Should Military Bases named after Confederate Soldiers be re-named?

[Gaius46]

Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton. Adams, Franklin were all traitors.

Not to the United States they weren’t. And to be blunt about they won, otherwise they all likely would have been hung.

 

[Gaius46]

He fought against America and killed American soldiers. What would you call him? A national hero?

He wasn’t a traitor so the comparison doesn’t further your argument.

 

[iguanaman]

Why is it that a small percentage of the population can dictate how history should be represented?
We're talking about you and your black brethren.
Keeping my racism front and center? You are so head up over the names of army bases because you suddenly woke up to the fact they were named after Confederate generals. You never knew that until George Floyd WOKE you up.
It is your pro-black racism that is demanding we change history to suit you.
Now you are striking while the iron is hot. And if it doesn't happen the way you want it to happen, you will probably join marches to revise history or else burn down more shopping centers because you didn't get your way.

It is pro-American to remove the results of racism from our midst. You are a rebel for wanting them to stay. We don't like rebels and certainly do not listen to them.

 

[grip]

There are currently ten military bases named after Confederate soldiers. Should these be re-named? They were only named after confederates in order to make southerns feel better about military integration. The President insists that these people are heroes and made America great.

Of course, they should be changed. That will make all kinds of difference in today's problems.

 

[Bullseye]

They should not, it's history...stop erasing it.

Excellent choice.

I trained for one of my military qualifications at Ft Bragg. I didn't give two thoughts about who it was named after, but I do prefer to use a name my peers will recall when we share old "war stories."

Meanwhile, erasing history does nothing to change the reality of it...the sole purpose is to remove it from future minds. As if it never happened. Then create "new history" of whatever stripe the erasing parties want.

IMO it is important to leave these remimders around. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Well put. I thought about this for a while before finally deciding the names should stand - The simplistic argument that the Civil War was simply about slavery is grade school level thinking. Robert E. Lee was offered Supreme Commander of the Union Army but felt honor and loyalty dictated he fight for Virginia. And yes, he owned slaves AND wrote about the anguish it cost him.

We also need to remember less than 10% of southerners owned slaves - what were they fighting for?

Trying to judge based on today's "woke" mentality is, IMHO, ludicrous. I can't think of a single person who would deserve a monument or statue or a base named after him/her if every detail of their lives was questioned.

We got deeper doo-doo to worry about than base names or statues in the park.

 

[iguanaman]

Sounds to me like you speak ill of the Obama FBI agents and not Trump. Trump was not sworn in.

I am speaking ill of pro-Trump FBI agents who's bias was translated into illegal leaks and blackmail. You know... the anti-Trump bias you claim others had although they did nothing wrong because of it.

 

[chuckiechan]

You're okay with military forts being named for people who supported slavery and killed U.S Citizens?

We were pretty hard on the Indians, too. Do suggest we should disband the USA and everyone move back to their country of ancestoral origin.

 

[iguanaman]

The South did not commit treason. For a number of sound reasons. Reason 1. Voters living there gatherers to vote and they decided to secede. Secession then and even now is legal.

Reason 2. They gave the Union due notice. The Union being a bag of puss refused to remove the troops. Abe invaded Va. Abe committed treason. Not against the South, but our own remaining nation. Abe was a traitor.

Check your Constitution. There was no provision for succeeding from the union then and there is still none now. That makes them traitors. I know why you hate Lincoln too.

 

[Rawley]

Oooops

 

[Captain Adverse]

And how is that relevant to my argument that statutes to Confederate leaders should be removed and bases named after them renamed because they are de facto traitors?

I don’t agree with the destruction of public property. Those people are wrong. That does not affect the legitimacy of the demand to remove the statutes.

It certainly does if the demand is from a vocal, but nonetheless minority of the population involved.

Even less if the demand is from people who aren't even members of that community.

If you advocate for Democracy, then it should be put to the people of the community in question. To let them DECIDE by voting one way or the other.

You don't allow a "rabble" of destructive radicals free-reign to "tear things down" on their own initiative.

There is no "legitimacy" in that, unless you advocate mob rule. One might as well argue that just because a particular mob thinks someone is a "witch," this naturally grant's them the authority to "burn her."

 

[Gaius46]

It certainly does if the demand is from a vocal, but nonetheless minority of the population involved.

Even less if the demand is from people who aren't even members of that community.

If you advocate for Democracy, then it should be put to the people of the community in question. To let them DECIDE by voting one way or the other.

You don't allow a "rabble" of destructive radicals free-reign to "tear things down" on their own initiative.

There is no "legitimacy" in that, unless you advocate mob rule. One might as well argue that just because a particular mob thinks someone is a "witch," this naturally grant's them the authority to "burn her."

I have no problem with that. Nor do I have a problem with vocal minorities making demands.

My point has always been that traitors should not get statues or their names on government facilities.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I have no problem with that. Nor do I have a problem with vocal minorities making demands.

As long as the vocal minority is simply "making demands." That is free expression.

However, acting to enforce their demands? That is a horse of a different color. :no:

My point has always been that traitors should not get statues or their names on government facilities.

And you are entitled to that opinion, and I will support your right to express it.

However, that does not make it dispositive as to whether or not those statues or names remain. :shrug:

 

[Glitch]

The South did not commit treason. For a number of sound reasons. Reason 1. Voters living there gatherers to vote and they decided to secede. Secession then and even now is legal.

