So...when, exactly, was America greater than she is now?

[Glen Contrarian]

In that time, you had the great prosperity. emersion and expansion of the middle class, victory in WW2, economic equality, one of the fastest expansions of the US economy in history, the emergence of the United States as the foremost world power, the advent and implementation of nuclear energy, victory in the space race, and perhaps more importantly an integral democracy as opposed to the modern plutocracy that reigns today ( https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites...testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf ), etc...

The present is a great time to be rich, and not so much anything else.

Try Googling the following:

What was the poverty rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's literacy rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's educational attainment rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's percentage of population covered by health insurance in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's workforce participation rate in the 1950's compared to now? This one was a real surprise to me.

Now, if we add all the above to the segregation, the still strongly-extant Jim Crow during the 1950's...

...and it becomes apparent that anyone who thinks America was greater in the 1950's than today is a shining example of those who don't realize that the "good old days" weren't so good after all....

 

[Captain America]

I see that "never been as great as it is now" was not given as an option. So I couldn't vote.

 

[Surrealistik]

Try Googling the following:

What was the poverty rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's literacy rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's educational attainment rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's percentage of population covered by health insurance in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's workforce participation rate in the 1950's compared to now? This one was a real surprise to me.

Now, if we add all the above to the segregation, the still strongly-extant Jim Crow during the 1950's...

...and it becomes apparent that anyone who thinks America was greater in the 1950's than today is a shining example of those who don't realize that the "good old days" weren't so good after all....

Workforce participation rate isn't at all surprise and is readily explained by the fact that mothers tended to be homemakers and that people could actually afford to have one breadwinner during the 50s and 60s; now a typical family requires multiple breadwinners sometimes working multiple jobs.

Second poverty rates were actually lower in the late 60s and in the 70s which was part of my range (50s to mid 70s).

Finally, the advantages that the present does have relative to that past range are completely overshadowed by economic inequality and the de facto plutocracy that festers now vs the legitimate democracy that existed prior.

 

[The Mark]

America, and for that matter the world, has been getting steadily greater since it started.

 

[WCH]

Ah. Which party is it that always wants to slash taxes in accordance with Reaganomics? And which party gets castigated for even suggesting that maybe, just maybe the rich can afford even a slightly higher tax rate? Hm?

25 to 90 is a bit more than 'slight'.

 

[mmi]

America, and for that matter the world, has been getting steadily greater since it started.

Bingo.

 

[bluesmoke]

America, and for that matter the world, has been getting steadily greater since it started.

I agree. Not all Americans, though have been doing greater these past many years. The poor are fairly high percentage of our population, about 15%, with about 20% of children in poverty. Those with less have gotten less and those with the most have gotten more. The Patriot Act, Citizens United, gutting the Civil Rights Act, making it more difficult for people to vote for no reason, making it easier for conglomerates to conglomerate (thanks, Slick Willie) and moving money to the top while tinkle-down never, to this day, has worked in this rigged economy. We had more freedom pre-9/11 and the median wage is lower now than then. America is at it's greatest. But the average American hasn't been doing so great for some years now.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

25 to 90 is a bit more than 'slight'.

Who said anything about going back up to 90? Obama suggested what was it, 36 or 39 percent, and the Right had a cow.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Ok, I've been reading your recent posts here, so I have a question: What society/era would you consider to be Utopian?

From the way you're talking, there must be one. Or, are you merely living up to your screen name?

I've said many times on DP that today, right now is the best time in human history, that - relative to population - the world has never been as peaceful in all recorded human history.

Does this mean we're in a utopia? Of course not - a perfect society is impossible if it includes human beings, and it's not going to happen this side of Heaven.

I remember taking a course in Deming management back in the day, and one of his main points was to constantly search for improvement...but do not search for absolute perfection.

In other words, if we were to look only at all the problems that are shoved in front of our faces thanks to the 24/7 media/internet, we'd be sure the world's going to hell in the proverbial handbasket. Without the guide of history, we'd have no clue as to just how good we've got it - we'd have no points of reference. But if we do not forget our history - not just the good parts but the bad parts, too - then we can see just how good we have it today. We would not know how very grateful we should be that we live in the modern day and time.

And that reminds me of a quote by Cicero - "Gratitude is the greatest of virtues, and the parent of all the others." Without gratitude in things great and small, we can't have real happiness - we can't know just how good we have it.

History...and gratitude. If you were to meet me, you'd find I'm one of the happiest people you'd ever meet...and that's my secret: my understanding of history and my sense of gratitude in things great and small both combine to help me remember just how good I've got it. And I am a happy camper indeed.

 

[Mr Person]

As I figured, everyone voted for the 50s.

Europe and Asia were mostly devastated by the two world wars. Their infrastructure, their men, their women, their children. The Soviets and Chinese consumed themselves with civil war and communism. We alone lost men and resources and even then, fewer on a percentage basis in general. Our manufacturing capabilities were at peak capacity - they'd been tasked with staving off doomday.

We hit the ground sprinting. Everyone else hit it at a wounded sloth's crawl.



OF COURSE we were at our best relative to the rest of the world in the 50s.





* No doubt, some women were killed in some part of the war effort. But you get my point.

 

[Howler63]

I would say from the 50's to the 80's/90's with a hiccup in the late 60's. Been a downhill slide since Clinton's first term.

 

[PeteEU]

The US did not lose Vietnam...

yes they did. They left the country with their tails between their legs and their puppets got kicked out. That is a loss pure and simple.

 

[The Mark]

I agree. Not all Americans, though have been doing greater these past many years. The poor are fairly high percentage of our population, about 15%, with about 20% of children in poverty. Those with less have gotten less and those with the most have gotten more. The Patriot Act, Citizens United, gutting the Civil Rights Act, making it more difficult for people to vote for no reason, making it easier for conglomerates to conglomerate (thanks, Slick Willie) and moving money to the top while tinkle-down never, to this day, has worked in this rigged economy. We had more freedom pre-9/11 and the median wage is lower now than then. America is at it's greatest. But the average American hasn't been doing so great for some years now.

There are indeed areas which have become less instead of more. We need to address this, and become greater by doing so.

 

[Bodi]

yes they did. They left the country with their tails between their legs and their puppets got kicked out. That is a loss pure and simple.

Nope. We left because we were not allowed to fight the war. We had our hands tied behind our backs... so we left.

 

[Tigerace117]

yes they did. They left the country with their tails between their legs and their puppets got kicked out. That is a loss pure and simple.

I still think we won militarily.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I still think we won militarily.

You can make that argument, however military action does not exist in a vacuum.

 

[Tigerace117]

You can make that argument, however military action does not exist in a vacuum.

That's true, but had Congress not refused to allow us to maintain bases in South Vietnam--- air power, if nothing else--- things would have ended differently.

 

[Jredbaron96]

That's true, but had Congress not refused to allow us to maintain bases in South Vietnam--- air power, if nothing else--- things would have ended differently.

While I do enjoy my alternate history, I've found that asking a lot of "What If's" sort of defeats the whole purpose of studying history.

 

[bluesmoke]

There are indeed areas which have become less instead of more. We need to address this, and become greater by doing so.

Would you be willing to become less "greater" a nation compared to the rest of the world to bring up the average guy within our nation?

 

[Tigerace117]

While I do enjoy my alternate history, I've found that asking a lot of "What If's" sort of defeats the whole purpose of studying history.

That's true, but it's a good mental exercise IMO.

 

[Eric7216]

Fortunately, the overwhelming number of economists strongly disagree with you. But I get it - just like with the climatologists concerning global warming, since the economists are highly educated, since they're part of academia, they're automatically wrong.

Actually you don't get it. An increase in crime since 2014 has meaning, just like a 18 month decrease in economic growth.
Have no idea why you are babbling about climate change.

 

[Eric7216]

Census data only went up to 2008.

Point is, significantly more people didn't vote in the past than they do today. Painting the past in a rose tinted light is very easy to do.

Well, people vote based on their rose tinted beliefs. And therefore that makes a reality. Perhaps Gallup captures the mood of the country.

 

[FluffyNinja]

Meh......"Great" is a relative term. The answer depends entirely upon how one measures "greatness".

 

[Eric7216]

Try Googling the following:

What was the poverty rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's literacy rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's educational attainment rate in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's percentage of population covered by health insurance in the 1950's compared to now?

What was the nation's workforce participation rate in the 1950's compared to now? This one was a real surprise to me.

Now, if we add all the above to the segregation, the still strongly-extant Jim Crow during the 1950's...

...and it becomes apparent that anyone who thinks America was greater in the 1950's than today is a shining example of those who don't realize that the "good old days" weren't so good after all....

Countries Compared by Economy > GDP per capita in 1950. International Statistics at NationMaster.com
• GDP per capita 2016, by country
So, US has dropped from #1 in GDP per capita to 5th

Not sure about your literacy data. UNESCO did not evaluate the US in their most recent study. One study shows that the world has caught up to the US, and has progressed much more rapidly. However, other reports indicate that the US is not doing very well, currently, in literacy.
https://ourworldindata.org/literacy/
The U.S. Illiteracy Rate Hasn't Changed In 10 Years
We are doing great on incarceration rates. Definite improvement in that area.

Don't forget that we have been in continual wars since 2001.

Afghanistan (2001–2014) The Taliban government harbored Osama bin Laden and the al-Qaeda terrorist group, responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States. After Afghanistan refused to turn over Bin Laden, the U.S. and UN coalition forces invaded. The Taliban government was ousted and many terrorist camps in Afghanistan were destroyed. U.S. and NATO troops remain in Afghanistan to support its fragile new government.

Iraq War (2003–2010) The U.S. and Great Britain invaded and toppled the government of dictator Saddam Hussein. Troops remain in Iraq to combat the insurgency that formed after Hussein's defeat.

War Against the Islamic State (ISIS) (2014—) The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), also called Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), has terrorized large swaths of Iraq and Syria in its drive to establish an Islamic state in the Middle East ruled by strict shariah law. The militant group is made up of fundamentalist Sunni Muslims and foreign jihadists. In September 2014, President Barack Obama authorized airstrikes against ISIS in Syria. He was clear that he does not plan to deploy ground troops in the fight against ISIS.

President Obama will go down as the first US President to be involved in wars for the entirety of 2 terms.

 

[PeteEU]

I still think we won militarily.

And you won venereal disease and drug wise.. so what? The political goals were not reached which is the goal of any war.