So is keeping 30 million people from insurance the best the GOP can do?

[ttwtt78640]

again, I find it odd that you are the only person on the planet to be completely unaware of all the “Obama wants to kill old people” lies.

Republican National Committee Chair Revives Death Panel Smear Against Obamacare
“And then he dropped the death panels line — “what people don’t want are government panels deciding whether something’s medically necessary.”
Republican National Committee Chair Revives Death Panel Smear Against Obamacare | ThinkProgress

"On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law."
False Euthanasia Claims




remember your hyperbole was “republicans were locked out of the debate”. did they change the locks? Your lack of knowledge on the subject seems endless.

“Almost no one is noting the extraordinary influence Republicans had on the healthcare reform bill crafted by the Senate, as it made its way through the committee process last year. The bill approved by Sen. Christopher Dodd’s Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee, for instance, included 161 amendments authored by Republicans. Only 49 Republican amendments were rejected out of 210 considered. Yet the bill got zero Republican votes when it passed out of the committee.
Fact-checking the GOP on healthcare reform - Salon.com

The six Republican ideas already in the health-care reform bill
6) And finally, we shouldn't forget the compromises that have been the most painful for Democrats, and the most substantive. This is a private-market plan. Not only is single-payer off the table, but at this point, so too is the public option. The thing that liberals want most in the world has been compromised away.
On Sunday, John Boehner and Mitch McConnell responded to Barack Obama's summit invitation by demanding Obama scrap the health-care reform bill entirely. This is the context for that demand. What they want isn't a bill that incorporates their ideas. They've already got that. What they want is no bill at all. And that's a hard position for the White House to compromise with.

Ezra Klein - The six Republican ideas already in the health-care reform bill

It is pure BS to say that republicants were responsible for a 99% demorat bill, especially on a "major" or "fundamental" part of it. PPACA passed with ZERO republicant votes. What possible leverage did the republicants possess to get this alleged compromise?

As far as these 6 points of compromise let me address them:

1) Any state can simply unilaterally say no, thus they have the same power to keep their own state free of any policy/feature allowed in another state that they want to.

2) Again the exchanges are still in only one state, thus the "pool" is limitted to which members and "options" the federal/state gov't allows it to choose from.

3) Name ONE red state that was allowed to do this.

4) "It's not entirely clear what this means" but we are assured that PPACA covers/includes it.

5 & 6) Are not even in the same league as the first four, but needed to make Ezra's point.

 

[Vern]

Ahhh, I see...you're conflating the concern that healthcare will be decided by a panel of govt beancounters with "Obama is trying to kill old people." Hyperbole.

actually in your zeal to run away from your silly comments you missed that I address both death panels and euthanasia lies from republicans. I (correctly) figured you would play games to cut and run from your silly "I don't remember anyone claiming Obama wants to kill old people...not even the extremists" which you tried to morph into "How about you show us a quote of a republican saying "Obama wants to kill old people."
now read this part again slowly.

"McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut your life short."

Salon? Lol, really? Name one of these Republican ammendments and who authored it. As for changing the locks, yes, they did that too.

what a weak reply. I'm not trying to prove something silly like "Obama is trying to kill old people" or "saddam sent the WMDs to syria". I simply stating a fact. so to attack the fact with the typical "I dont have to believe (put name of liberal media here)" is a sad as it is pointless. But its another example of you not knowing the facts and clinging to any sentence fragment or string of words rather than admit you dont know the facts.

"And Senator Lisa Murkowsi, Republican of Alaska, said that, while it was “pretty impressive” that 20 of her amendments got accepted, “they were all technical.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...nyway-for-the-amendments/?pagemode=print&_r=0

I cant wait for your next string of words to make the facts go away.

 

[mac]

actually in your zeal to run away from your silly comments you missed that I address both death panels and euthanasia lies from republicans. I (correctly) figured you would play games to cut and run from your silly "I don't remember anyone claiming Obama wants to kill old people...not even the extremists" which you tried to morph into "How about you show us a quote of a republican saying "Obama wants to kill old people."
now read this part again slowly.

"McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut your life short."

I'm not cutting anything. Conflating a legitimate concern that healthcare decisions would be made by bean counters with "Obama is killing people" is purely inflammatory nonsense. In Canada, England, and Germany...these "panels" already exist, and they're based on the very same principles as Obamacare.

what a weak reply. I'm not trying to prove something silly like "Obama is trying to kill old people" or "saddam sent the WMDs to syria". I simply stating a fact. so to attack the fact with the typical "I dont have to believe (put name of liberal media here)" is a sad as it is pointless. But its another example of you not knowing the facts and clinging to any sentence fragment or string of words rather than admit you dont know the facts.

