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Simple way to fix marriage

It's already been pointed out in this forum that men have become more reluctant to marry, and that's in large part due to the biases currently in family law. (Source)

So here's the fix: don't allow any court to void or override a prenuptial agreement that defines how to divide property or child custody. Period. If a child is being mistreated, that has to be considered as a separate case, not as part of a divorce settlement.

Assuming that two individuals are responsible enough to get married at all, they certainly should be responsible enough to honor a contract that both agreed to. And if both partners decide to change it or void it later, it should be their decision, and not the government's.

I don't believe that the legal issues are the problem with marriage- at all- at least the vast majority of the time.

To fix marriages, you have to fix people, and those people have to know how to keep a marriage functional and healthy. It isn't at all easy. It should be cared for and guarded more than any other relationship, but some don't have the will, and others don't know how.
 
You think that's funny - read my posts 23 and 24. You'll either barf at the sticky-sweet crap...or you'll shed a tear or two and wish you had that, too.
No barfing here, Glen. They're great posts.

You're the luckiest man on earth.
 
Thank you - and yes, I certainly am the luckiest (most blessed) man on earth. I just wish everyone else had what I've got - the world would be a much happier place -
But we'd have to have the occasional war too, right? That's only fair.
 
But we'd have to have the occasional war too, right? That's only fair.

Well, yeah.... And just because there's a war doesn't automatically mean that either side is wrong. I learned a long time ago that most people really do try to do what they believe is the right thing to do, and that most conflicts arise when the "right things to do" of two different persons (or nations) conflict with each other. This doesn't excuse Hitler, of course...but WWI would be a different story - it wasn't nearly as clean-cut in its causes as was WWII.
 
Well, yeah.... And just because there's a war doesn't automatically mean that either side is wrong. I learned a long time ago that most people really do try to do what they believe is the right thing to do, and that most conflicts arise when the "right things to do" of two different persons (or nations) conflict with each other. This doesn't excuse Hitler, of course...but WWI would be a different story - it wasn't nearly as clean-cut in its causes as was WWII.
Well, that's one way of looking at it. lulz Of course, Hitler probably did think he was doing the right thing. Or leastways, he managed to convince himself of as much. That's a hell of a weight to carry around in the knowledge that you're the bad guy.
 
It's already been pointed out in this forum that men have become more reluctant to marry, and that's in large part due to the biases currently in family law. (Source)

So here's the fix: don't allow any court to void or override a prenuptial agreement that defines how to divide property or child custody. Period. If a child is being mistreated, that has to be considered as a separate case, not as part of a divorce settlement.

Assuming that two individuals are responsible enough to get married at all, they certainly should be responsible enough to honor a contract that both agreed to. And if both partners decide to change it or void it later, it should be their decision, and not the government's.

I personally believe that the only way you will get men to want to marry again is to get rid of no fault divorces, or we need to get rid of this idea that property must be divided after a divorce. We should also do away with alimony. There should also be programs that help men who can't afford to pay child support, just like there are programs to help single mothers who can't afford to care for their kids. It seems odd to me that if a woman is unable to financially take care of her children, she has a litany of government programs at her fingertips that will aid her where as if a man is unable to pay child support, he goes to prison. We also need to fix the court system which feeds into the very lucrative business of divorce. I think the divorce process, if we want to keep it, must be made much cheaper and not require a high priced lawyer in order for you to not get screwed in court. Marriage has simply become to dangerous of a financial gamble for men. If a marriage does not work out, it seems a disproportionate amount of punishment for that failed marriage falls on the man. Most men know this and that is why they are either not getting married, or they stay in a bad marriage longer then they should. More then 70% of all divorces are initiated by women because there are few, if any, reprecussions for women after divorce. You could say that men are just such bad humans that women want to leave them more then men want to leave women, but I think that's false. I think just as many men as woman want to get out of a bad marriage, they just understand the penalties they will incur by getting divorced. So they end up staying in a marriage even if they are not satisfied with it any longer, where as women have little to no problem with getting out of a marriage if they are not satisfied. They have complete support after divorce from the government. Men have little to no support after a failed marriage. That is why men who divorce are 4 times more likely to commit suicide then women. There are a lot of articles online that lay out well reasoned points as to what is causing men to not want to get married. It will only change when women are held equally at fault for a failed marriage.
 
If a marriage requires legal haggling beforehand, then the marriage is a failure waiting to happen.

