. The best thing since is to sliced bread as your idea is to sucks. The guy with the previous suckiest idea ever just said "oh thank God at last". Dude, I got to tell you, your idea sucks. I'm never going to get over this. Hitler is to bad person as your idea is to sucks. The vacuum of space is impressed. BJ's won't be as good anymore. I can't taste food anymore that idea sucked so much. Torr is making a new scale. Vegas is giving 1000 to 1 odds that no idea ever will suck as bad. Nuns are siding with Vegas. That really sucks.

 

[V.I. Lenin]

Once again, private enterprise will be illegal so no, you cannot start your own business. All business will be government owned and directly democratic.



Excellent. That statement lets me state without supporting evidence, thoughtful pondering, deep musing, references, links, or any kind of the shortest internal thought, your system sucks. It sucks bad. Just by reading it you can audibly hear a giant sucking sound. God that sucks. I couldn't go out into public again for fear of every living being on earth pointing at me always every time they see me for the rest of my life saying "your idea sucks"..

...and all the other insults.

Wonderful, but care to explain why it sucks?

 

[teacher]

...and all the other insults.

Wonderful, but care to explain why it sucks?

Dude , maybe you didn't understand, that idea sucks so much that the inference of suckiness is implied. Or perhaps let me put it this way. That idea sucks. The obviousness of its state of suck is self evident. Perhaps the only thing that could possibly suck more than that statement is someone questioning why it sucks. Which it does. Sucks rather badly I might add. The guy who invented the square wheel says it sucks. If Mr. and Mrs. suck had a baby suck his first words would be "that sucks". The mold of suck has been broken. All other suck ideas on top of each other couldn't scratch the sole of this suck idea. So to put into the simplest of terms, that idea sucks.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Teacher, that is no way to conduct an intelligent debate/argument. Play nice or I'll throw you in the basement. Have a nice day :lol: .

 

[Soviet_Guy]

Okay, as I see it, this debate will never end, I have stated that I am for Socialism and have put down my reasons why, and that's it, at this point, there is no deadline, so there will be no end.

 

[teacher]

...and all the other insults.

Wonderful, but care to explain why it sucks?

One of the driving forces behind the success of America is the rewards of your ideas and labors. How hard would people try to work, be productive, creative, inventive ect. if their labors gave them little reward? You make it sound like in a work collective everyone is equally striving for the greater good. But you forget one important factor. Human nature. There has always been and will always be the lazy. Those willing to slack and let others carry the burden. Politics and alliances would soon destroy any fairness in your society. Greed and lust for power and control will always play it's hand. Many socialist ideas look perfect on paper. But it assumes humans will all play equally by the rules. Bro it just ain't gonna happen. The most important reason of all though why that statement just so totally sucks is, I have my own business. My knowledge and sweat is the reason for my success. My want to make my life better is the reason for my success. I don't force anyone to hire my services. They choose to. I don't steal, lie, or defraud anyone. I am happy. My customers are happy. Who am I hurting. You reds go on and on about the oppression of the workers. Guess who oppresses me. Me. When working for the man I might take 45 minutes on my 1/2 hour lunch break. My lunch break now is over when I'm done eating. In America if you go for the brass ring and fail you have only yourself to blame.

You see Gandhi I can do it. It just sounds like a big gay pep talk. Saying "it just sucks" is so much more eloquent.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

I don't agree with you when you say, "It sucks."

Your second attempt was sound and had logic and many other good things that I liked.

It sucks doesn't answer his question. A long paragraph going over the characteristics of "sucky" makes you sound like an idiot. Your second attempt proves you are not.

 

[Comrade Brian]

Dude , maybe you didn't understand, that idea sucks so much that the inference of suckiness is implied. Or perhaps let me put it this way. That idea sucks. The obviousness of its state of suck is self evident. Perhaps the only thing that could possibly suck more than that statement is someone questioning why it sucks. Which it does. Sucks rather badly I might add. The guy who invented the square wheel says it sucks. If Mr. and Mrs. suck had a baby suck his first words would be "that sucks". The mold of suck has been broken. All other suck ideas on top of each other couldn't scratch the sole of this suck idea. So to put into the simplest of terms, that idea sucks.

Are you obsessed with yhe word "suck"

maybe your reasons "suck"

 

[cavehunter]

So socialism is the basis of a democracy. no wonder they're so corrupt. I mean democracies are mob rules. Republics are governments with public voice but also safeguards to keep things out of hand.

Stupid Socs! They make me feel

 

[Soviet_Guy]

You make me sick. :tomato: :blowup:

 

[Comrade Brian]

Hey, Cavehunter,

Why do capitalist leaders claim they're spreading democracy if they're really spreading republics?

The US spreads more dictatorships than anyone else

 

[cavehunter]

Hey, Cavehunter,

Why do capitalist leaders claim they're spreading democracy if they're really spreading republics?

The US spreads more dictatorships than anyone else

The school system has so much liberal crap in it, that we are taught that we live in a democracy. That is the reason they say democracy rather than republic.

By the way, the reason educated people are often communist and liberal isn't because the knowledge and thinking ability causes such thinking, but rather college professors worm their own ideas into their students minds. The students are striving so hard to learn that they take in anything. So when a liberal leaves college. He is only a liberal because he allowed himself to be brainwashed.

 

[Quertol]

DO the words represnetative republic mean anything to anyone? Ever heard of that?

 

[Comrade Brian]

The school system has so much liberal crap in it, that we are taught that we live in a democracy. That is the reason they say democracy rather than republic.

By the way, the reason educated people are often communist and liberal isn't because the knowledge and thinking ability causes such thinking, but rather college professors worm their own ideas into their students minds. The students are striving so hard to learn that they take in anything. So when a liberal leaves college. He is only a liberal because he allowed himself to be brainwashed.

Do you suffer from paranoia?

schools are more conservative than either liberal or left-wing

 

[cavehunter]

DO the words represnetative republic mean anything to anyone? Ever heard of that?

Nice sig. Yes I've heard of a representive Republic.

 

[cavehunter]

Do you suffer from paranoia?

schools are more conservative than either liberal or left-wing

If it truly is more conservative how come liberals claim to be more educated? You just try to prove it is more conservative.