Sieg Heil! Donald, Mein Fuhrer

[Fishking]

In the beginning, Hitler wasn't as bad as Hitler would one day become.

That said, do we really need to elect a guy who wants everyone of a certain religion to register with the government, who wants to ban the people from the same religion from crossing our borders? Do we really need to go down this road?

False, Mein Kampf came out in 1925 and it made his positions pretty clear early on.

 

[Grim17]

I don't know for a fact that Trump is, in his heart, bigoted. But for certain he has taken a highly bigoted platform and directs it regularly toward bigots. So while he may simply be pretending to be a bigot (he is a serial liar after all), to suggest that his supporters likewise are pretending to be bigots wouldn't make much sense. And like I already said, I took note of the fact that you didn't include the part about internment camps. It would seem your method for defining bigotry is to take the things that Trump and his supporters have said, and simply remove them from any qualification for bigotry. In other words, if he or his supporters have voiced it, it is therefore not bigotry. Cute, but not relevant to defining the actual word.

Again, please show me the evidence that supports your claim that Trump supporters are bigots, and that he is playing to them.

You are obviously convinced of this, so let's see the evidence that led you to that belief.

 

[Fishking]

Sadly that is incorrect.

From Paxton:

Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a massed-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.​

"Hey you, Mr non-College White Guy whose salary has dropped in the last decade, and who has been effectively abandoned by both parties? You know how we're getting screwed - we're getting screwed by China, we're getting screwed by Mexico - America used to be Great, and now we get screwed, and we need to be Great Again. Your concerns about wage competition and losing jobs are being ignored by the Right when you aren't being called a racist and a gun/sky-god clinger by the Left. You need a third way. So check out this Strong Leader who is a Yuuge Winner, this guy who's totally dominating everyone. We're gonna wreck this crap system, get rid of all these illegals, we're gonna tamp down on the press, and then we're gonna win again. We're gonna make deals with the Establishment, but on our terms, because we're gonna be Winners. We're gonna win so much you'll get tired of winning. We're gonna get rid of all these illegals, we're going to get rid of all these loser idiots (or they'll do what we tell them to), and then we're gonna kick the crap out of Mexico, and China, and ISIS, and all those other tough guys out there because now we're Winners, and then we'll be Great Again because Winning."


That's about the Trumpism Spiel. Do you need me to color-code the relevant parts to point out where they mirror?

That sounds more like Bernie supporters, than Trump supporters, minus the nationalism part because they don't really like America. In fact, the victim mentality is one of the pillars of neo-liberalism. I mean, it isn't Trump supporters that feel victimized if a person from an opposing political view gets a chance to speak on a college campus and cause a riot. It isn't Trump supporters that run to safe zone because the victimization levels reached a degree so as to be intolerable and you get triggered.

 

[BitterPill]

View attachment 67201755

No, srsly, can we stop it with the Nazi **** for awhile. As bad as Trump is, he is not a ****ing nazi.

How do you know?

 

[Fishking]

No, he is not literally a Nazi. He has simply built his rise to power on his demagoguery against specific ethnicities and religions, which is one of the primary things Hitler is infamous for. This is not a "Hitler drank coffee, therefore you're like Hitler" type of situation here. The problem with the concept of calling "Godwin's Law" is that it automatically makes the assumption that no comparison to Nazis/Hitler can be valid. As the Hitler comparison is such low hanging fruit and requires no imagination, 99 out of a 100 times that will be true. However, this is that hundredth time. Trump's extreme nationalism and vilification of specific demographics is "Hitler" as all git out.

Could you be more specific as to what ethnicities you're talking about and what religions? Also demonstrate how it has happened in a vacuum, without any cause. Also demonstrate how it has literally happened on a greater scale than what Trump has done but somehow it's not the same a Hitler (e.g FDR).

 

[Cardinal]

Again, please show me the evidence that supports your claim that Trump supporters are bigots, and that he is playing to them.

You are obviously convinced of this, so let's see the evidence that led you to that belief.