My wife and I have been married 22 years, and we're very happy - we still act like newlyweds. We have never argued about money - not even once, no matter how tight the money was. Every couple who knows us is jealous of our relationship, and the best wish we can give others is that they will have as happy a marriage as we do.

I tell every new couple that there's two rules for a happy marriage:

(1) The husband must never, ever stop courting the wife. That's one of the biggest mistakes a husband ever makes - he thinks he's married now so he doesn't have to keep courting her. But it is CRUCIAL to every marriage that the husband continues to court her, in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health, even when they are as old as the hills.

(2) The wife must never, ever allow her husband to stop courting her. She must use every weapon in her arsenal (including guilt trips) to get him to always court her.

Do these two things, and you will have a happy marriage. Not only that, but because of the continual courting, there's far less chance that either one will cheat on the other.

Sounds like prison to me. So the man must continually put his wife on a pedestal, and the woman's duty, which is soooooooo difficult, is to accept that position on the pedestal... Give me a break. But hey, if it works for you great! I just don't feel I should have to give without any expectation that it will be returned.

I have been married 5 years now to a woman from the Philippines. Men and women treat each other quite a bit differently there. There are expectations a man has, and expectation a woman has in a marriage there. There not expected by law, but by society as a whole. They take a much more traditional approach which is a lot more family oriented as well.

What has made our marriage so rewarding is that we have roles that don't overlap. So we don't have any arguments about who is going to do what, it just works itself out because we both bring opposite things to the relationship.

I am the breadwinner. I work long hard hours and bring home the bacon. I also am responsible for running the finances. My wife is responsible for caring for the things that I provide for us. I buy the house, she cleans the house. I buy the car, she cleans the car. I but the food, she cooks the food. The work I do pays for the things we own, while the work she does cares for the things we own. It evens out because I spend 40 hours a week providing us with the things we need, and she works 40 hours a week taking care of the things we need.

These are things you just dont find today in America. Women today dont want to have established roles. And my example of the roles above do not have to be gender specific roles. They could be reversed as well. If my wife had a job that paid more then the job I have and could provide us both with a good life, I would be more then happy to take the role of cooking, cleaning and taking care of things on the home front. That is where the genders are having such a hard time in the west. It's because roles are becomming ambiguous so that both sexes are responsible for everything which leads to disagreement over how things are to be done. Some couples I know spend more time arguing about how to do this or that, then actually doing it simply because they both have differing ideas on how to handle things. When both people have defined and agreed upon roles, it cuts down on disagreements. Just my 2 cents.
 
I don't agree that men are less likely to marry because of marriage law biases.


It's because women's sexual liberation through technology has made it possible for men to play the sexual field much longer in their lives, especially among what would traditionally be viewed as "Alpha Males" in terms of looks. This has directly led to a cultural and societal phenomena of women actually having a harder time "Pinning a Man Down" in a marriage, even good looking women are having this problem.


Sexual liberation for women has also meant even greater sexual liberation for men. This is commonly misunderstood in feminist circles.



People often forget the basic truth of:

Whatever is good for alpha women is even better for alpha men

It goes along the same logic and truth of "The Rich get Richer and the poor get poorer"
 
Sounds like prison to me. So the man must continually put his wife on a pedestal, and the woman's duty, which is soooooooo difficult, is to accept that position on the pedestal... Give me a break. But hey, if it works for you great! I just don't feel I should have to give without any expectation that it will be returned.

I have been married 5 years now to a woman from the Philippines. Men and women treat each other quite a bit differently there. There are expectations a man has, and expectation a woman has in a marriage there. There not expected by law, but by society as a whole. They take a much more traditional approach which is a lot more family oriented as well.

What has made our marriage so rewarding is that we have roles that don't overlap. So we don't have any arguments about who is going to do what, it just works itself out because we both bring opposite things to the relationship.

I am the breadwinner. I work long hard hours and bring home the bacon. I also am responsible for running the finances. My wife is responsible for caring for the things that I provide for us. I buy the house, she cleans the house. I buy the car, she cleans the car. I but the food, she cooks the food. The work I do pays for the things we own, while the work she does cares for the things we own. It evens out because I spend 40 hours a week providing us with the things we need, and she works 40 hours a week taking care of the things we need.

These are things you just dont find today in America. Women today dont want to have established roles. And my example of the roles above do not have to be gender specific roles. They could be reversed as well. If my wife had a job that paid more then the job I have and could provide us both with a good life, I would be more then happy to take the role of cooking, cleaning and taking care of things on the home front. That is where the genders are having such a hard time in the west. It's because roles are becomming ambiguous so that both sexes are responsible for everything which leads to disagreement over how things are to be done. Some couples I know spend more time arguing about how to do this or that, then actually doing it simply because they both have differing ideas on how to handle things. When both people have defined and agreed upon roles, it cuts down on disagreements. Just my 2 cents.

*chuckle* My wife is also from the Philippines. We own a house in Quezon City. My oldest son graduated college there, and my youngest son graduated high school there. They had both started school here in the states, but I wanted them to learn that side of their heritage, and so they could grow closer to the family. She came here as an illegal immigrant in 1981, and became a citizen during the Reagan amnesty. She grew up knowing real poverty...and now she's doing very well indeed.

If you look around the Filipino community, yeah, the man's supposed to be the head of the household, but after a closer look you'll find that it's often the woman who's making the small businesses happen. Does this mean I'm not the head of the household? Of course not. She discusses all her decisions with me, and it's my decision. That way, I get all the credit (and all the blame). If she makes a decision when I'm not around, I take full responsibility for that, too - that's how much I trust her.

And who says that the man has to be the only breadwinner, or that the woman can't make decisions or buy property or have a business of her own? Read what it says in Proverbs 31:

10 A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.
12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.
13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
15 She gets up while it is still night;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her female servants.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

There's nothing at all wrong with a woman having a business, having employees, or buying property of her own. Let her do so! Show her you trust her, give her the support she needs to try...and if it doesn't work, catch her when she falls and encourage her to try again...and sooner or later, you watch her fly! You'll feel so proud, and she will be so grateful to you.
 
*chuckle* My wife is also from the Philippines. We own a house in Quezon City. My oldest son graduated college there, and my youngest son graduated high school there. They had both started school here in the states, but I wanted them to learn that side of their heritage, and so they could grow closer to the family. She came here as an illegal immigrant in 1981, and became a citizen during the Reagan amnesty. She grew up knowing real poverty...and now she's doing very well indeed.

If you look around the Filipino community, yeah, the man's supposed to be the head of the household, but after a closer look you'll find that it's often the woman who's making the small businesses happen. Does this mean I'm not the head of the household? Of course not. She discusses all her decisions with me, and it's my decision. That way, I get all the credit (and all the blame). If she makes a decision when I'm not around, I take full responsibility for that, too - that's how much I trust her.

And who says that the man has to be the only breadwinner, or that the woman can't make decisions or buy property or have a business of her own? Read what it says in Proverbs 31:

10 A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.
12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.
13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
15 She gets up while it is still night;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her female servants.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

There's nothing at all wrong with a woman having a business, having employees, or buying property of her own. Let her do so! Show her you trust her, give her the support she needs to try...and if it doesn't work, catch her when she falls and encourage her to try again...and sooner or later, you watch her fly! You'll feel so proud, and she will be so grateful to you.

I certainly don't believe a woman can not be the breadwinner. In fact, you are correct about filipina women. Many are actually the breadwinners in filipino society. Women in the philippines have kind of a unique position in society that you wont find in even some of the more progressive countries. I have been to South Korea and Japan and have found that women in the Philippines seem to actually be more liberated then women in their two supposibly more advanced neighbors. Filipina women are really the backbone of their families. While the man is, more often then not, the one "in charge" the woman has huge influence on her husbands decisions. One could argue that the man of the family is no more then a figurehead rather then the head of the family. After a lot of observation, I have concluded that the wife wields all the power in traditional filipino families with the man only really having veto power. The women seem to be making all the decisions behind the scenes and the man only says yes or no with the decision heavily influenced by his wife's power in the household. Be very careful if you marry a filipina to not piss her off or disrespect her. I have seen some very strong men reduced to little boys by their filipina wives if they are not happy. This whole idea that asian women, and filipina women specifically, are submissive is a giant steaming pile of bull. Any man wishing to find a submissive wife in the Philippines may think he has found one, that is, until he finds out he hasent.
 
Uh-uh. If a marriage needs a legal agreement in order to convince them to stay together, then that marriage is doomed. Once they are about to marry, if one or the other insists on a prenup of any type, then the love is not and cannot be true.

If the marriage is one of convenience, or if they only want to be partners, then sure - have a prenup. But if it's true love - and I promise you there really is such a thing - then the very idea of having a prenup is repugnant and unthinkable.

Plenty of true love marriages end in divorce. Here is the thing. People change. Our brains change. Our minds change. Our interests and passions change. If you are lucky, you and your spouse in ways that are compatible with each other. But sometimes people aren't lucky.
 
i.e. Basically the same damn thing happening in Japan at the moment, just not quite as extreme... For various social, cultural, and economic reasons.

In any eventuality, the above explains people like me well enough - people who would really like to marry, and fully plan on doing so at some point in the (hopefully near) future, but haven't been able to do so due to the effects of the economy.

It does not, however, account for the growing minority of culturally liberal Millennials out there who simply don't believe in marriage at all, and actively avoid it on a philosophical basis. They are the ones who are most problematic in this particular equation.

My advice....if you find the right person...don't miss the opportunity because of economics. Most of us with mature marriages did not have two nickels to rub together when we first got married..but we built our financial lives together. Find a nice girl with a good job...LOL and you will be surprised how much your life changes (financially) when you combine your incomes.
 
Sounds like prison to me. So the man must continually put his wife on a pedestal, and the woman's duty, which is soooooooo difficult, is to accept that position on the pedestal... Give me a break. But hey, if it works for you great! I just don't feel I should have to give without any expectation that it will be returned.

I have been married 5 years now to a woman from the Philippines. Men and women treat each other quite a bit differently there. There are expectations a man has, and expectation a woman has in a marriage there. There not expected by law, but by society as a whole. They take a much more traditional approach which is a lot more family oriented as well.

What has made our marriage so rewarding is that we have roles that don't overlap. So we don't have any arguments about who is going to do what, it just works itself out because we both bring opposite things to the relationship.

I am the breadwinner. I work long hard hours and bring home the bacon. I also am responsible for running the finances. My wife is responsible for caring for the things that I provide for us. I buy the house, she cleans the house. I buy the car, she cleans the car. I but the food, she cooks the food. The work I do pays for the things we own, while the work she does cares for the things we own. It evens out because I spend 40 hours a week providing us with the things we need, and she works 40 hours a week taking care of the things we need.

These are things you just dont find today in America. Women today dont want to have established roles. And my example of the roles above do not have to be gender specific roles. They could be reversed as well. If my wife had a job that paid more then the job I have and could provide us both with a good life, I would be more then happy to take the role of cooking, cleaning and taking care of things on the home front. That is where the genders are having such a hard time in the west. It's because roles are becomming ambiguous so that both sexes are responsible for everything which leads to disagreement over how things are to be done. Some couples I know spend more time arguing about how to do this or that, then actually doing it simply because they both have differing ideas on how to handle things. When both people have defined and agreed upon roles, it cuts down on disagreements. Just my 2 cents.

Defined roles are boring!! Plus they change over time. We both work and split the roles in half. I hire a lot of the house work done so we can enjoy our weekends without slaving in the yard or house...instead we play golf together. :peace I think the key to a long and healthy marriage is friendship. Friendship should be the start and the rest falls into place. Respect for each other and equality goes a long way too. Last but not least, don't sweat the small stuff. I see some married couples get into a ghastly fight over the stupidest things...every dawn brings a new day so start each day fresh and forget about yesterday. I have 23 years and each year is better than the last. As far as financial matters, it is a lot less stressful if one can support the other if the need arises. As the years go on, you will lose a job, or you will get sick and can't work...it is so much better if the other can pick up the slack and carry on until the situation changes again.
 
I certainly don't believe a woman can not be the breadwinner. In fact, you are correct about filipina women. Many are actually the breadwinners in filipino society. Women in the philippines have kind of a unique position in society that you wont find in even some of the more progressive countries. I have been to South Korea and Japan and have found that women in the Philippines seem to actually be more liberated then women in their two supposibly more advanced neighbors. Filipina women are really the backbone of their families. While the man is, more often then not, the one "in charge" the woman has huge influence on her husbands decisions. One could argue that the man of the family is no more then a figurehead rather then the head of the family. After a lot of observation, I have concluded that the wife wields all the power in traditional filipino families with the man only really having veto power. The women seem to be making all the decisions behind the scenes and the man only says yes or no with the decision heavily influenced by his wife's power in the household. Be very careful if you marry a filipina to not piss her off or disrespect her. I have seen some very strong men reduced to little boys by their filipina wives if they are not happy. This whole idea that asian women, and filipina women specifically, are submissive is a giant steaming pile of bull. Any man wishing to find a submissive wife in the Philippines may think he has found one, that is, until he finds out he hasent.

As much as I hate such simple memes, there's not much that's truer than "happy wife, happy life". Keep her happy and allow her to bloom, to fly, to be what she wants to be, and she'll make you the happiest guy on earth. But if she's miserable, she's gonna make doggone sure that you're miserable too.
 
Plenty of true love marriages end in divorce. Here is the thing. People change. Our brains change. Our minds change. Our interests and passions change. If you are lucky, you and your spouse in ways that are compatible with each other. But sometimes people aren't lucky.

Y'know, that's the answer of a cynic...but while cynicism is useful in many situations, I've found that there are times when it's good to not lose the wide-eyed naivete that we had as children. Why? Because if one is a suspicious person, it sorta turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy: if you've always got your eyes out for something that the other person is doing wrong, you're going to find it - we've all got feet of clay. However, if you're lucky enough to find someone who trusts you with that wide-eyed naivete, AND if you're courageous enough to trust her with that same wide-eyed naivete, the two of you might find yourselves running to the playground so you can go on the swing next to each other...with benefits of course.

I would say you can't have true love without that trust, the kind of trust one has as a child. When you both have that for each other, it's a beautiful thing.
 
Y'know, that's the answer of a cynic...but while cynicism is useful in many situations, I've found that there are times when it's good to not lose the wide-eyed naivete that we had as children. Why? Because if one is a suspicious person, it sorta turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy: if you've always got your eyes out for something that the other person is doing wrong, you're going to find it - we've all got feet of clay. However, if you're lucky enough to find someone who trusts you with that wide-eyed naivete, AND if you're courageous enough to trust her with that same wide-eyed naivete, the two of you might find yourselves running to the playground so you can go on the swing next to each other...with benefits of course.

I would say you can't have true love without that trust, the kind of trust one has as a child. When you both have that for each other, it's a beautiful thing.

I'd say it's far more realistic than cynical.
 
That fear you have shown no evidence is having any effect on marriage rate?

That doesn't even make any sense, Redress.

And how is showing why people are not marrying not relevant to why people are not getting married?

So how does a study of what people look for in a spouse demonstrate why they are not getting married? You keep trying to put two and two together and then contend the result is 17.
 
Quite apart from whatever causes marriage reluctance, the solutions of prenups to be kept out of the jurisdiction of courts is delusional.

Prenups are subservient to law and can and must be voided, partially or totally, if they are by content illegal.

Wow.

Um, shouldn't it be obvious that there would have to be a new law to the effect that "Prenup agreements supersede existing laws on division of property and custody?" :poke
 
That doesn't even make any sense, Redress.

Have you struggled with the English language long? Hint: read the post it is in response to.



So how does a study of what people look for in a spouse demonstrate why they are not getting married? You keep trying to put two and two together and then contend the result is 17.

Did not read the poll results did you? Might want to, since it is about far more than what people look for in a spouse. Hint: it looks at why people are not getting married.

And when you are done figuring out why I am right, then you might want to go, look at your initial premise, and offer some tiny little bit of evidence to actually support that premise, something you have singularly failed to do, despite your hypocritical crying that others are not offering evidence(when they are).
 
Wow.

Um, shouldn't it be obvious that there would have to be a new law to the effect that "Prenup agreements supersede existing laws on division of property and custody?" :poke
Yeah, like Chagos shooting whoever he likes is excluded from general jurisdiction. :mrgreen:
 
Then I feel for you. As I said, cynicism is a useful tool at times...but if one needs to be a cynic in a marriage, then one shouldn't have gotten married to begin with.

You seem to be missing BrewerBob's point (and mine): bad things happen to good people. Taking steps to minimize the impact of those bad things doesn't, by itself, make anyone a cynic.
 
Have you struggled with the English language long? Hint: read the post it is in response to.
Speaking of struggling with the English language, your "it" in the above sentence has no antecedent. You're on a roll for ambiguity in this thread.

Did not read the poll results did you? Might want to, since it is about far more than what people look for in a spouse. Hint: it looks at why people are not getting married.
You expect people to wade through five chapters to find the magic sentence that you claim refutes my argument (but won't quote here)? Forget it. I'm too busy, and no one else cares.

And when you are done figuring out why I am right, then you might want to go, look at your initial premise, and offer some tiny little bit of evidence to actually support that premise, something you have singularly failed to do, despite your hypocritical crying that others are not offering evidence(when they are).
I'd prefer some direct support of your being right. Then I would return with some counter evidence. However, I won't do that just because you demand it.
 
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