Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious freedom?

[Smeagol]

(CNN) -- A judge has ordered that the beard of Maj. Nidal Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of fatally shooting 13 people at Fort Hood, be forcibly shaved ahead of his upcoming military trial, base spokesman Tyler Broadway said Thursday.

Judge orders accused Fort Hood shooter to have his beard shaved - CNN.com

Argument for: Some devout Muslims think having a beard is a religious sacrament. The Koran states Mohammed had a beard so good Muslim men wanting to follow his example also have beards. As I understand it, and I could be totally wrong, its not a requirement of Islam but a personal choice when a Muslim wishes to demonstrate he wants to be extra devout. On the legal side, the First Amendment should allow it.

Argument against: This is not a civilian trial but a military court marshal. Military regulations, of which Hasan of which he is still a member, knew and agreed to, require military personnel to comply with uniform, appearance and other protocol standards during military proceedings.

 

[tessaesque]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

Personally, I don't care either way. The guy's gonna be found guilty with or without his beard. The only real question worthy of debate is "death sentence, or life sentence"?

 

[Wiseone]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

He's still in the Army isn't he? Thats all there is to it.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

He has not been discharged from the army. No beards. **** him, anyway.

 

[Smeagol]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

How this guy got into the Army in the first place is a mystery. If I recall, he was frustrated that the infidel women of America who he saw as his only pool of potential spouses weren't saving themselves for him. The depression and frustration became more than he wanted to bear so he goes on a homicidal rampage.

I think he knows he's toast and finds a sense of comfort in wearing a beard feeling that it might impress the right individuals in his soon to be experienced afterlife.

He joined the Army and agreed to the rules including mandatory shaving of facial hair. If however he can have his trial reassigned to a civilian criminal court, which the military allows in some cases for various reasons, then yes I say let him grow a beard.
.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

As far as religion reference: Jacob shaved his head in going before Pharoah.

As far as law goes, this is UCMJ, right? We sign away many rights when we volunteer.

The scumbag is obviously trying to stir crap among Muslims.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

On the legal side, the First Amendment should allow it.

That ignores the contract he signed. Fail.

 

[Pinkie]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

This guy's main concern should be in staying alive. He'll be judged by military people -- I don't see how it'd help him to appear before them unshaven, in violation of the military code he once swore to abide by.

Whether he gets death or not, he'll be alive after the trial. He can grow his beard then.

 

[nota bene]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

How this guy got into the Army in the first place is a mystery. If I recall, he was frustrated that the infidel women of America who he saw as his only pool of potential spouses weren't saving themselves for him. The depression and frustration became more than he wanted to bear so he goes on a homicidal rampage.

I think he knows he's toast and finds a sense of comfort in wearing a beard feeling that it might impress the right individuals in his soon to be experienced afterlife.

He joined the Army and agreed to the rules including mandatory shaving of facial hair. If however he can have his trial reassigned to a civilian criminal court, which the military allows in some cases for various reasons, then yes I say let him grow a beard.
.

He will not have his trial reassigned.

 

[joko104]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

That is a complicated issue under the circumstance. I think the military should drop the issue and let him keep it as he is doing so to add to martyrdom. In addition, if not I would think the only action the military could take is a court martial charge for his refusal to do so - as opposed to forcibly shaving him.

Could the military impose a rule that all male soldiers be circumsized? What of Jews who refused? The most possible is a court martial and dishonorable discharge - and that would seem excessive. Forcible penal surgery would not be a legitimate court of action.

 

[joko104]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

This guy's main concern should be in staying alive. He'll be judged by military people -- I don't see how it'd help him to appear before them unshaven, in violation of the military code he once swore to abide by.

Whether he gets death or not, he'll be alive after the trial. He can grow his beard then.

Naw, staying alive seems off the table because once he goes out of the spotlight his imprisonment in a military prison until he dies likely may be worse than death. The only thing he has left to pursue in life is whatever he believes and hoping to "his people," his cause and to his God his life - living or dead - came to a meaningful end.
When you have no cards left to pay, you stand on your principles what little you still can. And, in this last small way, he can go down fighting to the end.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

That is a complicated issue under the circumstance. I think the military should drop the issue and let him keep it as he is doing so to add to martyrdom. In addition, if not I would think the only action the military could take is a court martial charge for his refusal to do so - as opposed to forcibly shaving him.

Could the military impose a rule that all male soldiers be circumsized? What of Jews who refused? The most possible is a court martial and dishonorable discharge - and that would seem excessive. Forcible penal surgery would not be a legitimate court of action.

When it comes to contracts, we sign away our rights every day. That's what he did. That's the contract he signed. Game over.

 

[joko104]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

When it comes to contracts, we sign away our rights every day. That's what he did. That's the contract he signed. Game over.

Then the question is what happens in breach of contract? Are you claiming he should be bound down and forcibly shaved?

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

Then the question is what happens in breach of contract? Are you claiming he should be bound down and forcibly shaved?

THAT, Joko, is an excellent question. I don't know the answer. What do they do in prison if one doesn't want a prison haircut? In the service, if you won't get a haircut, what's the penalty? Getting thrown out of the service? I'd imagine this guy'd want THAT penalty in a heartbeat. Really. Good question.

 

[Porchev]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

Then the question is what happens in breach of contract? Are you claiming he should be bound down and forcibly shaved?

Since there is no question about what he did, I would personally love to see him bound down and forcibly dry shaved.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

Interesting that "religion" is being used as an excuse to the beard. Why the beard now instead of growing it when he first came into service?
Some think the military should let him keep it out of respect for his religion. What about the Hasan showing some respect for the US? Respect is a two way street.

Since he did not grow or have a beard prior to the shooting/killings, I see no reason for him to have one now. Miltary dress standards apply.

We could save time and money by doing away with him. We know he is guilty of the crimes.

 

[Goshin]

Re: Should Nidal Hasan be allowed to stand trial with his beard citing religious free

If he was not in the military i'd say keep the beard.

When you sign on the dotted line and swear the oath you become US Government Issue. Compliance is not optional.