Why play this game? You read the news, you clearly know what I'm talking about. It's a central part of his platform and is probably more infamous than any other part of his campaign. You already know that he directs his ire toward Mexicans and Muslims, and that the target of his message is blue collar white Christians. He calls Mexicans rapists and murderers, and says there should be a ban on Muslims from entering the country. The most visceral thing for his supporters is the image of a wall to keep these people out. This alone qualifies Trump for his picture to be added to "bigotry" in the dictionary. And when his supporters take it a step further and talk about actual internment camps for Muslims, you can add a picture of a crowd of Trump supporters alongside his picture.

 

[Cardinal]

Could you be more specific as to what ethnicities you're talking about and what religions? Also demonstrate how it has happened in a vacuum, without any cause. Also demonstrate how it has literally happened on a greater scale than what Trump has done but somehow it's not the same a Hitler (e.g FDR).

Which ethnicities? Go to news.google.com once in a while.

 

[Fishking]

Which ethnicities? Go to news.google.com once in a while.

So an empty claim, gotcha.

 

[Grim17]

Why play this game? You read the news, you clearly know what I'm talking about. It's a central part of his platform and is probably more infamous than any other part of his campaign. You already know that he directs his ire toward Mexicans and Muslims, and that the target of his message is blue collar white Christians. He calls Mexicans rapists and murderers, and says there should be a ban on Muslims from entering the country. The most visceral thing for his supporters is the image of a wall to keep these people out. This alone qualifies Trump for his picture to be added to "bigotry" in the dictionary. And when his supporters take it a step further and talk about actual internment camps for Muslims, you can add a picture of a crowd of Trump supporters alongside his picture.

If this is so clear cut, then why won't you post an example that substantiates your assertions?

 

[Cardinal]

If this is so clear cut, then why won't you post an example that substantiates your assertions?

Was what I said new information to you?

 

[Grim17]

Was what I said new information to you?

If this is so clear cut, then why won't you post an example that substantiates your assertions?

Since I have asked several times and you have yet to do so, I believe you subscribe to the theory that "if you tell a lie long enough, people will begin to believe it's a fact".

 

[BitterPill]

Why play this game? You read the news, you clearly know what I'm talking about. It's a central part of his platform and is probably more infamous than any other part of his campaign. You already know that he directs his ire toward Mexicans and Muslims, and that the target of his message is blue collar white Christians. He calls Mexicans rapists and murderers, and says there should be a ban on Muslims from entering the country. The most visceral thing for his supporters is the image of a wall to keep these people out. This alone qualifies Trump for his picture to be added to "bigotry" in the dictionary. And when his supporters take it a step further and talk about actual internment camps for Muslims, you can add a picture of a crowd of Trump supporters alongside his picture.

Amen!

 

[BitterPill]

If this is so clear cut, then why won't you post an example that substantiates your assertions?

He did.

 

[Cardinal]

If this is so clear cut, then why won't you post an example that substantiates your assertions?

Since I have asked several times and you have yet to do so, I believe you subscribe to the theory that "if you tell a lie long enough, people will begin to believe it's a fact".

I posted extremely well-publicized things that anybody who occasionally checks in on the news would know. Your question implies that you haven't read anything related to Trump for the past year. So I'm curious, are the examples I listed new information for you?

 

[Grim17]

I posted extremely well-publicized things that anybody who occasionally checks in on the news would know. Your question implies that you haven't read anything related to Trump for the past year. So I'm curious, are the examples I listed new information for you?

Post the specific quotes or videos that support your claims...That's all I'm asking.

If someone ask me about my opinion or position on a person or policy, I not only will provide the evidence of it, I will do some with extreme pleasure. That's because my beliefs and opinions are grounded in truth, not politics.

 

[Cardinal]

Post the specific quotes or videos that support your claims...That's all I'm asking.

If someone ask me about my opinion or position on a person or policy, I not only will provide the evidence of it, I will do some with extreme pleasure. That's because my beliefs and opinions are grounded in truth, not politics.

First I want to know: is what I said new information for you?

 

[cpwill]

Except it is the left who has the brownshirts out there attacking Trump supporters, not the other way around, so the comparison falls flat in many regards.

:shrug: one doesn't have to pretend that the fringe left isn't engaging in greater amounts of political violence to recognize fascism. "Fascism" =\= "The side currently throwing bigger hissy fits".

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

 

[Grim17]

First I want to know: is what I said new information for you?

Sorry, but I asked you first...

This is now the 7th time I have asked you to substantiate your claims and my guess is, there will be an 8th, 9th and 10th, because you can not provide, that which does not exist.

 

[Cardinal]

Sorry, but I asked you first...

This is now the 7th time I have asked you to substantiate your claims and my guess is, there will be an 8th, 9th and 10th, because you can not provide, that which does not exist.

1. Is the quote about Mexico sending us their worst, that they're rapists and murderers, new information for you?

Yes/No

2. Is the wall being a central theme of his campaign news to you?

Yes/No

3. Are Trump's repeated demands to blanket ban Muslims from entering the country news to you?

Yes/No

4. Is the discussion by Trump supporters in favor of internment camps news to you?

Yes/No

Before I answer your question, I want to know if you "went dark" for the last year.

 

[nntwored12]

It was totally different with Hillary. Everyone that's supported her knew UP FRONT she was a conniving, corrupt, lying sack of **** that exposed government secrets and allowed four men to die without trying to help.

Hillary Clinton supporters realize that everything you state about her is not true
You cannot prove anything you say about her

Other than the fact that she told her daughter something different than other people about Benghazi
She has been investigating and lied about more than any other politician

 

[Fishking]

:shrug: one doesn't have to pretend that the fringe left isn't engaging in greater amounts of political violence to recognize fascism. "Fascism" =\= "The side currently throwing bigger hissy fits".

I would say that inhibiting the political process is more than just a "hissy fit". I'd also say that it's more than just a fringe. It takes more than a friend to put the numbers in the streets to block roads and shut down events, like what we see today. It's more than the fringe that is not participating in such actions but that support those who do. These "hissy fits" are very dangerous and should be taken a lot more seriously than what they are. People should not feel threatened, intimidated, harassed, and have their freedom of movement blocked, when trying to participate in the political process.

These actions are the essences of the brownshirts. Trump may have some xenophobia or racist tendencies but that's not unique by any means, to either side. It takes more than some superficial comparisons.

 

[Puigb]

You are the one that claims both Trump and his supporters are bigots... All I'm asking is the evidence that supports that claim.

Spend five minutes on any right wing blogs/forums for starters. Nothing but racist/race baiting filth. And of course, black people are their number 1 punching bags.

 

[Grim17]

1. Is the quote about Mexico sending us their worst, that they're rapists and murderers, new information for you?

Yes/No

2. Is the wall being a central theme of his campaign news to you?

Yes/No

3. Are Trump's repeated demands to blanket ban Muslims from entering the country news to you?

Yes/No

4. Is the discussion by Trump supporters in favor of internment camps news to you?

Yes/No

Before I answer your question, I want to know if you "went dark" for the last year.

I will reply to the actual quotes/videos, not to your generalizations.

So for the 8th time, will you please provide the evidence that supports your claim that trump is running a bigoted campaign, and that his supporters are bigoted?

 

[Fishking]

I find it interesting to see so many Trump is Hitler comparisons. The same people that say Trump is Hitler worship someone who was more like Hitler than Trump could ever dream of being. The hero that is FDR. FDR who stayed in office until he died. FDR who tried to completely compromise a branch of government with his court packing scheme. FDR who actually ran internment camps.

Nah...FDR wasn't like Hitler. FDR was a hero and a great President. Trump is Hitler.

 

[cpwill]

That sounds more like Bernie supporters, than Trump supporters, minus the nationalism part because they don't really like America.

:lamo:

Yeah. Bernie Sanders is out there talking about how we need to deport illegals and start Winning again. . Bernie Sanders is running as a super-rich strongman.

But both do have overlap, you are correct there. That's why both think they can appeal to the others supporters.

In fact, the victim mentality is one of the pillars of neo-liberalism.

Sure. And now it's in the alt-right and the Trump movement. How often have you heard them justify themselves with "But We're Mad!", or complaints about trade taking jobs, or wages stagnating, etc.? They are integral to his campaign.

I mean, it isn't Trump supporters that feel victimized if a person from an opposing political view gets a chance to speak

Sadly incorrect, as can be seen in their reaction to those who criticize (or even fail to immediately bow down to) the object of their personality cult.

It isn't Trump supporters that run to safe zone because the victimization levels reached a degree so as to be intolerable and you get triggered.

Sure they do. It's called Breitbart, Conservative Treehouse, DrudgeReport, and Hannity.


Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk