Shutdown ends

[tres borrachos]

Are there any specifics on this agreement out there? The only stuff I've been able to find is "open the government for three weeks" and "no funding for the wall". Granted, I've got a ton of RL stuff I'm doing so I'm not spending tons of time looking.

Anyway, if he didn't get any concession from Democrats then he caved. There's no other way to paint it. If he caved then there is no way he's going to get funding in 3 weeks..or ever. Basically, he just handed the 2020 election to the Democrats. They could run Maxine Waters and Hank Johnson at this point and win 50 states.

Isn't Hank Johnson the man who thinks Guam is capsizing?

 

[Lutherf]

I'm not so sure this will shake out as badly with Trump supporters as is theorized, once a little time passes and everyone settles down.

No one is fighting for his supporters pet cause (strong-immigration controls) as much as he is. They can see he's really trying for them, and there's no real alternative candidates. I think they'll stick with him.

Hey! I give the guy props for trying. I mean, every game has a winner and a loser but at least Trump was willing to stand in there and take his shot. He lost this one because he's an absolutely abysmal communicator and because half the GOP is more interested in staying on the cocktail party circuit than they are about abiding by the principles of the Constitution.

Oh, somewhere in this favoured land the sun is shining bright,
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light;
And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children
shout,
But there is no joy in Mudville—mighty Casey has struck out.

 

[HumblePi]

Ann Coulter appears to be a little upset, wouldn't you say?

 

[Lutherf]

Isn't Hank Johnson the man who thinks Guam is capsizing?

That's the one

 

[Fearandloathing]

Well, no, not exactly. The negotiations during those three weeks before the NEXT SHUTDOWN include discussions of "border barriers" - if the Dems had agreed to that back then no shutdown would have been required, at all.

Please make a minimal effort at the truth OK?

We all know that Pelosi and the Republicans had reached a deal to fully fund government. Trump said he would sign it. Then Fox news nailed him for abandoning the wall, Trump reversed himself again and then said he would not sign the deal.

Later, meeting with Congressional leaders he got snooty and declared "I will be proud to shut down government"

At this stage it would make sense and stop lying as Trump himself said "I will....shut down government" unless I get my wall.

Now you say the democrats refuse to agree? Why should they? If they do Trump will threaten a government shut down for everything, like gold inlaid toilette paper.

I used to have some respect for some in the American right, now I have none whatsoever.

Since Trump had the lead, the right side of America has become a dishonest, creepy bunch of the worst liars in America. Everything, every damn thing you Trumpketeers echo 100% lies, from the size of his hands (tiny) to his "accomplishments, 1 a huge tax cut to the richest people in the world to the so-called end of NAFTA (truth - Nafta has only been changed about .1% and the gain made in dairy will not pass), even claiming to have killed "Obamacare" when all that was done is the poorest people got cut out.

Lies.

 

[Mr Person]

Oh your despair is just so much fun! It's silly though, Sure it may kill Trump, but the GOP will find a way to come back. Sure you may have 4-8 years of waiting, but it's not near as gloom and doom as you say.

Even if Mueller nails Trump to the wall, the GOP will find a way to creep back. Have some faith. There's just too many interests propping it up.

For that matter, I'm a lib, but I wouldn't be happy in a world with no GOP to check the worst impulses, COme on man, America isn't about that!

Yeah, but if the GOP as he's come to know and love it in the last 10 years goes away, it's still a loss for him. No more liberals are evil and want to destroy America, no more OMG he's a kenyan muslim, no more government is always the enemy no matter what. No more a special counsel investigation by Republicans is a witch hunt and all those people who pled guilty did it just to stick it to Trump.

A lot of people won't want to let that go. They especially don't want to admit that they've been dead wrong about quiet a few silly things for a while now.

 

[MovingPictures]

You are likely correct about that, but it will still need Trump’s sig, right? Does a budget without a wall have a veto-proof majority in support?

Not necessarily.

Trump doesn't have the stones for a veto, so the most he would do is just not sign the bill and after ten days the bill is law anyways.

 

[Lursa]

The President May have the power to redirect funds and to order the Army Corps of Engineers to oversee construction. But there is already a past SCOTUS ruling that says, without the backing of Congressional legislation, a President does not have the authority to seize private property, even in a time of war. He may put together the money and manpower, but he won’t be able to get the land.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youngstown_Sheet_&_Tube_Co._v._Sawyer

Ooooooooooo! I'd seen some references to that. Would be excellent if true. (Not that I'm questioning you personally)

 

[Chomsky]

And as Michael Bennet so well explained, it was the GOP who turned down 46 billion in border security in 2013.


This has been the most obvious and transparent stunt yet. The usual suspects still fell for it in unison. Well, that's probably an undeservedly polite version. The real version is most likely that they are utterly without honor and willing to do or say anything to tell themselves that they stuck it to liberals.

Yeah, but now McConnel got burned and had to cave too. If Trump didn't learn, McConnel has. The political calculus changed a bit here, and I think set the precedence for future interactions.

 

[Lutherf]

more than likely it was a 3 week deal that funded certain departments and got people paid.
his next move is in 3 weeks sign a deal not get the wall declare a national emergency and do it anyway.

In that scenario he'll declare a national emergency, it will be contested in the courts, there will be an injunction issued, and nothing will be resolved before November of 2020. At that point it wont matter.

 

[Chomsky]

Now we’ll see if Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh approve......

No way!

