Shutdown ends

[Utility Man]

He probably wants to be golfing by this time tomorrow.

:golf

He has to get his mind off of the "emergency" :lol:



How long has it been since he played ?

 

[Chomsky]

I think it's much like his threats to fire Mueller. He's puffing out his chest that he'll cross a line, hoping it scares people.

He can't afford to lose anymore political capital and as things stand, he needs a SOTU to help rebound his polls numbers at least a little.

Yep. Pelosi needs to greenlight him now ASAP, to indicate he's been rewarded for a good behaviour. I hope she does.

 

[Chomsky]

If his handlers are very clear that it would be another humiliation where he's overturned by the courts, I think he would avoid it.

Now I just think he's using the threat as a bluff because most people dont understand the legal hurdles (including myself but they seem to be stacked against him).

Perhaps. But I see him promulgating his Presidency as a Reality Show. As such, the theatrics would really play well with his base, regardless of the "real" realities of the situation.

 

[Tangmo]

No, the opposite. The legal waters are rather murky, with ONE test case where the SCOTA denied Harry Truman his attempt to nationalize the steel industry during the Korean War. I have read interpretations of that decision in this current situation and what is clear is that it won't happen fast.

There are several hundred NGO's who would all sue, then the landowners, all Texans, rich and armed who have already told Fox and NBC Trump will "never get my land"

There are a myriad of issues and one precedent, where SCOTA denied Truman his bid to take over the steel industry because of the "national emergency" of the Korean war. What I have read it is a very conclusive ruling, but old enough a judge might be persuaded to have a second look. There is also the issue of States rights and whether the Fed can simply walk in and build a wall.

Then you have environmentalists who would be well armed demanding and likely getting delays while the impact on the animal population, erosion issues etc. have been well studied.

Then you have the states, but I am pretty sure the Feds can't simply send in the Army Corps of Engineers and do what they want.

Anyone of those could hold up construction two to five years, by then what's Trump?

I contend him declaring a national emergency, which he would have to prove in court with reliable figures on illegals and drugs, would be the biggest mistake of any modern president.

Unless you want war in the streets, because that would be the next step

It's Potus grabbing people's land and their property on it that has hit the raw nerve of Trump's political-cultural base. It's raw economics and personal property rights which strikes at the core of the American system that is Trump's real wall now that Trump's folks are looking at the real thing and in place.

It's also the case btw congress waived environmental laws in border construction. So any issues of physical environment will not delay or otherwise postpone any border construction of any kind.

Plus 5000 active duty troops at the southern border have been playing cards and basketball for several months now to include the holidays of course. Bitching like hell throughout as it is every soldier's time honored right to bitch. It's made Pentagon very antsy about them and it.

 

[PLizzy]

Perhaps. But I see him promulgating his Presidency as a Reality Show. As such, the theatrics would really play well with his base, regardless of the "real" realities of the situation.

The thing is even they see this as a cave, so I don't think that will make a huge difference.

But I think more than anything else, Trump wants to start immediately at spinning this cave as not being his fault. I give it a few days before he starts throwing Republican senators under the bus, and positions them and McConnell to become right-wing media punching bags.

I don't think it will work because Coulter is already screaming like a banshee.

 

[Chomsky]

I think it's all bluster, those around him will stop him from such a stupid mistake. I think the wall ends here.

Well, he's about theatre (for his base). I'm not saying he will fight hard and accomplish anything with declaring an emergency, but might do it as an ineffectual facade to appeal to his base. It would be mostly show.

 

[haymarket]

I think it's really apparent....he opened AND closed with threats to declare a national crisis.

It's his weakness then...it's a strong indication that he's been advised it's a very bad idea that might make him look even stupider if the courts shoot him down again and that he wants to avoid it at all costs.

But he doesnt want The People to forget that 'he has the power to do so!' In the end, this may be the way he decides to save face, "I can do it and get my wall built, but I choose not to."

Every time Trump goes into the threat to declare a national emergency and steal the money for his wall from other sources, I see Jackie Gleason as Ralph Kramden on the old HONEYMOONERS TV show saying

"one of these days Alice - POW! - right to the moon" as he waves his fist at her. And then minutes later he is a little boy telling her that he loves her as totally capitulates and realize he was an ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98qw86DsdZ0

 

[Lutherf]

He's a loony man.