"And Senator Lisa Murkowsi, Republican of Alaska, said that, while it was “pretty impressive” that 20 of her amendments got accepted, “they were all technical.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...nyway-for-the-amendments/?pagemode=print&_r=0

Name an amendment authored by Republicans. Just one. It would help if it were one that remained in the passed bill, by the way.

I cant wait for your next string of words to make the facts go away.

While you avoid the real impacts of Obamacare....employers cutting hours, laying off, and dropping spousal healthcare coverage. Not to mention rising premiums and taxes.

 

[Vern]

I'm not cutting anything. Conflating a legitimate concern that healthcare decisions would be made by bean counters with "Obama is killing people" is purely inflammatory nonsense.

oh mac, its always funny, when cons ‘paint themselves into a corner’ with their factless rhetoric. cons used the lying rhetoric “Obama wants to kill old people”. the first version of this lie was “death panels” as started by Sarah Palin. Subsequent versions were about “euthanasia”. You pretended not to know about these lies and demanded a republican quote. I provided more than one so you don’t get to pretend its some “blah blah bean counters” concern. And whats hypocritical about your ‘beancounter’ fear is they are making the decisions now. But again, you painted yourself into a corner so you spare no effort or delusion to twist and contort your way out.

Name an amendment authored by Republicans. Just one. It would help if it were one that remained in the passed bill, by the way.

Oh now I have to get specifics on an amendment that made it into the final version. Oh silly, see how you have to move the goal posts. If republicans had 161 amendments pass the committee, then republicans weren’t “locked out of the debate”. Your hyperbole is DOA. Oh that’s right, you will spare no effort or delusion to twist and contort your way out of your own rhetoric. read this slowly. republicans had no intention of working with dems. You simply cant explain how republicans were for the mandate until President Obama adopted it. (one of the many republican ideas in Obamacare).

While you avoid the real impacts of Obamacare....employers cutting hours, laying off, and dropping spousal healthcare coverage. Not to mention rising premiums and taxes.

a classic conservative dodge. when their rhetoric is exposed cons always scurry to the comfort of their silly narratives. Mac, those are just more lying narratives from the same liars who told you “obama wants to kill old people”.

 

[mac]

oh mac, its always funny, when cons ‘paint themselves into a corner’ with their factless rhetoric. cons used the lying rhetoric “Obama wants to kill old people”. the first version of this lie was “death panels” as started by Sarah Palin. Subsequent versions were about “euthanasia”. You pretended not to know about these lies and demanded a republican quote. I provided more than one so you don’t get to pretend its some “blah blah bean counters” concern. And whats hypocritical about your ‘beancounter’ fear is they are making the decisions now. But again, you painted yourself into a corner so you spare no effort or delusion to twist and contort your way out.

What's funny is watching liberals cover their ignorance with feigned (and unwarranted) condescension. The "death panels", as they are called, exist in the form of resource management boards. And they exist in every socialized medicine scheme on earth.

Oh now I have to get specifics on an amendment that made it into the final version. Oh silly, see how you have to move the goal posts. If republicans had 161 amendments pass the committee, then republicans weren’t “locked out of the debate”. Your hyperbole is DOA. Oh that’s right, you will spare no effort or delusion to twist and contort your way out of your own rhetoric. read this slowly. republicans had no intention of working with dems. You simply cant explain how republicans were for the mandate until President Obama adopted it. (one of the many republican ideas in Obamacare).

If you're going to make a claim, yes, you do need specifics. Try to get something more specific than where the punctuation lies in a sentence.

a classic conservative dodge. when their rhetoric is exposed cons always scurry to the comfort of their silly narratives. Mac, those are just more lying narratives from the same liars who told you “obama wants to kill old people”.

Dodge? No dodge, my blindly biased friend. Obamacare is hurting people. Right now. As we speak. Now, excuse your way outta that, my misguided lil' friend.

 

[Vern]

What's funny is watching liberals cover their ignorance with feigned (and unwarranted) condescension. The "death panels", as they are called, exist in the form of resource management boards. And they exist in every socialized medicine scheme on earth.

no silly, Sarah was specific. You're just trying to rationalize the lies. You can post a thousand rationalizations and a thousand denials but you cant change the facts. This is what she said.

"Seniors and the disabled "will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."

and cons scurried to every board to gleefully repeat the narrative. no questions asked. No facts considered. The new and improved lie from pubs is about euthanasia.

If you're going to make a claim, yes, you do need specifics. Try to get something more specific than where the punctuation lies in a sentence.

no silly, you made the claim. And all you've is whine at the specifics I've posted. Your silly factless baseless claim was "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed."

