Should hand-held cell phone use be banned while driving?

[Kandahar]

Try to stay relevant.

Is that a yes or a no? If you think it should be illegal, how is this different?

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Is that a yes or a no? If you think it should be illegal, how is this different?

Well, I was discussing how a person is required to maintain control of his vehicle in a responsible manner, and somehow you're equating that to intoxication.

When you make sense of what you're asking, let us know. Frankly, a man CAN operate a motor vehicle and talk on a telephone at the same time. It'a matter of prioritizing his multitasking abilities and an awareness of his environment and a willingness to drop the damn phone and pay attention if things get crowded. It's not rocket science.

When they pass laws banning single occupant vehicles from restaurant drive-thru's then we'll know they're serious about distracted driving. Right now, cell phone use is half the frequency of eating behind the wheel.

 

[Kandahar]

Well, I was discussing how a person is required to maintain control of his vehicle in a responsible manner, and somehow you're equating that to intoxication.

When you make sense of what you're asking, let us know. Frankly, a man CAN operate a motor vehicle and talk on a telephone at the same time. It'a matter of prioritizing his multitasking abilities and an awareness of his environment and a willingness to drop the damn phone and pay attention if things get crowded. It's not rocket science.

Just like somebody CAN operate a motor vehicle after getting drunk out of his mind. That doesn't mean it's a good idea. And no, talking on a cell phone while driving is NOT just a matter of multitasking, any more than driving while intoxicated is just a matter of concentrating on the road. Studies have shown that cell phone use while driving is just as dangerous as driving while intoxicated.

Just like not every drunk driver causes an accident every time he gets in the car, not every cell phone user causes an accident every time he gets in the car. The POTENTIAL for hurting someone is why they should be illegal.

When they pass laws banning single occupant vehicles from restaurant drive-thru's then we'll know they're serious about distracted driving. Right now, cell phone use is half the frequency of eating behind the wheel.

Half the frequency for what? Number of accidents? How does that compare to the amount of time people actually spend doing those things while driving? Thanks for playing, better luck next time.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Just like somebody CAN operate a motor vehicle after getting drunk out of his mind. That doesn't mean it's a good idea. And no, talking on a cell phone while driving is NOT just a matter of multitasking, any more than driving while intoxicated is just a matter of concentrating on the road. Studies have shown that cell phone use while driving is just as dangerous as driving while intoxicated.

No. An intoxicated person is not competent to make that decision. Intoxicated people often have a habit of waking up next to really ugly women they don't know, too.

A sober person driving with a telephone can. The ideal place to yak and drive? Doing sixty down the freeway at non-congested times. The most likely time to get a ticket for yakking while driving? Going down the freeway at 60 during non-congested times.

Hey. I showed stats showing that cell phone use is half as frequent as at least three other types of distractions.

You got any numbers to support any claim that cell phone use is responsible for a greater fraction of accidents than other distractions? Note that what you cite would have to compare cell phone distractions with other types of disctractions, and it can't be some bogus "oh gee, cell phones were found in cars in X% of fatal accidents".

Got a good study? I'd enjoy seeing it. If you don't have a study, why are you crying about my numbers? I don't pretend they say things they don't.

 

[aps]

You know, there are actually these little cards you can print out and then fill out when people on cell phones are annoying you....I actually saw them on the news a couple of months ago, it's hilarious. Let me see if I can find the website again.....

Ahh, here it is. There's an option to download in the middle column. It's a PDF file....

http://www.coudal.com/shhh.php

OMG, this is hilarious! I might have to try this one day.

 

[aps]

Why? It wasn't the cell phone that caused the accident, it was your son's negligence. So why should other people be penalized because other people, including your son, don't have the sense of responsibility it requires to drive an automobile safely?

He suffered minor injuries for one reason. He hit a truck, not another car. Miracles got nothing to do with it. He was down on the deck neglecting his duty, and because he didn't hit bumper-to-bumper, his car didn't decelerate at a high gee nor did it crumple, thus avoiding the sudden impact followed by the accordioning of your normal car wreck. The shearing action that wedged the kid's car under the truck reduced the rate of deceleration to a tolerable level and the vehicle was stopped by drag forces not impact forces, and significant amounts of kinetic energy were turned into the strain energy that crushed the car.

Brakes, however, applied by a driver watching the road, perform a more effective stop without significant structural damage. That's what they're designed for.

I am, of course, assuming that the "truck" was either an 18-wheeler rig or some other high and sizeable commercial vehicle, and not my trusty old S10 pickup. That, and the SUV's on the road, are nothing more than oversize cars.

My step daughter hit a telephone pole with her friend's car (her friend didn't have a license) because her cell phone rang. I didn't attribute the fact that no one was seriously hurt to anything except low speed and dumb luck. No miracles. I didn't blame the phone, I didn't blame the telephone pole or the company that put it there, I didn't even blame the other girl's father who told me the car had wobbly steering. I blamed the driver, 100%. So did she.

Scarecrow, you're one hell of a guy. Nice of you to kick someone when they're down. I don't care if you're trying to make a point. Your total lack of disregard for doughgirl's devastation shows what a jerk you are.

 

[BWG]

Around the time the automobile was coming into existence someone (maybe Henry Ford?) predicted that only about a million people (albeit with a smaller population) would be licensed to drive an automobile. Maybe we should have listened a little closer. :smile:

 

[doughgirl]

I am not saying it was not my sons fault. But cell phones are a distraction.
Smoking cigarettes distractions.........reading the paper at intersections while waiting for the light to change a distraction, putting makeup on would be a distraction.........You are not suppose to take your eyes off the road. And we all do it. But I think many more accidents than you think would not happen if cell phones were not allowed to be used while driving.

You talk about rights here.....and being allowed to do what you want in your own car?

Then why should anyone other than children be forced to wear a seat belt? They might save lives for those in accidents but playing devils advocate here, I am a good driver, won't happen to me. You have no right to make me wear one.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Scarecrow, you're one hell of a guy. Nice of you to kick someone when they're down. I don't care if you're trying to make a point. Your total lack of disregard for doughgirl's devastation shows what a jerk you are.

Oh, no kudos for doughgirl for dragging a private moment out in public to use in a debate? Once it's out here, babe, it's fair game.

Too bad about her boy, but, I'll say it again, he has no one to blame but himself. Unless it's his mom, who called him while she thought he was driving.

Is that heartless enough for you?

 

[alphieb]

I hate noisey *** people on their cell phones that are calling the cops or gossiping on the phone while driving. I had someone call the cops on their cell phone on my seven year old son, because he was simply walking down the side walk very close to my house. They should be watching the road and minding their own businees.

 

[Captain America]

I am not saying it was not my sons fault. But cell phones are a distraction.
Smoking cigarettes distractions.........reading the paper at intersections while waiting for the light to change a distraction, putting makeup on would be a distraction.........You are not suppose to take your eyes off the road. And we all do it. But I think many more accidents than you think would not happen if cell phones were not allowed to be used while driving.

You talk about rights here.....and being allowed to do what you want in your own car?

Then why should anyone other than children be forced to wear a seat belt? They might save lives for those in accidents but playing devils advocate here, I am a good driver, won't happen to me. You have no right to make me wear one.

First and foremost Doughgirl, I am very sorry to hear of the tragic accident concerning your son. I hope with every grain of my existance that he fully recovers. I also extend my sympathies to you and a heartfelt understanding of what that must have been like for you going through that. I feel your pain. I hope you get through this ok as well......

Myself, I am as guilty as anyone about using my cell while driving. But since cell-phones have taken the place of alcohol as being the #1 reason for car accidents, I would have to say, even though I am guilty of it myself, there oughta be a law.

I was talking to this drummer friend of mine last month. In the middle of his sentence I heard "OH SH**!" Then, all I heard was glass and smashing metal followed by a dashboard buzzer. You guessed it. 65 mph into a wall on a wet curve in a big 18 wheeler.:shock: He's sore but he survived.

 

[doughgirl]

Thank you so much Captain for the kind words. It has been devastating and has changed my life in more ways than you know.

I feel sick day and night and can't seem to get over it. It's been a bad six months as I lost my mother and my aunt last fall...so I am an emotional wreck. BUT...........I count my blessing every day and I have so much to be grateful for.....friends and family and Jesus Christ for without whom I could not function.

Thank you for your kind words......

It's funny what you think will never happen to you. Other peoples kids get in accidents, other parents kids mess up. But we stand with our kids through it all don't we? I will be so glad when my boy is married with a wife and kids......:rofl He is only 20 almost 21 so I have a ways to go I think.

We do have far to many distractions in the car......when I think of the things I have done while driving it makes me sick. When I think of the close calls I have had it makes me cringe and this accident not only has opened my sons
eyes but mine as well.
A person could have a distractionand a 5 second delayed reaction and they could easily kill an innocent human being.


I don't know if it was my call that he was getting ready to get......we will never know, but I do feel some responsibility and I feel horrible.

Thanks Captain.....

 

[jallman]

Thank you so much Captain for the kind words. It has been devastating and has changed my life in more ways than you know.

I feel sick day and night and can't seem to get over it. It's been a bad six months as I lost my mother and my aunt last fall...so I am an emotional wreck. BUT...........I count my blessing every day and I have so much to be grateful for.....friends and family and Jesus Christ for without whom I could not function.

Thank you for your kind words......

It's funny what you think will never happen to you. Other peoples kids get in accidents, other parents kids mess up. But we stand with our kids through it all don't we? I will be so glad when my boy is married with a wife and kids......:rofl He is only 20 almost 21 so I have a ways to go I think.

We do have far to many distractions in the car......when I think of the things I have done while driving it makes me sick. When I think of the close calls I have had it makes me cringe and this accident not only has opened my sons
eyes but mine as well.
A person could have a distractionand a 5 second delayed reaction and they could easily kill an innocent human being.


I don't know if it was my call that he was getting ready to get......we will never know, but I do feel some responsibility and I feel horrible.

Thanks Captain.....

I could not agree with you more, doughgirl. We have a policy here at my work that if a call comes in while you are on the clock and driving, then you are to pull over to take it. I personally implemented zero tolerance for not adhering to this particular policy. And yes, I have suspended a tech because I pulled up beside him at a light while he was on the phone in his car.

I wish your son the best for a speedy recovery. You'll also be in my prayers as I remember how my mother fretted when I had my accident...a mother's worry is nothing to trivialize.

 

[Stinger]

Missed the point, eh? Then you responded to the point by claiming it isn't the point, and now you're calling up a conspiracy.

You didn't make a point, you defend keeping talking on cell phones legal by pointing out the danger of putting on mascara while driving. Well putting on mascara while driving is illegal. So what is your point?

If you don't like your job, this is America. Quit.

This is Ameirca if people are doing something that endangers the public I'll work to get a law passed to make it illegal.

You clearly didn't understand what I said, which is that cell phone use is not the most distracting element of driving.

Whether or not it is the MOST I don't care, the fact is that it IS and it is dangerous enough to pass a law preventing it. The other "distractions" you mention ARE illegal so what was your point in posting them?

Again: if the goal is less distraction in the car, there are three items of higher incidence to address first, the least of which is twice as common as cell telephone use. So why pick on the telephones?

Because it is dangerous enough.

This is a rational question derived from objective data. Given the above data, what are your real motivations for your continued obsession with telephones?

Post you data, you haven't posted it to me. But here is some to back up my side

Car Accidents Linked to Cell Phones

July 2005
The next time you find yourself dialing and driving, you might want to hang up your phone, even if you are using a hands-free device.
According to the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS), you are four times more likely to be involved in a serious accident when using a cell phone while driving. The IIHS claims hands-free cell phone devices do not improve driver safety either. The study included 456 drivers in Western Australia who were using a cell phone when they were involved in an accident serious enough to send them to the hospital. Due to privacy laws protecting phone records, the study couldn’t be performed in the U.S.
To help reduce driver distraction, laws are being passed to limit cell phone use while operating a vehicle. Each state determines the law, if any, restricting cell phone usage while driving.

http://www.autoaccidentlegalcenter.com/news/accidents/cell-phones.html

 

[Captain America]

I have a speaker phone in my office. I need something like that in my car. That would make things a bit safer. That darned hand-held will be the life of me yet.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

You didn't make a point, you defend keeping talking on cell phones legal by pointing out the danger of putting on mascara while driving. Well putting on mascara while driving is illegal. So what is your point?

My point was that many people can't see relevant examples that don't support their pet theories, that their not capable of actually thinking objectively about issues but that they merely run over the next cliff with the rest of the herd because they're emotionally stimulated by Orwellian group think to increase the restrictions on the freedoms of other people and that by doing so they're not smart enough to see when the threads of bondage settle about their own shoulders also.

Pointed enough for ya?

This is Ameirca if people are doing something that endangers the public I'll work to get a law passed to make it illegal.

This is America, where all citizens must look exactly like every other, must behave like every other, and think like every other, especially when Stinger is the role model.

Then again, I can tell that Stinger isn't familiar with the Constitution.

Whether or not it is the MOST I don't care, the fact is that it IS and it is dangerous enough to pass a law preventing it. The other "distractions" you mention ARE illegal so what was your point in posting them?

You must have missed the points I made about revenues and excuses to stop and search, eh? Also about how most cell phone use tickets will be issued on open freeways, and not on crowded streets where they might actually pose a hazard? I'm pretty plain spoken, most of the time. Why have you missed what I've been saying?

Because it is dangerous enough.

Nah, that's noise. Show me the statistics of vehicular accident mortality rate versus cause of accident before you make wild claims like that. Or did you miss the post where I mentioned that it ain't the hands that's a problem? You see, the laws don't ban cell phone use. They ban holding the ******* things. So arguments by you people against yakking while while driving are moot. You need to distinguish between yakking on the phone, yakking up your lunch, fondling the phone, and fondling your girl's breasts while driving.

Only one of the four I listed is the target of pending law. The supporters of this nonsense are so emotionally tied up in it that they refuse to see the parallels, similarities, and the absurdities I've been drawing all around them.

