sex and gender are two different things. where is the trans movement headed?

[bomberfox]

XD I love how all you have are insults, not a great argument

I dont care.

 

[maquiscat]

You seem to be doing a lot of conflating, or else you are not getting your thoughts out coherently.

I would also like to take the time to say that males don't exist without females. In the womb you cross female to get to male, certain parts have to grow from females thats why those with massive labias i believe its called although im probably wrong indicates that they were headed for male, adapted some parts such as "don't be a *****" which can said to be quite a male trait. This is biology that has to do with that development but again its not based on sexual organs even natural trans won't have two sexual organs they would have one working and one that's partially developed.

This is confusing. It reads as if you are confusing body variations with intersex conditions. What do you mean by "natural trans", which seems to imply "unnatural trans" or "artificial trans"? Are you maybe referring to hermaphrodites? I will agree that, to my knowledge, there has been no actual full on hermaphrodite among the intersexed. But intersex is not the same as transgender.

Yes, of course. Is it common? Not particularly, but much more than we used to assume.

This seems like you are responding to someone, but there is no quoted text to give context to your statement.

The consensus of serious scientific and medical research is that gender identity (the heart of the transgender phenomena) is biologically rooted in our prenatal development.

This is also confusing because that is what Lisa said, and yet you were saying that she was wrong. Which is it?

Most likely transgender variation will eventually be classified as a type of intersex condition. In any case, it is simply one of countless variations in human development.

I will agree that any non-binary genders would be analogous to being intersex.

Intersex talking about chromosomes. This is what happens when these areas get smashed together by people who don't understand the science.

This very much reads as a case of the pot calling the kettle black. You seem to be doing a bit of smashing areas together yourself.

Because sex is biology doesn't mean it takes into account chromosomes, that again is different

No it is not. Chromosomes are part of biology.

even got this
No. Transgenderism is a mental illness.

Again, a seeming response to someone, with no quote for context. And no transgenderism is not a mental illness. Transgenderism cannot be cured or managed. It is simply a state of being, an innate trait much as skin color or sexual orientation. Gender Dysphoria, on the other hand, is a mental illness, caused by the transgenderism. We can alleviate the GD, currently only by various levels of transitioning, but we cannot fix the source at this time.

It is two parts of a brain’s function (body part and mind part) in conflict over homosexuality (genetically, “born as”).

Again, conflation. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with transgenderism.

It is what happens after centuries of persecution for something (genetic imprinting related to suppression and/or regression) that then becomes socially commonly held or accepted as the norm. (No need for suppression/regression but still a need or drive to).

Some mechanic in the brain then comes into conflict between sexuality and physical identity.

It is solely a homosexual mental illness. (ALL who personally identify with this, will have genetic markers for homosexuality in their genes, whether latent or dormant. Born as. Of course there will be those who identify merely to be different or due to social identity. A mockery or mimicry syndrome akin to “copycat killers”, not really killing but attracted to the attention ie. Narcissistic identity disorders. The difference between the two being surgery, physically proving it. )

 

[maquiscat]

I would also like to point out, I hate men who can't control their testosterone. the trans people I've met have no idea how to control it.
Oestrogen is natural in females and provide effects
testosterone also has an effect. I've noticed it heavily, its like a 16 year old girl who doesn't know what testosterone is like. they're just going to be as ****y as the males that can't handle it. It's a new drug your not use to it will effect you

What are you talking about here? No one controls their hormones. Are you talking about trans men taking testosterone?

 

[maquiscat]

well break it down
wtf man talking about that sex is purely sexual organs not chromosomes and not gender.

No sex is not purely sexual organs. Chromosomes are a major part of sex and sexual development. It is true, however, that when we view a person, we think more in terms of their genitals, despite not seeing them, than we do in terms of their chromosomes.

This is referring to all the replies that bring up chromosomes but call it sex, different subjects again. Intersex is different to sex

Basic biology. Chromosomes, specifically the X and Y chromosomes and the SRY gene, are about sex. Through them a person becomes male, female or intersexed.

This is to just simply what sex is how gender can't replace is because its completely different subject.
Whats so hard to understand gender is irrelevant to sex and therefore can't replace it because they are not the same

Gender and sex are indeed two separate things. One does not replace the other, nor is there, for a majority of the trans community, any attempt to replace one for the others in and of itself. Now that doesn't mean that there are not areas of life where the gender should be the deciding criteria, and others where the sex should be the deciding criteria. But that is not replacing sex with gender.

XD were you the type of person who got mad at insurance agency's saying only sex is allowed. why? because that has useful information. the information you keep posting should not involve children they are still developing
^ referring to an issue where the trans community tried to get that changed but they wouldn't because that info is necessary to providing insurance

You'll have to reference this incident. Which insurance type? Medical vs automotive can actually make a difference.

So you can't break it down? I just did. Please come back with something productive and not trying to insult my language when you don't understand it

Dude, you just "broke it down" and then quoted him again as responded as if he had had a change to respond. Which of course he did not. There is no insult to your language. In knowing that a person is using English as a second language, one can realize that a person might not have the grammar and syntax down and can ask questions to try to get the original idea out that didn't initially come across. However, it seems to me that English is your first language, and that you have some form of dysgraphia that you have never learned to compensate for. You for certain are having problems getting your ideas out and across.

 

[maquiscat]

I'm sick of seeing replies like "should they just kill themselves"
That's hostage diplomacy.

You can consider me what you want, I just wan't to leave the world better than when I was born
Something not so shit.

Where are you seeing that? Are you referencing outside the thread again?

 

[maquiscat]

Doe's anyone here not like what happened with rittenhouse?
He was an actual good guy who came to stop looting not peaceful protest.
He shot people because they tried to grab his gun which is fine in terms of law.
Even morally he didn't want to kill, his actions make that clear. he had so much restraint, and it wasn't until the other guys were right up in his face.

WTF? This is no where near on topic. What does Rittenhouse have to do with transgenders?

 

[Lisa]

WTF? This is no where near on topic. What does Rittenhouse have to do with transgenders?

I gave up replying to WT. His arguments are both ignorant of medical facts and incoherent.

 

[CLAX1911]

My guess is to the answer of the title of this. Full religious right conversion therapy we get down to brass tax that's all transgenderism is. You can't take the gay out of the kid so you change their sex.

An interesting thing to look at is the detransitioners. I was watching One video with a young woman who was sort of couraged into believing she was transgender and she was almost in tears because she actually had a mastectomy and she's come to the realization she can never get that back.

It's rather heartbreaking if you go looking for it but it's a good cautionary tale.

If you have kids and a screwball School district get on the hell out of there.

 

[roguenuke]

I agree, I come from a family where my dad ****ed off and I was raised by females who are extremely motivated.
My eldest sister is going to become apart of the 1%, because she has the work ethic of doing everyone's work till 3 in the morning
Why? because she wants to earn favours that will benefit her.

A trans person will not have the same life as a born male or female. why would you consider them the same then?

Most people don't have the same life as any other person. There is no reason to consider them as different based on "will not have the same life as".

 

[Maxell;4]

What exactly is a "trans movement"?
Is it a suggestion that trans is a type of choice rather than a mental illness?
Trans people are always just wanting to be accepted for who they are.....but they just couldn't accept who they were.
Isn't that hypocritical?
You have men that "changed", became a manufactured female, certainly not a real one, then married a lesbian.
There is absolutely nothing normal or genetically pre-disposed about that chain of events.
It's mental illness run amuck but some progressive members of society would rather accept and explain it away than face the reality of it.
Then the trans athletes......what in the hell is that about?
If there is anything good coming out of this "movement" it's that the confusion and bizarre picture this paints has make gay and lesbian couples seem perfectly normal.
At least those groups know who they are and are happy with themselves.

 

[bomberfox]

That's extremely inefficient. Which is why we use definitions to ensure we can understand each other.
XD sorry to burst your bubble but precise definitions are needed for effective communication

Talking about an attack on science? someone has to

Yes they are. Gender is a social construct. Sex is not, it still exists whether we define it or not

Promoting science fact, ensuring conversations are not shut down.
How about a general dislike of facism.
Not allowing conversation because you dislike it is exactly fascism
The CCP?, they just get rid of people that don't agree
So can you see how the communities actions are fascist

V perfect example of discrimination - this was where I got the quote "but it's good discrimination right?"
Does that sound like good discrimination?, she was fired for not being trans

'It's not about cancel culture': Hedwig and the Angry Inch postponed after trans-led petition

The show’s creators have said the role should be ‘open to anyone’, after the casting of Hugh Sheridan in a Sydney production drew ire from sectors of the queer community

www.theguardian.com

There is no fascism in play.

 

[bomberfox]

yes I'm attacking people for animal cruelty, diregarding science fact and a community pushing discrimination.
You seem the person justifying actions and using hostage diplomacy just "should we just kill ourselves" did I ****ing say that, no you implied it

What animal cruelty?….. You are making shit up.

 

[bomberfox]

What exactly is a "trans movement"?
Is it a suggestion that trans is a type of choice rather than a mental illness?
Trans people are always just wanting to be accepted for who they are.....but they just couldn't accept who they were.
Isn't that hypocritical?
You have men that "changed", became a manufactured female, certainly not a real one, then married a lesbian.
There is absolutely nothing normal or genetically pre-disposed about that chain of events.
It's mental illness run amuck but some progressive members of society would rather accept and explain it away than face the reality of it.
Then the trans athletes......what in the hell is that about?
If there is anything good coming out of this "movement" it's that the confusion and bizarre picture this paints has make gay and lesbian couples seem perfectly normal.
At least those groups know who they are and are happy with themselves.

Gay and lesbian couples are pretty cool.

 

[bomberfox]

It is just astonishing that you don't see how contradictory this is.

How could a newborn, with no exposure to society as yet, have developed an identity with regard to a construct created by that society to which they have not yet been exposed?

Do people also develop their identity as Star Wars fans in the womb? You don't think it might be reasonable to consider actually watching a Star Wars film prerequisite to developing an identity as a Star Wars fan?

Many societies have third genders. Were those based on sex? No they were not.

 

[bomberfox]

XD I love how all you have are insults, not a great argument

Anecdotes are piss poor arguments too.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Many societies have third genders. Were those based on sex? No they were not.

Who said anything about third genders being based on sex?

The question is, are babies born with that third gender identity? Or do they need some kind of exposure to a society that has a third gender, in order to develop a gender identity around that third gender?

 

[Phys251]

Who said anything about third genders being based on sex?

The question is, are babies born with that third gender identity? Or do they need some kind of exposure to a society that has a third gender, in order to develop a gender identity around that third gender?

Sounds like the myth that having gay parents makes one gay.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Sounds like the myth that having gay parents makes one gay.

How does it sound anything remotely like that?

Why is it that no one outside of Indic culture is born identifying as tritiya-prakrti?

 

[Phys251]

How does it sound anything remotely like that?

Please, we heard that line for forever. It's like the transphobes borrowed the homophobes' lines and rephrased them only slightly.

Why is it that no one outside of Indic culture is born identifying as tritiya-prakrti?

You think that no other culture on the planet recognizes multiple genders?

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Please, we heard that line for forever. It's like the transphobes borrowed the homophobes' lines and rephrased them only slightly.



You think that no other culture on the planet recognizes multiple genders?

It is difficult to tell whether you are intentionally trolling or just genuinely confused.