I disproved that silly silly delusion by proving that republicans added 161 amendments. You did the usual con dodge and said "wah wah I don't have to believe salon". I then showed the republican Alaskan senator bragging that she had 20 amendments approved. Then you did the next thing on the con checklist, you moved the goal posts. But you moved them too late, I already proved that pubs were not locked out of any discussion. Lets review

You made the false claim that "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed."
You then tried to spin and whine away the facts that showed your claim was false.
You then moved the goal posts
You then said "If you're going to make a claim, yes, you do need specifics"

and don't forget, you also said "I don't remember anyone claiming Obama wants to kill old people...not even the extremists. ." (my personal favorite)

Dodge? No dodge, my blindly biased friend. Obamacare is hurting people. Right now. As we speak. Now, excuse your way outta that, my misguided lil' friend.

really? its hurting people? remember you said "If you're going to make a claim, yes, you do need specifics". so be specific. Try to use actual facts.

 

[mac]

no silly, Sarah was specific. You're just trying to rationalize the lies. You can post a thousand rationalizations and a thousand denials but you cant change the facts. This is what she said.

"Seniors and the disabled "will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care."

and cons scurried to every board to gleefully repeat the narrative. no questions asked. No facts considered. The new and improved lie from pubs is about euthanasia.



no silly, you made the claim. And all you've is whine at the specifics I've posted. Your silly factless baseless claim was "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed."

I disproved that silly silly delusion by proving that republicans added 161 amendments. You did the usual con dodge and said "wah wah I don't have to believe salon". I then showed the republican Alaskan senator bragging that she had 20 amendments approved. Then you did the next thing on the con checklist, you moved the goal posts. But you moved them too late, I already proved that pubs were not locked out of any discussion. Lets review

You made the false claim that "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed."
You then tried to spin and whine away the facts that showed your claim was false.
You then moved the goal posts
You then said "If you're going to make a claim, yes, you do need specifics"

and don't forget, you also said "I don't remember anyone claiming Obama wants to kill old people...not even the extremists. ." (my personal favorite)




really? its hurting people? remember you said "If you're going to make a claim, yes, you do need specifics". so be specific. Try to use actual facts.

UPS to end health insurance for working spouses - Washington Post
Local governments cutting hours over Obamacare costs
Forever 21 reducing work hours due to ObamaCare - Atlanta Business Chronicle
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...ours-avoid-obamacare-report-article-1.1333305

Now, how about you back your claim? Name a republican authored amendment to Obamacare.

 

[Vern]

Now, how about you back your claim? Name a republican authored amendment to Obamacare.

oh that's sad. I posted the articles ( yes, plural) that showed republicans got 161 amendments added to Obamacare. That backed up my claim that republicans got 161 amendments added to Obamacare. And that disproves your silly "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed." narrative. You demanding more information is just another example of you not really caring about the facts. Anyhoo, you posted 4 links but not one of them backed up your silly claim that ""The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed." or your new silly narrative that "Obamacare is hurting people. Right now. As we speak".

As far as UPS is concerned I applaud any effort to reduce waste (do you even know what that article was about?). when a company wants to reduce hours so as to not pay for HC, do you think that means those employees were getting HC in the first place? you probably do. It seems to be your SOP. Were the employees at Forever 21 getting HC in the first place? Seriously mac, what company pays minimum wage part time employees HC and of those companies, who are stopping HC because of Obamacare? (these are specifics you need to make a point). see how easily you want to believe what you post. You also ignore that millions more people (yes millions) will benefit from Obamacare. But alas, you're good at ignoring things. Now will you be backing up "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed." anytime soon.

 

[mac]

oh that's sad. I posted the articles ( yes, plural) that showed republicans got 161 amendments added to Obamacare. That backed up my claim that republicans got 161 amendments added to Obamacare. And that disproves your silly "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed." narrative. You demanding more information is just another example of you not really caring about the facts. Anyhoo, you posted 4 links but not one of them backed up your silly claim that ""The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed." or your new silly narrative that "Obamacare is hurting people. Right now. As we speak".

No, you posted an article about a Democrat saying there was. So, if there is....illustrate it. What are the Republican amendments?

As far as UPS is concerned I applaud any effort to reduce waste (do you even know what that article was about?). when a company wants to reduce hours so as to not pay for HC, do you think that means those employees were getting HC in the first place?

Probably not, but now they're getting smaller paychecks. Yay Obamacare.

you probably do. It seems to be your SOP.

Personal attack, very enlightened.

Were the employees at Forever 21 getting HC in the first place? Seriously mac, what company pays minimum wage part time employees HC and of those companies, who are stopping HC because of Obamacare? (these are specifics you need to make a point). see how easily you want to believe what you post. You also ignore that millions more people (yes millions) will benefit from Obamacare. But alas, you're good at ignoring things. Now will you be backing up "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed." anytime soon.