Anyone seen Goldstein? Maybe he's got a cell phone now?

Post you data, you haven't posted it to me. But here is some to back up my side

I posted data showing the relative frequency of distraction. No, I didn't post it to "you", but you know, this is a free board, and you're more than welcome to read posts that don't have your name on them.

Car Accidents Linked to Cell Phones

July 2005
The next time you find yourself dialing and driving, you might want to hang up your phone, even if you are using a hands-free device.
According to the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS), you are four times more likely to be involved in a serious accident when using a cell phone while driving. The IIHS claims hands-free cell phone devices do not improve driver safety either. The study included 456 drivers in Western Australia who were using a cell phone when they were involved in an accident serious enough to send them to the hospital. Due to privacy laws protecting phone records, the study couldn’t be performed in the U.S.
To help reduce driver distraction, laws are being passed to limit cell phone use while operating a vehicle. Each state determines the law, if any, restricting cell phone usage while driving.

http://www.autoaccidentlegalcenter.com/news/accidents/cell-phones.html

Four times more likely than what? What's the basis for comparison? As usual, yet another biased batch of sloppy statistics is presented to shore up confused thinking. Got any numbers for the mean values, the distributions, the standard deviations, medians or modes? No, just a pull quote with two unrelated values "four times" and "456".

Meaningless.

 

[alphieb]

A week ago, I got a DUI, because an alleged dispatch call was made from a cell phone that I was all over the road. At .13 BAC I'm sure I was no more "all over the road" than the eager beaver on his/her cell phone while driving. The report stated they were following me while phoning in. I'm not excusing my actions, but they were a threat to, by obviously consuming their time on a phone.

 

[alphieb]

As far as I'm concerned, everybody can take their cell phones and shove them up their A$$'s.

 

[Stinger]

My point was that many people can't see relevant examples that don't support their pet theories, that their not capable of actually thinking objectively about issues but that they merely run over the next cliff with the rest of the herd because they're emotionally stimulated by Orwellian group think to increase the restrictions on the freedoms of other people and that by doing so they're not smart enough to see when the threads of bondage settle about their own shoulders also.

Pointed enough for ya?

No, your overhyped rhetoric is just gobbeltygook. You said that cell phone use should not be made illegal because people put on mascara which is dangerous, well putting on mascara IS illegal while driving, so what is your point of bringing up putting on mascara? It makes MY point, BOTH should be illegal.

This is America, where all citizens must look exactly like every other, must behave like every other, and think like every other, especially when Stinger is the role model.

Sorry, you apparently having nothing of intellectual substance to add to the debate and I have no interest in your hyperbole.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

No, your overhyped rhetoric is just gobbeltygook. You said that cell phone use should not be made illegal because people put on mascara which is dangerous, well putting on mascara IS illegal while driving, so what is your point of bringing up putting on mascara? It makes MY point, BOTH should be illegal.



Sorry, you apparently having nothing of intellectual substance to add to the debate and I have no interest in your hyperbole.

Are you yet another one of those people for whom simple-minded dogged repetition of what you've already said and what's already been refuted is their best effort at intelligent debate? If you're not going to answer what I said with evidence you've read what I've said, why are you bothering?

 

[BWG]

A motorist has been fined after being caught by a speed camera taking both hands off the wheel to apply make-up while driving near a north Wales town.


Story

 

[aps]

A motorist has been fined after being caught by a speed camera taking both hands off the wheel to apply make-up while driving near a north Wales town.


Story

Great news! I have no tolerance for people who pull this kind of crap. Why are people so stupid?

 

[Stinger]

Are you yet another one of those people for whom simple-minded dogged repetition of what you've already said and what's already been refuted is their best effort at intelligent debate? If you're not going to answer what I said with evidence you've read what I've said, why are you bothering?

I have answered what you have asked and pointed out that YOUR premise supports MY arguement. Today on Fox and Friends they had film of a woman putting on make-up while driving and reporting how she was arrested and given a ticket for careless driving. Studies now show that driving while talking on the cell can be JUST as distracting and distracting in it's own unique way. It should be treated the same way as the distractions you have pointed out to support YOUR arguement, that is illegal.

 

[aps]

I have answered what you have asked and pointed out that YOUR premise supports MY arguement. Today on Fox and Friends they had film of a woman putting on make-up while driving and reporting how she was arrested and given a ticket for careless driving. Studies now show that driving while talking on the cell can be JUST as distracting and distracting in it's own unique way. It should be treated the same way as the distractions you have pointed out to support YOUR arguement, that is illegal.

Ahhh, Stinger, I love it when we agree. :cheers:

 

[jallman]

Ahhh, Stinger, I love it when we agree. :cheers:

but god it is a pain when you disagree with stinger...I like that guy. :2wave: