should Islam4UK march in Wootton Bassett?

[gunner]

Islam4UK are apparently planning a march through Wootton Bassett. The significance of choosing Wootton Bassett, for those that are not familiar, is the town has put on 'an unofficial' repatriation ceremony for the home coming of British service men and women returning from Afghanistan.

BBC NEWS | UK | Thousands honour repatriated men


BBC News - Today - Should Islam4UK march in Wootton Bassett?


from there website:

Islam 4 UK Home page

LETTER: To the Families of British Soldiers who have died or who are currently in Afghanistan

the second paragraph down states:

"We begin by inviting all non-Muslims to Islam, the perfect and most beautiful way of life, a favour from Allah (God) to mankind to take him out of the darkness of worshipping his own desires to the exclusive worship, submission and obedience of Allah alone, without partners and to testify the Messenger-ship of the final Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). We urge you to embrace Islam and save yourselves and your family from the hellfire and not to believe the lies and distortions which the Western media and non-Islamic regimes would have you believe about Muslims and their true intentions. Islam means submission and the Muslim is the one who submits to the will of God in his life. Verily the Messenger Muhammad told us that whoever heard his name from the Jews and Christians and did not believe would be held accountable for that on the day of judgement."

Do you feel its appropriate to choose Wootton Bassett as the setting for the march?

Paul

 

[Gardener]

Islam4UK are apparently planning a march through Wootton Bassett. The significance of choosing Wootton Bassett, for those that are not familiar, is the town has put on 'an unofficial' repatriation ceremony for the home coming of British service men and women returning from Afghanistan.

BBC NEWS | UK | Thousands honour repatriated men


BBC News - Today - Should Islam4UK march in Wootton Bassett?


from there website:

Islam 4 UK Home page

LETTER: To the Families of British Soldiers who have died or who are currently in Afghanistan

the second paragraph down states:

"We begin by inviting all non-Muslims to Islam, the perfect and most beautiful way of life, a favour from Allah (God) to mankind to take him out of the darkness of worshipping his own desires to the exclusive worship, submission and obedience of Allah alone, without partners and to testify the Messenger-ship of the final Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). We urge you to embrace Islam and save yourselves and your family from the hellfire and not to believe the lies and distortions which the Western media and non-Islamic regimes would have you believe about Muslims and their true intentions. Islam means submission and the Muslim is the one who submits to the will of God in his life. Verily the Messenger Muhammad told us that whoever heard his name from the Jews and Christians and did not believe would be held accountable for that on the day of judgement."

Do you feel its appropriate to choose Wootton Bassett as the setting for the march?

Paul

Until Britain develops a collective a backbone, these "in your face" displays will continue, and probably intensify.

 

[alexa]

Islam4UK are apparently planning a march through Wootton Bassett. The significance of choosing Wootton Bassett, for those that are not familiar, is the town has put on 'an unofficial' repatriation ceremony for the home coming of British service men and women returning from Afghanistan.

BBC NEWS | UK | Thousands honour repatriated men


BBC News - Today - Should Islam4UK march in Wootton Bassett?


from there website:

Islam 4 UK Home page

LETTER: To the Families of British Soldiers who have died or who are currently in Afghanistan

the second paragraph down states:

"We begin by inviting all non-Muslims to Islam, the perfect and most beautiful way of life, a favour from Allah (God) to mankind to take him out of the darkness of worshipping his own desires to the exclusive worship, submission and obedience of Allah alone, without partners and to testify the Messenger-ship of the final Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). We urge you to embrace Islam and save yourselves and your family from the hellfire and not to believe the lies and distortions which the Western media and non-Islamic regimes would have you believe about Muslims and their true intentions. Islam means submission and the Muslim is the one who submits to the will of God in his life. Verily the Messenger Muhammad told us that whoever heard his name from the Jews and Christians and did not believe would be held accountable for that on the day of judgement."

Do you feel its appropriate to choose Wootton Bassett as the setting for the march?

Paul

They do not have much support. They were intending one previously to Trafalga square on Muslims for Sharia. Other Muslims were planning a March 'Muslims against Sharia' to go at the same time.

Here is the link I found

Hilarious! The idiots from Islam4UK are now claiming they’ve been the subject of death threats and bomb threats and have now cancelled their march for tomorrow in central London. Message posted on their website. I’ll write more tomorrow morning but I hope the counter-marches still go ahead.

Pickled Politics The wimps from Islam4UK cancel march!


They cancelled it. Obviously if they do it, those that wish will imagine that is what all British Muslims are like which will be why a counter march was organised by Muslims for the previous one.

Edit: as to the appropriateness, for them, yes. I suspect they are one of those organisations wanting people to hate Muslims. For general Muslim or anti war protest, totally inappropriate and unhelpful.

 

[Apocalypse]

What could be the legal justification for banning that Islam4UK protest?

 

[PeteEU]

What could be the legal justification for banning that Islam4UK protest?

Like in the US, local police have to give permission for such gatherings.. and if they think it is a security issue then no protest.

 

[Apocalypse]

Like in the US, local police have to give permission for such gatherings.. and if they think it is a security issue then no protest.

Are there any kind of predictions as to the UK's action on this one? (Permission/no permission)

 

[PeteEU]

Until Britain develops a collective a backbone, these "in your face" displays will continue, and probably intensify.

Eh? You totally lost me.. what does Britain's supposed lack of a backbone have to do with the question at hand?

Let me explain what Wootton Bassett is.. I bet it is a bit alien to you yanks, since honouring your war dead does not happen in public.

A British service member dies overseas and is transported home in a C5 to a military air field just outside Wootton Bassett called RAF Lyneham.

Now the dead hero's are met with the usual military honour and more than often shown live on national TV. Once the bodies were put in hearses, they were driven out of RAF Lyneham to their final destinations and in doing so, they have to pass through Wootton Bassett.

Now when it started I dont know, but out of the blue people started to form an honour guard when the procession passed through the town. They just started to show up and honour the dead, no organisation no nothing. Just standing there silent, stopping what they were doing, closing the stores and many coming out of their homes and from out of town to honour the dead. This continues today (although with a bit more organisation) and is often shown live in national TV.

To me the people of Wootton Bassett and those that honour the fallen in that way are heroes and should be respected and anyone protesting them or the dead soldiers regardless of who they are should be ashamed. Go ahead and protest the war but dont disrespect people who had no choice in the matter and gave the ultimate sacrifice. Protest the politicians not the soldiers.

 

[Manc Skipper]

They probably achieved their goal by gaining a "debate" on Radio 4, and stirring up some controversy/publicity.

 

[PeteEU]

Are there any kind of predictions as to the UK's action on this one? (Permission/no permission)

Since it seems the organisation cancelled the rally then I am guessing.. no action

But saying that depends on the day I guess. If there is a repatriation going on then I doubt that they would allow it. Too big a security risk. Plus there is the added fact of a near by RAF base and the security issues involved with that.. so who knows.

 

[alexa]

Since it seems the organisation cancelled the rally then I am guessing.. no action

If that was in response to what I said, it was their previous match they cancelled.

But saying that depends on the day I guess. If there is a repatriation going on then I doubt that they would allow it. Too big a security risk. Plus there is the added fact of a near by RAF base and the security issues involved with that.. so who knows.

'Fraid they have already said it will not be on a repatriation day, trying to be all reasonable. :roll:

I don't know if it was them who did the protest there before. Apparently they now have 500 members.

Muslims in Bath oppose protest march in Wiltshire town of Wootton Bassett which is being organised by radical group Islam4UK

 

[gunner]

What could be the legal justification for banning that Islam4UK protest?

I would of thought very little, as long as they stay clear of inciting violence or extremism.

I feel in choosing the town of Wootton Bassett shows the extremist nature of the organisation. I have looked for more info and it seems, fortunately, they are NOT widely supported in the Muslim community.

Paul

 

[Apocalypse]

Since it seems the organisation cancelled the rally then I am guessing.. no action

Can you source it, please?
I didn't hear about it being canceled.

 

[gunner]

Can you source it, please?
I didn't hear about it being canceled.

I don't think it has. But, they have yet to clarify a date, or gain permission from the authorities.

Edited to add, considering the story is from today, i doubt very much if its been cancelled. I think PeteEU has misinterpreted something.

Paul

 

[PeteEU]

Can you source it, please?
I didn't hear about it being canceled.

Hmm I read it in post 3 here, but looking at it, it was the London protest they cancelled. My bad..

But lets see.

 

[Djoop]

should Islam4UK march in Wootton Bassett?

Yes, a perfect chance for the other english muslims to show their contempt. A perfect chance for the government to show the limit.

Or..


A perfect chance for parties like the BNP to show the results of Labour.

 

[Manc Skipper]

This from the ITN (commercial TV) website

" The leader of a controversial Islamic group has vowed to continue with plans for a march through Wootton Bassett in an online letter to families of fallen soldiers.

Anjem Choudary of Islam4UK - a branch of the extremist al-Muhajiroun movement - sparked dismay with plans to parade through the town famous for honouring service personnel killed in Afghanistan.

Civic leaders begged the former lawyer to reconsider his proposal for 500 members to walk up the Wiltshire town's High Street, carrying empty coffins. But Mr Choudary re-stated his reasons for the march on his website.

In a letter which mispells the town's name, Mr Choudary said: "It is worth reminding those who are still not blinded by the media propaganda that Afghanistan is not a British Town near Wootton Basset but rather Muslim land which no one has the right to occupy, with a Muslim population who do not deserve their innocent men, women and children to be killed for political mileage and for the greedy interests of the oppressive US and UK regimes.

"The procession in Wootton Basset is therefore an attempt to engage the British public's minds on the real reasons why their soldiers are returning home in body bags and the real cost of the war."

A Facebook site dedicated to preventing the march has already attracted over 120,000 members. ... "

Islamic leader intent on Wootton Bassett march

 

[Ikari]

Well they have targeted that area for a reason. And while people may disagree with it, I see no purpose in banning the march. They should be free to assemble and associate as they see fit and if they want to publicly display their message, protest, or whatever; then they should be more than free to do that as well. I see no reason for banning the march.

 

[alexa]

Well they have targeted that area for a reason.

true Publicity.

And while people may disagree with it, I see no purpose in banning the march. They should be free to assemble and associate as they see fit and if they want to publicly display their message, protest, or whatever; then they should be more than free to do that as well. I see no reason for banning the march.

Which they almost certainly will not do. The Guardian has a good article on the leader of this organisation and its rise.

Please don't listen to Anjem Choudary | Mehdi Hasan | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

 

[Ikari]

None of that really has anything to do with the legitimacy of allowing them to march. There's no reason to prevent the march. Sure, they may be idiots; but where's the law against that? No one said anyone had to pay them any mind, but there's no real justification for barring the march in and of itself.

 

[alexa]

None of that really has anything to do with the legitimacy of allowing them to march. There's no reason to prevent the march. Sure, they may be idiots; but where's the law against that? No one said anyone had to pay them any mind, but there's no real justification for barring the march in and of itself.

But it does have a lot to do with the appropriateness of it, which was what the OP asked, though I know other people were talking about whether it could be banned.

 

[gunner]

None of that really has anything to do with the legitimacy of allowing them to march. There's no reason to prevent the march. Sure, they may be idiots; but where's the law against that? No one said anyone had to pay them any mind, but there's no real justification for barring the march in and of itself.

I,m not sure you have grasped the context of trying to stage the march in Wootton Bassett. As has been mentioned 'i ask if you feel its appropriate to hold it in Wootton Bassett'?

Paul

 

[Ikari]

But it does have a lot to do with the appropriateness of it, which was what the OP asked, though I know other people were talking about whether it could be banned.

How "appropriate" it is to have the march is inconsequential. That's going to depend on your opinion on the war. In general protest for or against can be given arguments for appropriateness. In the end, what it comes down to is "what can you do about it?". And the answer to that is "nothing".

 

[alexa]

How "appropriate" it is to have the march is inconsequential. That's going to depend on your opinion on the war. In general protest for or against can be given arguments for appropriateness. In the end, what it comes down to is "what can you do about it?". And the answer to that is "nothing".

Ok, I did not support going into Afghanistan in the first place, so just lets get that clear.

But I do not see any reason to deliberately disrespect and offend grieving people. That for a start is inappropriate. I am not sure where you live but here in the UK although there is less and less support for the Afghan war, there is no situation like the Vietnam war.

This organisation I think is the one which organised a small demonstration with 12 people at troops homecoming about a year ago and those 12 people managed to get all the air time.

The result on the Muslim community brings things like big increases in BNP membership and attacks on Muslims.

The effect on the war is zero.

These radical Muslims have as much interest in getting public opinion against Muslims as the BNP has.

Hence the march at this place is not appropriate for two reasons

1. Because it is disrespecting grieving people

and 2. Because it leads to more problems for the Muslim community.

Does Zero for the ant war effort. That is not its focus.

I thought the guardian article made that clear?

 

[Ikari]

If one were to honestly view the war in Iraq and Afghanistan as Western aggression towards the ME, the argument can be made that it is appropriate to protest at this site. It's a well known site where the bodies of soldiers are brought in, there will be publicity for protesting there. One can make the point that the actions of the West in the area disrespect the people of the area far more than a protest in a city could ever do. The dead are dead, but people make excuse to make more dead people which could be argued as being significantly worse than protest in the city. What these people intend to do is up to them and their cause. I merely said that arguments of appropriateness can be made for both sides of the argument. I thought reading would make that clear.

 

[alexa]

If one were to honestly view the war in Iraq and Afghanistan as Western aggression towards the ME, the argument can be made that it is appropriate to protest at this site. It's a well known site where the bodies of soldiers are brought in, there will be publicity for protesting there. One can make the point that the actions of the West in the area disrespect the people of the area far more than a protest in a city could ever do. The dead are dead, but people make excuse to make more dead people which could be argued as being significantly worse than protest in the city. What these people intend to do is up to them and their cause. I merely said that arguments of appropriateness can be made for both sides of the argument. I thought reading would make that clear.

Yes, of course and I am well aware that this sort of idea is the kind of idea which makes people politically more open to radicals which is exactly why I said in my first post on this that for Islam 4 UK it is appropriate but for the general Muslim population and anti war protests it is imappropriate.

I accept and acknowledge your argument and I can see your point but you need to take in the broader picture.

What will it achieve?

Edit: Because I know what Islam4UK wants it to achieve.