In your zeal to worship Obama, you are missing the point. In addition to not getting healthcare, they're getting smaller paychecks. You don't have to be an economist to see how that hurts people. Hell, even local governments are cutting hours.

I imagine you'll need help, though.

 

[Vern]

No, you posted an article about a Democrat saying there was.

Wow, you really are desperate to cling to your narrative. I posted an article detailing the 161 republican amendments to Obamacare. You whined at the article with the typical con dodge of “liberal media”. I then posted another link with a quote of a republican senator bragging she had 20 amendments added to Obamacare. Here’s the quote you are either pretending to ignore or are pretending a democrat said.

And Senator Lisa Murkowsi, Republican of Alaska, said that, while it was “pretty impressive” that 20 of her amendments got accepted, “they were all technical.

That quote alone disproves your false narrative of “The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion”. Stop. You narrative has been proven false. But yet you cling to it. So the only thing you’ve proven is you are not interested in an honest and intelligent debate. Obviously you feel your emotional attachment to your narrative is more important than the facts. I see it from cons all the time.

Personal attack, very enlightened. .

no, its not a personal attack. Just stating the obvious. see above.

 

[mac]

Wow, you really are desperate to cling to your narrative. I posted an article detailing the 161 republican amendments to Obamacare. You whined at the article with the typical con dodge of “liberal media”. I then posted another link with a quote of a republican senator bragging she had 20 amendments added to Obamacare. Here’s the quote you are either pretending to ignore or are pretending a democrat said.

That quote alone disproves your false narrative of “The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion”. Stop. You narrative has been proven false. But yet you cling to it. So the only thing you’ve proven is you are not interested in an honest and intelligent debate. Obviously you feel your emotional attachment to your narrative is more important than the facts. I see it from cons all the time.

Name one, then. :shrug:

no, its not a personal attack. Just stating the obvious. see above.

Yeah, it is, and so was this.

Guess you want to avoid all the harm Obamacare is doing to working class families, huh?

 

[Vern]

Name one, then.

read this slowly mac. If I name one, you'll then create another string of words to ignore the facts or just pretend the conversation never happened. When I met your silly criteria for the lying republican narrative that " Obama wants to kill old people" you just moved on as if you never said anything.

Plus 'naming one' isn't necessary, your silly rhetoric was “republicans were locked out of the debate”. the senate approving 161 republican amendments proves that is a lie. I'm sure at first you believed you believed your silly narrative but now you now it's a lie. So when you move the goal posts to me having to detail what parts of Obamacare came from republican amendments, you're no longer ignorant of the facts, you're just stalling and deflecting. don't feel bad, all cons do it when confronted with reality. But it does prove you are not trying to have an intelligent and honest conversation.

Guess you want to avoid all the harm Obamacare is doing to working class families, huh?

see how you do that. You pretend that families are dependent on the bread winner working part time at Forever 21 so you can whine that families are being hurt. It just comes so effortlessly to you now. But mac, how do ignore the fact families who've been denied insurance are now able to buy it. And soon it will be not only be cheaper but affordable. That helps families. Oh, are you still pretending that Forever 21 had health care benefits for part time workers? Maybe the bread winner should quit Forever 21 and find a part time job that has benefits.

now when you are ready to have an intelligent and honest conversation, feel free to respond. If you are simply trying not to admit you posted false narratives, go bother somebody else.

 

[mac]

read this slowly mac. If I name one, you'll then create another string of words to ignore the facts or just pretend the conversation never happened. When I met your silly criteria for the lying republican narrative that " Obama wants to kill old people" you just moved on as if you never said anything.

Plus 'naming one' isn't necessary, your silly rhetoric was “republicans were locked out of the debate”. the senate approving 161 republican amendments proves that is a lie. I'm sure at first you believed you believed your silly narrative but now you now it's a lie. So when you move the goal posts to me having to detail what parts of Obamacare came from republican amendments, you're no longer ignorant of the facts, you're just stalling and deflecting. don't feel bad, all cons do it when confronted with reality. But it does prove you are not trying to have an intelligent and honest conversation.

Can't do it, can you? Come on, you can admit it. By the way, here's another example of how inclusive the Democrat majority was in the passing of this bill:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/34692080/ns/health-health_care/t/dems-bypass-tradition-final-health-deal/#.Uhy60husj2w

see how you do that. You pretend that families are dependent on the bread winner working part time at Forever 21 so you can whine that families are being hurt. It just comes so effortlessly to you now. But mac, how do ignore the fact families who've been denied insurance are now able to buy it. And soon it will be not only be cheaper but affordable. That helps families. Oh, are you still pretending that Forever 21 had health care benefits for part time workers? Maybe the bread winner should quit Forever 21 and find a part time job that has benefits.

now when you are ready to have an intelligent and honest conversation, feel free to respond. If you are simply trying not to admit you posted false narratives, go bother somebody else.

Really? In the families affected by hours getting cut back...by either member...it's pretty damn likely that the other one is also not getting health benifits. And, even if they could...if one of them is working this kind of job...they really need the money. And now, they're not getting it....thanks to Obamacare. But hey, there's always welfare, right?

 

[Vern]

Can't do it, can you? Come on, you can admit it.

first off I clearly said if you're simply trying not to admit you posted false narratives, go bother somebody else. anyhoo, I can. Its not easy to find the specific wording of republican amendments and then find it in the final bill but I did it. I just enjoy watching you wail and flail at the facts. And the facts are you said "Preposterous. The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed". the fact that committees voted on and approved 161 republican amendments prove that's a lie. So I don't have to post "one amendment in the final bill" . And now that you know its a lie, it means you are not concerned with having an intelligent and honest conversation.

By the way, here's another example of how inclusive the Democrat majority was in the passing of this bill:

"wah wah dems didn't let pubs kill obamacare wah wah" . you are an excellent whiner mac. hey do you remember pubs whining " wah wah Obama wants to kill old people or "wah wah Obamacare is unconstitutional ". anyhoo, since pubs showed they like you were not interested in having an intelligent or honest debate about Obamacare, dems did what they did. Serious question mac, if Obamacare is so bad how come pubs have to lie about it?

Really? In the families affected by hours getting cut back...by either member...it's pretty damn likely that the other one is also not getting health benifits. And, even if they could...if one of them is working this kind of job...they really need the money. And now, they're not getting it....thanks to Obamacare. But hey, there's always welfare, right?

your newfound concern for the families is admirable. But what does that have to do with teenagers at Forever 21 getting their hours cut from 31 to 29 have to do with your newfound concern? And what about the families who were not even allowed to buy coverage but now can? and what about the 30 million people who will be able to get and afford HC? Not that I take your concern for teenagers at Forever 21 lightly, I just think its just another convenient narrative for you to cling to. At least its not a lying narrative like your others. just silly and ignorant. How funny is that, silly and ignorant is an improvement for you?

 

[Kal'Stang]

It is not illegal to be uninsured.

Yes it is. That is why you are fined when you don't have it.

 

[mac]

first off I clearly said if you're simply trying not to admit you posted false narratives, go bother somebody else. anyhoo, I can. Its not easy to find the specific wording of republican amendments and then find it in the final bill but I did it. I just enjoy watching you wail and flail at the facts. And the facts are you said "Preposterous. The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed". the fact that committees voted on and approved 161 republican amendments prove that's a lie. So I don't have to post "one amendment in the final bill" . And now that you know its a lie, it means you are not concerned with having an intelligent and honest conversation.

Yep, I knew it. You have no idea what you're talking about or what's in the bill.

"wah wah dems didn't let pubs kill obamacare wah wah" . you are an excellent whiner mac. hey do you remember pubs whining " wah wah Obama wants to kill old people or "wah wah Obamacare is unconstitutional ". anyhoo, since pubs showed they like you were not interested in having an intelligent or honest debate about Obamacare, dems did what they did. Serious question mac, if Obamacare is so bad how come pubs have to lie about it?

I remember Allen Grayson saying "Republicans want you to die quickly!" Does that count?

your newfound concern for the families is admirable. But what does that have to do with teenagers at Forever 21 getting their hours cut from 31 to 29 have to do with your newfound concern? And what about the families who were not even allowed to buy coverage but now can? and what about the 30 million people who will be able to get and afford HC? Not that I take your concern for teenagers at Forever 21 lightly, I just think its just another convenient narrative for you to cling to. At least its not a lying narrative like your others. just silly and ignorant. How funny is that, silly and ignorant is an improvement for you?

Newfound? You hardly know me well enough to say something that stupid. Do you think it's just teenagers working at Forever 21? UPS? Scores of local govts? Really, your attempt to downplay the impact on the working class is pretty pathetic. You may think that healthcare is all that matters, but eating is generally thought of as important too. Who knew?

 

[Vern]

Yep, I knew it. You have no idea what you're talking about or what's in the bill.

"wah wah tell me what I want to hear" got it mac. anyhoo, I've disproven your "preposterous" and false claim that "dems locked republicans out of the debate". You continued insistence that I meet your ever changing standards just proves you are not interested in an honest and intelligent discussion. don't feel bad, honesty and intelligence don't help the conservative cause.

I remember Allen Grayson saying "Republicans want you to die quickly!" Does that count?

mmm, it seems your lack of integrity is showing again. How come you don't remember any quotes about death panels and euthanasia?

