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So you think electric cars are great

And automobiles have done such wonders for our air quality, and our health. Maybe going back to horses wouldn't be a bad idea.
Seriously?

NEW YORK (CBS 2) — It’s a smelly problem that New York City apparently doesn’t want a whiff of – horse manure left by carriage horses has some people furious.

CBS 2’s Marcia Kramer found it in crosswalks along Central Park South, where pedestrians and bicyclists had to navigate around it, and all over the Central Park roadway, where many find it — you should pardon the term — a nagging problem. There are many names for it, but horse manure is the most polite. It’s left by carriage horses.

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“The dust, the dirt, the smell … it makes it hard to walk, run, do anything out here,” Manhattan resident Asher Lipman said. “It’s terrible. I’m glad you’re doing something about it.”

New York City carriage horse euthanized after collapsing in Central Park​

MANHATTAN, New York (WABC) -- A 12-year-old mare had to be euthanized Saturday evening following an acute medical emergency, according to the Historic Horse-Drawn Carriages of Central Park.

The horse showed sudden signs of distress around 12:30 p.m. on Saturday in Central Park after doing a single ride and then waiting for approximately an hour and a half at the 7th Ave carriage stand.

Historic Horse-Drawn Carriages of Central Park's vet and their emergency horse trailer were called immediately, and the horse unhitched and unharnessed. She progressively and rapidly weakened in her hind end and unexpectedly collapsed.

Horse officials say the trailer arrived within 10 minutes of the call and, since the horse could not stand, she was slid into the trailer, following large animal rescue protocols, and returned to her stable on 52nd St.

Her regular vet was able to begin assessment and treatment within an hour, according to horse officials. Unfortunately, she was never able to stand, apparently due to cardiac insufficiency in her hind end, and her owner, in consultation with the vet, made the difficult decision to put her to sleep.
That is present day. Better than it was when the horse was the only choice.
In the past, the horse related problem was far more horrendous, 1/2 starving horses, whipped to pull the wagon / carriage, an explosion of horse manure to clean up every day, the inevitable dead horses laying in the street waiting to be carted off to the glue factory.

You are advocating a return those conditions? Seriously?
 
How many on the forum has seen the report of the electric Tesla that hit a tree. It was on fire for 3 hours. Firemen couldnt put out the fire, and they even called Tesla.

The whole dam car burned to just a short pile of rubble. The whole thing turned out to be a huge HASMAT situation.
Lithium is a very reactive metal and toxic, mining it an refining it to be usable is an ecological disaster. Less reactive metals don't make for good batteries, causing greater bulk and weight.

Battery cars are a dead end. Hydrogen powered cars are the way to go. The fuel, should it leak, is harmless the moment is diffuses in the air sufficiently not to support combustion (seconds), and it has more energy density than batteries. The use case is exactly like the present vehicles, run low, pull into a filling station, fill it up in a few minutes, and off you go some more. Exhaust is simply H2O.
 
Not so. Do you realize that back then all the cities were full of horse schidtt????
No, I didn't live back then. Evidently you did. I'm not the ancient person you are.
And automobiles have done such wonders for our air quality, and our health. Maybe going back to horses wouldn't be a bad idea.
Then ride a horse back and forth across the country and ride that mother****er to work everyday. I much prefer driving my Porsche Boxster.
 
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How many on the forum has seen the report of the electric Tesla that hit a tree. It was on fire for 3 hours. Firemen couldnt put out the fire, and they even called Tesla.

The whole dam car burned to just a short pile of rubble. The whole thing turned out to be a huge HASMAT situation.
I love studying battery fires. US Firefighters need to learn how to better put these out. The squirting water idea isn't working.


 
Our fears of big government leads to a failure for planning.

We have a lot of cars on the road with batteries that need special training and equipment in the case of wrecks, but no national plan on how we may do that.
 
Our fears of big government leads to a failure for planning.

We have a lot of cars on the road with batteries that need special training and equipment in the case of wrecks, but no national plan on how we may do that.
One reason I despise the libertarian movement. It's short-sighted and rather stupid.
 
Lithium is a very reactive metal and toxic, mining it an refining it to be usable is an ecological disaster. Less reactive metals don't make for good batteries, causing greater bulk and weight.

Battery cars are a dead end. Hydrogen powered cars are the way to go. The fuel, should it leak, is harmless the moment is diffuses in the air sufficiently not to support combustion (seconds), and it has more energy density than batteries. The use case is exactly like the present vehicles, run low, pull into a filling station, fill it up in a few minutes, and off you go some more. Exhaust is simply H2O.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but science has not yet made the extraction of hydrogen cost effective enough. We use it to power rockets because there is usually great benefit from the space program.
 
One reason I despise the libertarian movement. It's short-sighted and rather stupid.
Libertarians are correct about a lot of things, but the things they are wrong about get people killed.

Could be said of any political movement.
 
Unfortunately, electric cars just aren't there yet. If they were, we would be seeing more of them on the road. It is prob going to be 10 or 20 years before the tech is advanced enough to actually see a significant percentage of electric cars on the road. And then, it will prob be only for certain applications. For instance, I could have an electric car to drive to work each day, cause I live close to my workplace. But I couldn't use an electric car to drive down to see my brother, cause he lives too far away, and I can't get there on one charge.

What we need to see, is a married couple with two cars, one electric and one gas powered. Use the electric car for in-town trips, and the gas car for extended trips. The problem is, all the electric cars are too expensive to be a "second car", and I can't have only an electric car cause it doesn't have the range to go on extended trips.

My guess is that most of the posters here who are supporting all electric cars must live in a city where all their driving is relatively close. For many of us, the limited range kills the idea of an electric car.
 
Unfortunately, electric cars just aren't there yet. If they were, we would be seeing more of them on the road. It is prob going to be 10 or 20 years before the tech is advanced enough to actually see a significant percentage of electric cars on the road. And then, it will prob be only for certain applications. For instance, I could have an electric car to drive to work each day, cause I live close to my workplace. But I couldn't use an electric car to drive down to see my brother, cause he lives too far away, and I can't get there on one charge.

What we need to see, is a married couple with two cars, one electric and one gas powered. Use the electric car for in-town trips, and the gas car for extended trips. The problem is, all the electric cars are too expensive to be a "second car", and I can't have only an electric car cause it doesn't have the range to go on extended trips.

My guess is that most of the posters here who are supporting all electric cars must live in a city where all their driving is relatively close. For many of us, the limited range kills the idea of an electric car.
There is also the trucking industry to think about. What amount of Lithium batteries can pull a 53' tractor trailer loaded up with 40K pounds of merchandise? What about the service industry? Many service vans and trucks are loaded up with parts and tools and have to make stops all day long. No electric vehicle is going to work for that. And the construction industry. Pulling around backhoes and other heavy equipment with loaded dump trucks.

We have a long way to go to get completely away from fossil fuels. Making our electricity from green sources is something that will be achievable and I am all for that.
 
Making our electricity from green sources is something that will be achievable and I am all for that.

Unfortunately, green sources of energy aren't that green, and much more expensive than fossil fuels. A few years ago, even the environmental groups came to the conclusion that the only economical way to generate electricity on a national level and get rid of fossil fuels was to go nuclear power in a huge way. They (mainstream environmental groups) were just at the verge of endorsing nuclear power, when the Fukushima accident happened and that ended.
 
Unfortunately, green sources of energy aren't that green, and much more expensive than fossil fuels. A few years ago, even the environmental groups came to the conclusion that the only economical way to generate electricity on a national level and get rid of fossil fuels was to go nuclear power in a huge way. They (mainstream environmental groups) were just at the verge of endorsing nuclear power, when the Fukushima accident happened and that ended.
I have always been a huge fan of nuclear power. We just need to make these powerplants more durable and safer. Everything in life comes at a cost.
 
Correct me if I am wrong here, but science has not yet made the extraction of hydrogen cost effective enough. We use it to power rockets because there is usually great benefit from the space program.
I believe this to be an accurate reflection of the present state.

The most cost effective means to obtain H is the electrolyzation of water, breaking the water molecules into H and O2, capturing and compressing those gasses.

In the car a fuel cell combines H from the fuel tank with O2 from the atmosphere to generate electricity in abundant quantities (one car could fully power a number of houses entire electrical needs - great for power outages!)

The great benefit to the space program is that a Liquid H / Liquid O2 powered rocket is using the most efficiently burning propellant mixtures in terms of energy / weight.
 
I have always been a huge fan of nuclear power. We just need to make these powerplants more durable and safer. Everything in life comes at a cost.
Nuclear Fission is always going to have long term radioactive by products which pose the safe long term containment until decayed into safe, stable isotopes.
Thorium-based nuclear power to a lesser extent:

Nuclear Fusion suffers far less from this issue, if memory serves, but the required magnetic containment problem remains unsolved, but could lead to essentially unlimited energy production.

Those who believe wind, solar, wave is going to supply the growing demand are kidding themselves, and need to learn more about the physics involved.
 
Cars and all man made CO2 amounts to 6 parts in a million per year, when the total atmosphere is concerned.
Do you have any idea how much damage has been done to this planet making electricity? 3 mile island, fossil fuel burning, Chernobyl, Fukushima Daini, forest cut down for poles, etc. etc. We can't even recycle Styrofoam instead sending it to our landfills. What are we going to do with all those dead batteries. Put them in our land fills with the Styrofoam or drop them to the bottom of the ocean next to our nuclear waste with the large pile of plastic floating above it.
 
Correct me if I am wrong here, but science has not yet made the extraction of hydrogen cost effective enough. We use it to power rockets because there is usually great benefit from the space program.


The use of nuclear power would make hydrogen production cost effective. Nuclear plants are most efficient running at the same rate all the time. At night when general electrical demands are low the excess electricity can be used to produce hydrogen, a way to store energy. Without nuclear power the world will not work without carbon energy
 
Do you have any idea how much damage has been done to this planet making electricity? 3 mile island, fossil fuel burning, Chernobyl, Fukushima Daini, forest cut down for poles, etc. etc.
China is bringing multiple coal powered electrical plants online every week. They, more so than any other nation, needs to be in, and comply with, the Paris Accords. US is ahead of their targets.
We can't even recycle Styrofoam instead sending it to our landfills. What are we going to do with all those dead batteries. Put them in our land fills with the Styrofoam or drop them to the bottom of the ocean next to our nuclear waste with the large pile of plastic floating above it.
 
I think the best idea to reduce the use of fossil fuels is to start reducing our power requirements by using already mature tech. Why aren't we all using solar water heaters and why don't we use better insolation in our homes? There is no reason that the average US home couldn't see a 30% reduction in electrical use by using existing, mature tech that we already have. And why are pickup trucks so big? What happened to small/fuel efficient pickup trucks? Lots of room to improve right now with existing tech, why are we trying to force electric cars on ourselves when they aren't ready yet?
 
How many on the forum has seen the report of the electric Tesla that hit a tree. It was on fire for 3 hours. Firemen couldnt put out the fire, and they even called Tesla.

The whole dam car burned to just a short pile of rubble. The whole thing turned out to be a huge HASMAT situation.

Why did you post about a car accident in the "General Political Discussion" forum? There is nothing political about your story and two people are dead (not that you care).
 
Batteries contain valuable elements which can be extracted and recycled, it will cost energy but generally recycled metals cost less to produce than freshly mined ores
 
China is bringing multiple coal powered electrical plants online every week. They, more so than any other nation, needs to be in, and comply with, the Paris Accords. US is ahead of their targets.


China’s CO2 emissions on a per capita basis are just over half that of the US
 
I think the best idea to reduce the use of fossil fuels is to start reducing our power requirements by using already mature tech. Why aren't we all using solar water heaters and why don't we use better insolation in our homes? There is no reason that the average US home couldn't see a 30% reduction in electrical use by using existing, mature tech that we already have. And why are pickup trucks so big? What happened to small/fuel efficient pickup trucks? Lots of room to improve right now with existing tech, why are we trying to force electric cars on ourselves when they aren't ready yet?


Cafe regulations have made pickups so big

The fuel economy standards for Cafe was made into a complex calculation which included the size of the fleet sold adjusted the required economy lower. Which encouraged companies to make larger vehicles rather than smaller. Not to mention the demand for larger trucks pushed manufacturers to make bigger trucks. The F150 crew cab can fit 6 people and let people have shoulder room, and lots of leg space. Mine gets about the same fuel economy as a non hybrid minivan
 
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