 

[Tangmo]

Yep. Trump surrenders on his demand for wall funding and thereby ends the shutdown just hours after Roger Stone was arrested and indicted.

There's just no way that's a coincidence, given his long and retarded history.

Stone is looking at four walls.

Trump's doing everything he can to avoid a four for four day himself.

A four-fer.

 

[Mr Person]

Yeah, but now McConnel got burned and had to cave too. If Trump didn't learn, McConnel has. The political calculus changed a bit here, and I think set the precedence for future interactions.

I sure hope so. I know America has gotten through some bad times, but they were different bad times. If the insanity that started in 2007 (admittedly, having been brewing since the mid-90s along with the desire for a permanent conservative majority) keeps going indefinitely, we won't be able to address any of the very real problems that are coming. Things will fall apart.

 

[Lursa]

That man needs mental help. Seriously.

And the 800,000 will be living on the edge, still stressing, that they might be back on unpaid status again.

I sure hope they get their backpay during this 3 weeks.

 

[ludin]

The President May have the power to redirect funds and to order the Army Corps of Engineers to oversee construction. But there is already a past SCOTUS ruling that says, without the backing of Congressional legislation, a President does not have the authority to seize private property, even in a time of war. He may put together the money and manpower, but he won’t be able to get the land.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youngstown_Sheet_&_Tube_Co._v._Sawyer

This is where you are not correct. There is a 60 foot easement along the border that easement belongs to the federal government.
they can do whatever they want with it and don't need permission and they don't need to seize anything.
FDR signed this already.

 

[Chomsky]

I think it's really apparent....he opened AND closed with threats to declare a national crisis.

It's his weakness then...it's a strong indication that he's been advised it's a very bad idea that might make him look even stupider if the courts shoot him down again and that he wants to avoid it at all costs.

But he doesnt want The People to forget that 'he has the power to do so!' In the end, this may be the way he decides to save face, "I can do it and get my wall built, but I choose not to."

As an aside, I think trump's behaviours here may exemplify why Cohen fears him. Cohen knows him best, including having knowledge of Trump's non-public retributive techniques.

 

[ludin]

In that scenario he'll declare a national emergency, it will be contested in the courts, there will be an injunction issued, and nothing will be resolved before November of 2020. At that point it wont matter.

there is little a court can do. i don't see where they would issue an injunction. then again since when does our court system care about the actual law.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Yesterday GOP Senators handed Pence his ass at a luncheon. Told him to end the shutdown NOW.

From what I hear, on television this morning Trump saw chaos at the nations airports and heard pilots telling passengers that there will be take-off delays due to a shortage of air traffic controllers due to the government shutdown.

As I posted four weeks ago, Trump had painted himself into a political corner and the polls were going to eat him alive. In the end, Pelosi taught the bully a lesson in power politics.

 

[MovingPictures]

Yeah, but now McConnel got burned and had to cave too. If Trump didn't learn, McConnel has. The political calculus changed a bit here, and I think set the precedence for future interactions.

I predict that in the end Democrats will offer additional border security funds, with the majority going towards non-wall expenses.

He'll take the deal, spin the optics, and declare victory.

 

[markjs]

Yesterday GOP Senators handed Pence his ass at a luncheon. Told him to end the shutdown NOW.

From what I hear, on television this morning Trumps saw chaos at the nations airports and heard pilots telling passengers that there will be take-off delays due to a shortage of air traffic controllers due to the government shutdown.

As I posted four weeks ago, Trump had painted himself into a political corner and the polls were going to eat him alive. In the end, Pelosi taught the bully a lesson in power politics.

It just got shown that shady real estate "tycoons" don't have the skillset for Washington.:lamo

 

[Lursa]

there is little a court can do. i don't see where they would issue an injunction. then again since when does our court system care about the actual law.

So you're ok with him invoking a fake crisis and taking $$ from other agencies? They outlined where the $ would come from yesterday when they 'leaked or released' their plans for declaring the crisis.

 

[MovingPictures]

It appears Mr. Art of the Deal is actually Mr. Fart of the Deal. All air. I’m sure he will commence this **** show three weeks from now. Also.....coincidental he decides to end the shutdown on the same day a mueller indictments drops? I think not.

Someone get us out of this reality game show. It’s horrific.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do believe a lot of this was to help gather his base for Mueller's coming revelations.

It failed miserably.

 

[Chomsky]

that is his play. if he doesn't get it in these 3 weeks he will declare a national emergency and do it that way.
there is little a court could do about it and congress doesn't have the power to stop him.

you put out the very scenario that could happen.

I think this is a reasonably possible scenario. As good as any I could think of.

However, I don't think he'll get anywhere substantively with declaring an emergency, either. It will be more PR for his base, with little chance of substantive success.

 

[Lutherf]

there is little a court can do. i don't see where they would issue an injunction. then again since when does our court system care about the actual law.

Right.

We have been a post-Constitutional nation for the past 4 administrations but were on the brink of restoring Constitutional justice. That will end in 2020 and we will become a Social Justice nation.

 

[Lursa]

I predict that in the end Democrats will offer additional border security funds, with the majority going towards non-wall expenses.

He'll take the deal, spin the optics, and declare victory.

"They heard me, they had to listen, and I got what I wanted. Luckily I didnt have to declare a national emergency. You're all lucky! Federal workers are being paid again, thanks to me."

It will be interesting to see how he spins no funding specifically for the wall tho.