Newfound? You hardly know me well enough to say something that stupid. Do you think it's just teenagers working at Forever 21? UPS? Scores of local govts? Really, your attempt to downplay the impact on the working class is pretty pathetic. You may think that healthcare is all that matters, but eating is generally thought of as important too. Who knew?

mmm, why are you trying to lump UPS in with Forever 21? nobody is losing HC at UPS or getting their hours cut. You think 'adding to the list' makes it more credible but it really proves you have no credibility. explain what you think the link said about UPS. try for once to be clear and specific. as far as the anecdotal stories about local govts, these people don't have HC now. And the NJ town saying 25 part timers would cost 775,000 is as laughable and fantastical as anything you post. I don't believe it would cost 31,000 per employee. And again, they're part timers. How many hours are they losing. 1? 2? 3? see how your agenda needs a lack of specifics and 'fantastical' facts.

so when are you going to show some integrity and admit "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed" is a lie?

 

[mac]

"wah wah tell me what I want to hear" got it mac. anyhoo, I've disproven your "preposterous" and false claim that "dems locked republicans out of the debate". You continued insistence that I meet your ever changing standards just proves you are not interested in an honest and intelligent discussion. don't feel bad, honesty and intelligence don't help the conservative cause.

Yep. Clue-less.

mmm, it seems your lack of integrity is showing again. How come you don't remember any quotes about death panels and euthanasia?

When did I say I didn't remember the subject? In fact I explained it. What I disagree with is your partisan revisionism of what actually happened.

mmm, why are you trying to lump UPS in with Forever 21? nobody is losing HC at UPS or getting their hours cut. You think 'adding to the list' makes it more credible but it really proves you have no credibility. explain what you think the link said about UPS. try for once to be clear and specific. as far as the anecdotal stories about local govts, these people don't have HC now. And the NJ town saying 25 part timers would cost 775,000 is as laughable and fantastical as anything you post. I don't believe it would cost 31,000 per employee. And again, they're part timers. How many hours are they losing. 1? 2? 3? see how your agenda needs a lack of specifics and 'fantastical' facts.

so when are you going to show some integrity and admit "The Dems locked the GOP out of all discussion until the bill was passed" is a lie?

Actually, UPS is cutting healthcare coverage to some dependents as a direct result of Obamacare. Specific enough? Further, tons of employers are cutting back hours....which is a direct impact on income. Less income for the working class is generally not considered a benefit.

Dems to bypass tradition on final health deal - Health - Health care | NBC News

 

[Vern]

Yep. Clue-less.

oh mac, I don’t really care that you insult me. But I do find it funny that you whine about perceived insults from me but think nothing of posting them. mmmmm, there’s a word for that mmmmm, conservative? close but there’s a better word. republican? better but still not there, mmmm. I know “hypocrite”. yep, that’s the word.

When did I say I didn't remember the subject? In fact I explained it. What I disagree with is your partisan revisionism of what actually happened.

that’s hysterical, “partisan revisionism”. Read this slowly, the quote from Palin about death panels was “people would have to prove their worth to society before Obama’s bureaucrats would approve medical treatment”. Your attempt at delusional partisan revisionism is funny enough all by itself but to call simply quoting palin “partisan revisionism” is beyond hypocritical but not surprising. You’ve proven repeatedly that you are not concerned with an honest and intelligent conversation. and don’t forget the republican lies about euthanasia. too late, you already did.

Actually, UPS is cutting healthcare coverage to some dependents as a direct result of Obamacare. Specific enough? Further, tons of employers are cutting back hours....which is a direct impact on income. Less income for the working class is generally not considered a benefit.

Can you at least admit that nobody is losing coverage because of UPS? probably not, you’ve repeatedly proven you’re not interested in an honest and intelligent discussion.

“The company told white-collar workers two months ago that 15,000 working spouses eligible for coverage at their own employers would be excluded from the UPS plan in 2014.”
UPS won't insure spouses of many employees


who knows what you read but you’ve demonstrated you wont see the facts(see Palin’s lies about death panels above). The CBO estimated the costs to large employers who already provide HC would be negligible. Actually thanks to Obamacare, UPS will save 60 million a year.

And of course, your only concern for families is only about part time workers losing 2 to 3 hours a week. what about the families of the 45,000 people a year who die from lack of health care? that hurts families too doesn’t it? Oh that’s right, you are only concerned with the teenagers who work at Forever 21.

 

[mac]

oh mac, I don’t really care that you insult me. But I do find it funny that you whine about perceived insults from me but think nothing of posting them. mmmmm, there’s a word for that mmmmm, conservative? close but there’s a better word. republican? better but still not there, mmmm. I know “hypocrite”. yep, that’s the word.

So, you admit you have no idea what's in the bill and who wrote what?

that’s hysterical, “partisan revisionism”. Read this slowly, the quote from Palin about death panels was “people would have to prove their worth to society before Obama’s bureaucrats would approve medical treatment”. Your attempt at delusional partisan revisionism is funny enough all by itself but to call simply quoting palin “partisan revisionism” is beyond hypocritical but not surprising. You’ve proven repeatedly that you are not concerned with an honest and intelligent conversation. and don’t forget the republican lies about euthanasia. too late, you already did.

This tangent is really pretty pointless, despite all your partisan hype. The end result is that Obamacare is hurting people.

Can you at least admit that nobody is losing coverage because of UPS? probably not, you’ve repeatedly proven you’re not interested in an honest and intelligent discussion.

“The company told white-collar workers two months ago that 15,000 working spouses eligible for coverage at their own employers would be excluded from the UPS plan in 2014.”
UPS won't insure spouses of many employees

So, let's do a little math....what costs more? One insurance plan per family, or two?

who knows what you read but you’ve demonstrated you wont see the facts(see Palin’s lies about death panels above). The CBO estimated the costs to large employers who already provide HC would be negligible. Actually thanks to Obamacare, UPS will save 60 million a year.

Is $100m negligable?

And of course, your only concern for families is only about part time workers losing 2 to 3 hours a week. what about the families of the 45,000 people a year who die from lack of health care? that hurts families too doesn’t it? Oh that’s right, you are only concerned with the teenagers who work at Forever 21.

85% of America was allready covered, of the 15% that weren't, about 4% chose not to be. Of that 15% less than half will get covered under Obamacare. So, effectively...100% of America get's screwed to cover 7%. Sounds fair.

Do you really beleive it is only teenagers working part time jobs? Do you really?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/08/the-rise-of-part-time-work/?_r=0

Seriously, do you live under a rock?

 

[Vern]

So, you admit you have no idea what's in the bill and who wrote what?

By far your most dishonest post yet. It just gets easier and easier for you doesn't it.

This tangent is really pretty pointless, despite all your partisan hype. The end result is that Obamacare is hurting people.

too funny. You cant argue the facts so you claim its a tangent. But the fact is your statement that you never heard the lying republican narrative of
"Obama wants to kill old people" with your delusional rationalization of Palin's "death panel" lie and the republican parties "euthanasia" lie just shows you and republicans cant have an honest and intelligent conversation about HC.

So, let's do a little math....what costs more? One insurance plan per family, or two?

depends, some companies charge more for spouses. You'd have to compare the spouse cost vs the single person HC cost.

Is $100m negligable?

UPS says it will save 60 million.

Do you really beleive it is only teenagers working part time jobs? Do you really?

this is why you shouldn't be dishonest on purpose (see your first statement above). Its hard to tell if your being dishonest or just dumb. Every statement I've made is about Forever 21 because its the company in the article you posted. Oh it quoted 2 small govts but that added up to 50 people. And one of the govts lied about the cost so its really hard to put any stock into their statements. Again, your concern is for families that may get 3 hours less pay a week. oh the tragedy of it all. You don't seem concerned about the families of the 45,000 people who die every year due to lack of healthcare. Or the families who tried to buy insurance but were always turned down. yea, your concern seems a bit too convenient.

again, you have to overlook the massive benefits of Obamacare and post anecdotal and unbelievable rhetoric to respond.

 

[mac]

By far your most dishonest post yet. It just gets easier and easier for you doesn't it.

So, then...provide a Republican amendment to Obamacare...

too funny. You cant argue the facts so you claim its a tangent. But the fact is your statement that you never heard the lying republican narrative of
"Obama wants to kill old people" with your delusional rationalization of Palin's "death panel" lie and the republican parties "euthanasia" lie just shows you and republicans cant have an honest and intelligent conversation about HC.

Your talking about rhetoric...who cares one way or the other? You certainly can't claim anyone side is any worse on the hyperbole.

depends, some companies charge more for spouses. You'd have to compare the spouse cost vs the single person HC cost.

weak.

UPS says it will save 60 million.

By cutting coverage, Delta says it woll cost them $100m to implement Obamacare.

this is why you shouldn't be dishonest on purpose (see your first statement above). Its hard to tell if your being dishonest or just dumb. Every statement I've made is about Forever 21 because its the company in the article you posted. Oh it quoted 2 small govts but that added up to 50 people. And one of the govts lied about the cost so its really hard to put any stock into their statements. Again, your concern is for families that may get 3 hours less pay a week. oh the tragedy of it all. You don't seem concerned about the families of the 45,000 people who die every year due to lack of healthcare. Or the families who tried to buy insurance but were always turned down. yea, your concern seems a bit too convenient.