Why is it that the people who are born with a tritiya-prakrti identity all happen to coincidentally end up being exposed to Indic culture? If that identity is something people are born with, wouldn't you think there would be people all over the globe being born with a tritiya-prakrti gender identity?

 

[Phys251]

It is difficult to tell whether you are intentionally trolling or just genuinely confused.

You must think that gaslighting is an effective form of "debate" against me. So sorry.

Why is it that the people who are born with a tritiya-prakrti identity all happen to coincidentally end up being exposed to Indic culture? If that identity is something people are born with, wouldn't you think there would be people all over the globe being born with a tritiya-prakrti gender identity?

Instead of asking stupid questions, why don't you look up Third gender and read? Third-gender is a concept in

• Mesopotamian
• Indic
• Mediterranean
• Arabian
• Israeli
• Mayan
• Inuit

ancient cultures, just to name a few. And that's not to say about the global concept of multiple genders now.

So you should stop embarrassing yourself by doubling-down on your "third genders are only in India" implication. It's a terrible look for you.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

You must think that gaslighting is an effective form of "debate" against me. So sorry.



Instead of asking stupid questions, why don't you look up Third gender and read? Third-gender is a concept in

• Mesopotamian
• Indic
• Mediterranean
• Arabian
• Israeli
• Mayan
• Inuit

ancient cultures, just to name a few. And that's not to say about the global concept of multiple genders now.

So you should stop embarrassing yourself by doubling-down on your "third genders are only in India" implication. It's a terrible look for you.

You thought I was asking about tritiya-prakrti because I hadn't looked up third gender? I picked it randomly from that same Wikipedia article you just linked to.

I thought a single example would illustrate my point, but if you want to answer the question for all of those examples, be my guest.

Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Mesopotamian societies all happened to be born into Mesopotamian societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Indic societies all happened to be born into Indic societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Mediterranean societies all happened to be born into Mediterranean societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Arabian societies all happened to be born into Arabian societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Israeli societies all happened to be born into Israeli societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Mayan societies all happened to be born into Mayan societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Inuit societies all happened to be born into Inuit societies?

Is it really so hard for you to grasp that the social construct of gender requires a society in order to construct it before it can become an identity?

 

[Phys251]

You thought I was asking about tritiya-prakrti because I hadn't looked up third gender? I picked it randomly from that same Wikipedia article you just linked to.

I thought a single example would illustrate my point, but if you want to answer the question for all of those examples, be my guest.

Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Mesopotamian societies all happened to be born into Mesopotamian societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Indic societies all happened to be born into Indic societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Mediterranean societies all happened to be born into Mediterranean societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Arabian societies all happened to be born into Arabian societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Israeli societies all happened to be born into Israeli societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Mayan societies all happened to be born into Mayan societies?
Why is it that people born with a gender identity constructed by Inuit societies all happened to be born into Inuit societies?

Is it really so hard for you to grasp that the social construct of gender requires a society in order to construct it before it can become an identity?

Knew it. You're going all in with a completely meaningless point.

It's also interesting that you have given up on the "third gender is only Indic" implication. Apparently now you are going for the "society never affects gender expression" argument. As if no culture in human history EVER affected human behavior.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Knew it. You're going all in with a completely meaningless point.

It's also interesting that you have given up on the "third gender is only Indic" implication. Apparently now you are going for the "society never affects gender expression" argument. As if no culture in human history EVER affected human behavior.

I never claimed that the "third gender is only Indic." I claimed that tritiya-prakrti in particular is a construct of Indic society. People who have never been exposed to Indic culture are not born with a concept of themselves as tritiya-prakrti. A concept of oneself as tritiya-prakrti requires exposure to that social construct. Relating your experience to a social construct requires exposure to that social construct. Newborns do not have a concept of themselves in relation to social constructs that they have never been exposed to.

 

[maquiscat]

Sounds like the myth that having gay parents makes one gay.

Especially since more gays come from straight parents, and most children of gay parents end up straight.