And he's in his 12th year in congress. Won his race again in 2018 by roughly 80%-20%

 

[tres borrachos]

And he's in his 12th year in congress. Won his race again in 2018 by roughly 80%-20%

Doesn't say much for his constituency.

 

[Chomsky]

The thing is even they see this as a cave, so I don't think that will make a huge difference.

But I think more than anything else, Trump wants to start immediately at spinning this cave as not being his fault. I give it a few days before he starts throwing Republican senators under the bus, and positions them and McConnell to become right-wing media punching bags.

I don't think it will work because Coulter is already screaming like a banshee.

Well, the bolded would be ideal. Under only several weeks of duress from the Dem House, they may crumble into acrimonious destructive pandemonium just like the White House. It would reinforce that everyone & everything that partners with Trump, dies.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Another valuable lesson was provided. All of the young/newbie Democrats learned the power of unity and of holding fast to their core values.

 

[Lursa]

He probably wants to be golfing by this time tomorrow.

:golf

He has to get his mind off of the "emergency" :lol:


How long has it been since he played ?

LOL I know! He so loudly criticized anyone that left DC and didnt 'keep working' on the shutdown crisis that the optics on going and playing golf while it was closed would have been ridiculous.

It probably did factor into his decision to deal now...I'm sure he sees the sacrifice the same as the 800,000 not getting paid. :roll:

 

[Bullseye]

Please make a minimal effort at the truth OK?

We all know that Pelosi and the Republicans had reached a deal to fully fund government. Trump said he would sign it. Then Fox news nailed him for abandoning the wall, Trump reversed himself again and then said he would not sign the deal.

Later, meeting with Congressional leaders he got snooty and declared "I will be proud to shut down government"

At this stage it would make sense and stop lying as Trump himself said "I will....shut down government" unless I get my wall.

Now you say the democrats refuse to agree? Why should they? If they do Trump will threaten a government shut down for everything, like gold inlaid toilette paper.

I used to have some respect for some in the American right, now I have none whatsoever.

Since Trump had the lead, the right side of America has become a dishonest, creepy bunch of the worst liars in America. Everything, every damn thing you Trumpketeers echo 100% lies, from the size of his hands (tiny) to his "accomplishments, 1 a huge tax cut to the richest people in the world to the so-called end of NAFTA (truth - Nafta has only been changed about .1% and the gain made in dairy will not pass), even claiming to have killed "Obamacare" when all that was done is the poorest people got cut out.

Lies.

LOL, what a pile of fetid, steaming horse****. The only lie here is you claiming to be "Independent" if there was a choice for "up Pelosi's butt" that would be more accurate.

 

[Bullseye]

Yeah, but "negotiation" is not legislation. Words are cheap, it's actions that count.

I fully realize that, particularly when they come from Dems. Feb 15 will come quickly and Trump won't be so agreeable on the 16th if the Dems double cross him.

 

[jnug]

that is his play. if he doesn't get it in these 3 weeks he will declare a national emergency and do it that way.
there is little a court could do about it and congress doesn't have the power to stop him.

you put out the very scenario that could happen.

Yes they can. By the time Trump could actually get the Core of Engineers or anybody else ramped up Trump would be in court.

The Youngstown Sheet decision would provide the president of merit and that does not fair well for the President.

That is likely what Emmet Flood has already told Trump which is likely the only real reason Trump has not gone down the National Emergency route to this point.

The idea that you are futzing around trying to "get your money" from congress and failing to do so creates a National Emergency is pretty thin. Congress does not have to provide funding and the Executive's inability to secure it is not a National Emergency.

 

[Tangmo]

Yep. Pelosi needs to greenlight him now ASAP, to indicate he's been rewarded for a good behaviour. I hope she does.

Rewarding a bully is one of the worst ideas possible. The statement is nuts.

Pelosi said at a news gaggle after Trump's news gurgle no sotu in the House unless it's mutually agreed. In other words Trump has to walk into the Chamber with his hands up.

Pull your head out dude.

 

[Tangmo]

In order to follow through after declaring a "national emergency", Trump will have to show cause to a court.

Strange there wasn't any border CRISIS! until two weeks before the midterms.

I highly doubt any federal court is going to fall for this transparently political tactic.

Trump's not your courts, judges and rulings guy.

Recall Trump has the official portrait of Andrew Jackson on the oval office wall right next to his desk. Trump and everyone there knows Jackson is the president who told the Supreme Court what to do with its ruling. About native Americans no less.

Trump did not pick Jackson out of a hat either. Trump means to send the message of defiance to the WH staff, cabinet, congress -- Scotus -- and to his supporters. So Trump's opponents need to take notice.

It's highly likely the WH counsel and staff among others don't want Trump doing a national emergency proclamation or fiscal transfer that creates a Constitutional issue or question before the courts. Trump is after all being clear about what he thinks of the Supreme Court, the Constitution, the rule of law. Trump's been torching each of 'em and more since his campaign began three years ago. And his fanboys are marching right alongside of him pitchforks and all.

 

[ludin]

Right.

We have been a post-Constitutional nation for the past 4 administrations but were on the brink of restoring Constitutional justice. That will end in 2020 and we will become a Social Justice nation.

hopefully not that would be a huge impact to freedom in general.
it would be a sad day for this country if that ever happened.

 

[Lutherf]

hopefully not that would be a huge impact to freedom in general.
it would be a sad day for this country if that ever happened.

You might be saying that now but once you're re-educated it will all be better!

 

[ludin]

You might be saying that now but once you're re-educated it will all be better!

i will probably be arrested and fine for refusing their re-education i mean indoctrination classes.

 

[Chomsky]

I fully realize that, particularly when they come from Dems. Feb 15 will come quickly and Trump won't be so agreeable on the 16th if the Dems double cross him.

I see two scenarios:

1] Dems throw Trump a bone, in the form of a plausible claim that he got something.

2] Trump calls for a national emergency, which essentially does nothing substantive, fails, but "shows" his supporters that he's "doing everything he can".

As an aside, if any of these clowns involved were serious about the problem, they'd mandate E-Verify which is what I seriously want. But no, they're all silent because they're all bull**** in stopping illegal workers, Trump included.

 

[Chomsky]

Rewarding a bully is one of the worst ideas possible. The statement is nuts.

Pelosi said at a news gaggle after Trump's news gurgle no sotu in the House unless it's mutually agreed. In other words Trump has to walk into the Chamber with his hands up.

Pull your head out dude.

Meh. Maybe I'm just more magnanimous and respectful of our Constitutional offices.

The guy opened the gov, and he's the President. He has the right to give a SOTU to Congress and the People. Also, I don't want to see Pelosi over-play her hand, and that's what not rescheduling the SOTU seems to be in my opinion.

 

[AGENT J]

No links yet.

From the Rose Garden, Trump has announced a tentative deal end to the government shutdown he initiated 35 days ago. This deal is a temporary funding bill of three weeks (February 15) and contains no funds for Trumps wall. During the three weeks, House/Senate negotiations will be held regarding border-security fund allocations. Federal employees will receive back pay asap.

This is what Democrats proposed weeks ago.

At least people will be getting back to work but he is probably goig to screw it up again because he isnt getting his wall.
So he'll either have to agree to doing REAL work on immigration reform and security or hell shut it down again.

like i said in the other thread, theres no logical or rational scenario i can think of where if the government closes again over this issue that the majority of blame isnt still on trump.

of course i think they all play a role and "share" blame but the majority falls on trump. A a person may convince themselves its equal blame even if that cant really be supported logically but theres no honest rational that moves the blame to the dems, none LMAO

 

[AGENT J]

I think he'll have no choice, and at least it will get a clear Constitutional ruling on these types of shenanigans.

agreed!

I said in another thread:

"in a way i hope he tries it. I want him to do it so the courts can shut it down and force the rules/better definition or precedence on "national emergency". Because i wouldn't want him or any president doing this based on something so monumentally stupid and this will prevent uneducated tyrants in the future for trying this nonsense also."

 

[Rogue Valley]

Senate passes bill to reopen government, heads to House next

1/25/19
The Senate approved a measure Friday to temporarily reopen the federal government with a short-term spending bill that does not include President Donald Trump's requested $5.7 billion for a border wall. The measure -- a three-week stop-gap spending bill that would reopen shuttered parts of the government through February 15 -- now heads to the House of Representatives and will then head to the President's desk for his signature. Once it is signed by the President, it will put an end to the longest government shutdown in US history.

Trump will be signing the funding CR into law later this afternoon.

This is the exact same deal he was offered 35 days ago. Why on earth did Trump put this nation through such chaos and agony for over a month?

The short of it: He's an awful politician, and a terrible president.