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So you think electric cars are great

The Old Soul

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Biggest problem is we're total energy hogs; a ton or two of metal propelled by engines many times the required horsepower to run to Starbucks for a cup-O-Joe, huge houses we insist on keeping at a comfortable 72 degrees in tropical and arctic climates, lighting our cities to near daylight as soon as the sun goes down, and the millions of tons of goods we toss in the trash every day.

Conspicuous consumption is so 20th Century. And considering pending legislation, electric cars and emissions appear to be very political.
 

Jay59

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Anyone who thinks electric cars are environmentally superior is not looking at the science. While there is almost no particulate pollution, the impact of making batteries is substantial. Disposal of used batteries is an ongoing issue.

That said, there is a lot of progress toward replacing small gasoline engines, particularly two-stroke engines. These are much worse polluters than cars on a per gallon basis, plus the noise can be pollution in its own right. Work time per charge is still an issue, but reliability is top drawer. Even Walmart is carrying multiple lines of rechargeable shop and garden tools.

What I want to know is, where is the excitement over the cycles? Even Harley has a nice one.


Harley-Davidson-LiveWire-1.jpg
 

calamity

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Anyone who thinks electric cars are environmentally superior is not looking at the science. While there is almost no particulate pollution, the impact of making batteries is substantial. Disposal of used batteries is an ongoing issue.

That said, there is a lot of progress toward replacing small gasoline engines, particularly two-stroke engines. These are much worse polluters than cars on a per gallon basis, plus the noise can be pollution in its own right. Work time per charge is still an issue, but reliability is top drawer. Even Walmart is carrying multiple lines of rechargeable shop and garden tools.

What I want to know is, where is the excitement over the cycles? Even Harley has a nice one.


Harley-Davidson-LiveWire-1.jpg
Air pollution from internal combustion engines in large metro areas is a huge problem. It's the new coal fired furnace. They gotta go.

Personally, my joy of the EV is the smooth ride, rapid acceleration and quiet. I'd love to see every ****ing loud-ass Harley replaced by E-Bikes.
 

iguanaman

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What I find really, really stupid is that the two occupants in the car weren't even in the front seats. There was nobody at the controls. They were both in the back seat when the car hit the tree. (I wonder what they were doing back there.)

But yeah...it is very concerning that those lithium batteries turn out to be very difficult to extinguish when they catch fire.
Yes you can just blow out burning gasoline like a candle. :D A cup of gasoline has the explosive power of a stick of dynamite.
 

SCrider

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You will be buying an E car sooner or later. Gasoline cars are not going to be made in a few years and the gas stations are going to close. Get used to it.
I have a feeling his age will win that bet, and he won't.
 

iguanaman

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Not really, since self-sealing tanks are now a thing.

The battery issue is just a technical challenge. But there's no denying that it is still a thing.
LOL Self-sealing tanks?

 

iguanaman

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Cars and all man made CO2 amounts to 6 parts in a million per year, when the total atmosphere is concerned.
Cars alone make up the bulk of CO2 emissions from transportation which was 8 Billion tons in 2018

IEA-Transport-to-2070-800x505.png

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PIPEWRENCH

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Cafe regulations have made pickups so big

The fuel economy standards for Cafe was made into a complex calculation which included the size of the fleet sold adjusted the required economy lower. Which encouraged companies to make larger vehicles rather than smaller. Not to mention the demand for larger trucks pushed manufacturers to make bigger trucks. The F150 crew cab can fit 6 people and let people have shoulder room, and lots of leg space. Mine gets about the same fuel economy as a non hybrid minivan
The problem with the bigger trucks is that most still only have 1 person in the vehicle and they are not hauling anything. I had 1 ton diesel 4door 4WD with 8' box. I used it to take the family camping and tow the RV or boat. I as used it to pull my trailer and carry heavy loads. I used a much smaller economical car for driving around. I got 26mpg empty and 19 fully loaded pulling a 8000lb trailer on the highway which was where I did most of the driving with the vehicle. The problem in this country is too many 2 to 4 ton vehicles with only a single person in it. I think the democrats will solve that. Gas usually gets up near 5 bucks a gallon when they are in office.
 

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How many on the forum has seen the report of the electric Tesla that hit a tree. It was on fire for 3 hours. Firemen couldnt put out the fire, and they even called Tesla.

The whole dam car burned to just a short pile of rubble. The whole thing turned out to be a huge HASMAT situation.
Lithium batteries can be crazy in how they burn. Those batteries are also in about every electronic device we own.
 

Logical1

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One other huge problem is that if everyone got electric cars and started charging them at night the local power infrastructure could handle the load, even is all that power was available.
 

poweRob

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How many on the forum has seen the report of the electric Tesla that hit a tree. It was on fire for 3 hours. Firemen couldnt put out the fire, and they even called Tesla.

The whole dam car burned to just a short pile of rubble. The whole thing turned out to be a huge HASMAT situation.
Did you know that gas is flammable and that when you drive, you are sitting on a veritable bomb of 10, 15 or 20 gallons or so of that flammable liquid?
 
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poweRob

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One other huge problem is that if everyone got electric cars and started charging them at night the local power infrastructure could handle the load, even is all that power was available.
And you think you know this how?
 

ecofarm

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"Glory Days"
 

Juks

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Lithium batteries can be crazy in how they burn. Those batteries are also in about every electronic device we own.
An electic cars is less prone to catch fire than a petrol car but yes, electric cars entail different risks than petrol cars and firefighters as well as tow truck people and car repair shops must have the right knowledge about how to handle it. Lithium batteries are becoming more common, not only in cars but in everything from solar cells on rooftops to toys such as hoverboards. With the right knowledge, we can eliminate the risks. To begin with, there is a risk that a lithium-ion battery in a collision will be affected by so-called thermal rush, which in turn leads to, among other things, the very toxic gas hydrogen fluoride being developed. The gas risks getting through the standard protective suits and into the skin. Thermal surge in a lithium battery can also cause the battery to re-ignite long after the fire is extinguished.
If the car needs to be loaded at an accident site, there must for example, be knowledge that the scissors cannot be put in the base plate. Since an electric car can start burning again long after the fire has been extinguished, the rescuer must also know that the vehicle must be taken to a quarantine place. Then the repair shop or the car scrap must know how to make the assessment when it is safe..
 

gino

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You young pups seem to think we old guys are just being negative about "the newest thing". That isn't it. We of advanced age have seen many of "the next big thing" that have failed. Electric cars just aren't there yet. If they were, they'd be more prevalent in the market. There is good reason not to be the first to jump on a new tech.
 

Juks

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You young pups seem to think we old guys are just being negative about "the newest thing". That isn't it. We of advanced age have seen many of "the next big thing" that have failed. Electric cars just aren't there yet. If they were, they'd be more prevalent in the market. There is good reason not to be the first to jump on a new tech.
Well you aren't the first. We have had electric cars in about 30 years now and they have gotten much better than they used to be. In Sweden , pure electric cars accounted for 19.2 percent of registrations, and plug-in hybrids for 30.1 percent last year.

I guess that in many countries in Europe the figures are the same.
 

Fishking

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You young pups seem to think we old guys are just being negative about "the newest thing". That isn't it. We of advanced age have seen many of "the next big thing" that have failed. Electric cars just aren't there yet. If they were, they'd be more prevalent in the market. There is good reason not to be the first to jump on a new tech.
We have a true hybrid minivan that really gives you the best of everything. The batter is smaller but still gives you a little over 30 miles on a charge. That means that short trips around town won't use any gas. However, it also still has a gas tank for when that runs out so we can still do cross-country trips without any issues.

Full EVs aren't practical for most people, unless you have an extra vehicle that you only plan on using in your immediate area. What we have is actually really nice and I think should be the bigger push.
 

Fishking

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Well you aren't the first. We have had electric cars in about 30 years now and they have gotten much better than they used to be. In Sweden , pure electric cars accounted for 19.2 percent of registrations, and plug-in hybrids for 30.1 percent last year.

I guess that in many countries in Europe the figures are the same.
Europe is built much differently than the U.S., from what I understand. We are much more spread out, which makes EVs less practical, unless it's a second vehicle.
 

ElChupacabra

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What I find really, really stupid is that the two occupants in the car weren't even in the front seats. There was nobody at the controls. They were both in the back seat when the car hit the tree. (I wonder what they were doing back there.)

But yeah...it is very concerning that those lithium batteries turn out to be very difficult to extinguish when they catch fire.
Managing expectations is important with technology, and it seems like you have people out there who think auto driving technology is far more advanced than it actually is. I think anyone remotely familiar with what it would take to code software to be as responsive as human reactions in every driving scenario, road condition etc. would likely be very skeptical to have that level of trust. I've driven a Tesla, and it's impressive technology on the highway, but there's no way I'm not keeping my eye on the road in auto pilot mode.
 

Juks

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Europe is built much differently than the U.S., from what I understand. We are much more spread out, which makes EVs less practical, unless it's a second vehicle.
Well, this is correct for most off Europe, but not for Sweden. In the north off Sweden it is not unusual to have 200 km to nearest town. And, petrol cars or hybrids are more common in those parts than pure electric cars (which I would say are scares in those parts off Sweden). The problem with the electric cars is not on function but that there are fewer loading places and the time it takes fully charge the batteries (It takes about 6 hours, more for older electric cars) . Hybrids though are more popular, you can use both electrics and petrol depending on how far you are going to travel that day or you can start off by using the electrics (which is cheaper) and when your batteries are empty, continue your trip with petrol.
 

Juks

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The upside is that it is simple and cheap to install an outtake in your own garage at home so you can just plug it in when you come home and you will have a fully charge car the next morning and can drive up to 600 km on it before you need to charge it again. Don't have to look for any gas station ..
 

Fishking

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Well, this is correct for most off Europe, but not for Sweden. In the north off Sweden it is not unusual to have 200 km to nearest town. And, petrol cars or hybrids are more common in those parts than pure electric cars (which I would say are scares in those parts off Sweden). The problem with the electric cars is not on function but that there are fewer loading places and the time it takes fully charge the batteries (It takes about 6 hours, more for older electric cars) . Hybrids though are more popular, you can use both electrics and petrol depending on how far you are going to travel that day or you can start off by using the electrics (which is cheaper) and when your batteries are empty, continue your trip with petrol.
Yup...I have a plugin hybrid minivan that can go a little over 30 miles on electric and then the gas will engage. It gives advantages of both worlds and it's pretty nice.
 
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