Your elitist concern is showing. For a person making just over minimum wage....3 hours is a big damn deal. Surely you aren't so disconnected from the working class...or too dumb...to understand that. Forever 21 is just one of the many companies that have reported cutting back, and it's not just teenagers.

I see you completely glossed over the real facts of Obamacare actually "achieves". Typical.

again, you have to overlook the massive benefits of Obamacare and post anecdotal and unbelievable rhetoric to respond.[/QUOTE]

 

[Vern]

So, then...provide a Republican amendment to Obamacare...

Please explain why that's so important. I posted the article about the 161 amendments republicans that added to and approved in the senate to disprove your silly republican narrative "dems locked republicans out of the debate". and guess what, the 161 amendments added to Obamacare proves republicans weren't "locked out of the debate". So I've proven your silly republican narrative is a lie. If you wont admit it now, why should I assume you'll admit after I post a republican amendment that made it into Obamacare.

Your talking about rhetoric...who cares one way or the other? You certainly can't claim anyone side is any worse on the hyperbole.

mmm, saying "Obama wants to kill old people" is pretty bad. and don't forget "born in Kenya", "birth certificate is fake". these examples are why republicans cowardly refused to work with the president: their ignorant base wouldn't let them.

By cutting coverage, Delta says it woll cost them $100m to implement Obamacare.

well that's what Delta says. It would be more believable if other companies made the same outlandish claims. But they didn't.

Your elitist concern is showing. For a person making just over minimum wage....3 hours is a big damn deal. Surely you aren't so disconnected from the working class...or too dumb...to understand that. Forever 21 is just one of the many companies that have reported cutting back, and it's not just teenagers.

elitist? besides the fact that you ignore the 45,000 people who die a year because they cant get HC or the people who couldn't buy HC even when they wanted to you also have to ignore that HC was 17% of GDP and rising. yea, its not just about helping people. Its also about not letting HC costs destroy the economy.

so if you are upset that companies threaten (yes, threaten) to cut hours to prevent having to pay HC, don't support those companies. Denny's and Papa Johns backed away from their stated desires to do so.

I see you completely glossed over the real facts of Obamacare actually "achieves". Typical.

wow, you really should look up the word hypocrite because you gloss over the steady stream of republican lies and republican amendments added to Obamacare. you gloss over the 45,000 people who die due to lack of HC. You gloss over the drag on the economy from HC.

 

[mac]

Please explain why that's so important. I posted the article about the 161 amendments republicans that added to and approved in the senate to disprove your silly republican narrative "dems locked republicans out of the debate". and guess what, the 161 amendments added to Obamacare proves republicans weren't "locked out of the debate". So I've proven your silly republican narrative is a lie. If you wont admit it now, why should I assume you'll admit after I post a republican amendment that made it into Obamacare.

So, why's it so hard for you to name one?

mm, saying "Obama wants to kill old people" is pretty bad. and don't forget "born in Kenya", "birth certificate is fake". these examples are why republicans cowardly refused to work with the president: their ignorant base wouldn't let them.

It's no worse than saying "Republicans want you to die quickly." and a whole host of other things. It's hyperbole and political rhetoric. Who cares?

well that's what Delta says. It would be more believable if other companies made the same outlandish claims. But they didn't.

Ya know, it's funny. Everything that doesn't fit your agenda is an outlandish claim. Coincidence?

elitist? besides the fact that you ignore the 45,000 people who die a year because they cant get HC or the people who couldn't buy HC even when they wanted to you also have to ignore that HC was 17% of GDP and rising. yea, its not just about helping people. Its also about not letting HC costs destroy the economy.

Actually, they die because they got sick. Healthcare doesn't kill people. You don't really understand what GDP is, do you?

so if you are upset that companies threaten (yes, threaten) to cut hours to prevent having to pay HC, don't support those companies. Denny's and Papa Johns backed away from their stated desires to do so.

Oh, how chic.

wow, you really should look up the word hypocrite because you gloss over the steady stream of republican lies and republican amendments added to Obamacare. you gloss over the 45,000 people who die due to lack of HC. You gloss over the drag on the economy from HC.

Because you don't like it, doesn't make it a lie. There will be resource allocation boards/panels/committees....no matter what you want to call them. Care to show a source for your 45k claim? I kinda doubt you will, but had to ask.

 

[Vern]

hey mac, I know how you cons like youtube. Here's a great one. Republicans don't want their amendments accepted. Even republican Enzi laughs at the stupidity of it.

Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill

Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill - YouTube

I guess dems didn't change the locks like you said (I thought you were joking when you said that but now I have to wonder). so not only were they not "locked out of the debate" they showed a complete lack of integrity by submitting amendments and then not wanting them to be accepted. mmmm, that lack of integrity reminds me of somebody, mmmm.