Reason 2. They gave the Union due notice. The Union being a bag of puss refused to remove the troops. Abe invaded Va. Abe committed treason. Not against the South, but our own remaining nation. Abe was a traitor.

Actually, the south did commit treason according Article III, Section 3, Clause 1 of the US Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

On April 12, 1861 the southern Democrats became traitors when they levied war against the US by attacking Fort Sumter.

 

[Crosscheck]

Really? A grocery store clerk is your stereotype of a black friend?

Well take in account that Meridian Idaho as of 2020 has a population of 97,008 of which has an African American percentage of 0.65%

Taking that in account with his advanced age the possibility of him having a contact with an African American would probably be with one of his normal outings.

I figure a grocery store is one of his most regular outings.

 

[uptower]

There are currently ten military bases named after Confederate soldiers. Should these be re-named? They were only named after confederates in order to make southerns feel better about military integration. The President insists that these people are heroes and made America great.

Nothing wrong with removing or rebranding statues. However the base names needn't be changed unless that's what the state's people want. They were military installations named out of respect for an enemy who had fought bravely - and were wrong and lost, remember that revisionists.

As long as that is pointed out it makes sense to keep them as they are.

However the statues that honor a dead confederacy need to be rethought. In neither case should these confederate soldiers or other leaders be treated as heroes.

Tell you what folks, if there's a southerner who fought or campaigned to free slaves those people's statues deserve pride of place. Relegate the traitors to the museum.

 

[OlNate]

Since my goal in life is to make your day, I will adopt your thinking and go along with "fixing statistical disparities which prevent America from calling itself a free and civilized nation, and end the practice of honoring racist traitors".
Although, we should all admit that the main objective in naming those bases was not to honor racist traitors but to appease a South that needed to be brought into the fold during KKK and Jim Crow times.
I call it appeasement as opposed to honoring Confederate generals who fought the Union.

Oooh...I do enjoy you. Your sarcasm is delicious - seriously, compliments to the chef.

Of course, I do understand the original intent, but irrespective of intention, the outcome is what the outcome is. Either way, though, it's probably ok to abandon the sentiment, as everyone it applied to is long gone, leaving the ones still enamoured with the proposition that they may be pining for some pretty problematic stuff.

Anyway...given that I do not believe we have talked before, nice to meet you. I'm sure we'll chat again.

 

[humbolt]

I could potentially support the “terribly flawed cause” bit but I think treason goes well beyond a terribly flawed cause.

I’m not good with rioting. The statutes should never have been erected and the bases named in the first place. They statutes should come down and the bases renamed.

The south seceeded. Treason is a charge thrown around pretty greely these days, but hyperbolic tendencies of late just scream, "Pay attention to me." That's not directed at you. I'm just noting the trend.

I really don't care what name is attached to military bases. I would just note that Captain Crunch is a white guy. Something should be done about that.

 

[Eriech]

You're okay with military forts being named for people who supported slavery and killed U.S Citizens?

There were good people on both sides killing American citizens. The constitution was written after the colonies seceded from England and allowed for that future possibility should the need arise. The statues are of local American Heroes from our history. The solution is to create more monuments to be reflective of current heroes.
The destruction of the Mathias Baldwin statue is particularly telling.

Will we someday erase the history of those who supported abortion too?

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[Glitch]

The south seceeded. Treason is a charge thrown around pretty greely these days, but hyperbolic tendencies of late just scream, "Pay attention to me." That's not directed at you. I'm just noting the trend.

I really don't care what name is attached to military bases. I would just note that Captain Crunch is a white guy. Something should be done about that.

The south became traitors on April 12, 1861. The day they opened fire on Fort Sumter and declared war against the US.

Article III, Section 3, Clause 1 of the US Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

Every Democrat Confederate, and they were all Democrats not a single Republican among them, were all traitors.

 

[humbolt]

The south became traitors on April 12, 1861. The day they opened fire on Fort Sumter and declared war against the US.

Article III, Section 3, Clause 1 of the US Constitution:


Every Democrat Confederate, and they were all Democrats not a single Republican among them, were all traitors.

South Carolina had sedeeded from the Union already. If one isn't part of the US, one can hardly be called a traitor to it.

 

[Glitch]

South Carolina had sedeeded from the Union already. If one isn't part of the US, one can hardly be called a traitor to it.

Then they shouldn't have started Civil War, because that made them all traitors.

 

[Integrityrespec]

There are currently ten military bases named after Confederate soldiers. Should these be re-named? They were only named after confederates in order to make southerns feel better about military integration. The President insists that these people are heroes and made America great.

Who really cares?I doubt if most people know who they are named after. Besides it only seems to bother the extreme left white liberals.

 

[Eriech]

Wonder which would trigger more, Fort Bragg or Fort Trump?

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[Waddy]

There are currently ten military bases named after Confederate soldiers. Should these be re-named? They were only named after confederates in order to make southerns feel better about military integration. The President insists that these people are heroes and made America great.

Who needs history? It's really over rated. Considering we're putting women into combat roles, despite the fact they can't cut it, let's re-name the bases for feminist parts; Fort Vagina has a nice ring to it. Or Fort *****; that's reflects current combat readiness......

 

[Tigerace117]

Wonder which would trigger more, Fort Bragg or Fort Trump?

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Both are incompetent narcissists with no busy being in command of any military force whatsoever.


“Fort Trump” would only make sense if it immediately surrendered to the Russians :lamo