• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Senate Democrats Seek to Protect Mueller From Being Fired

Midwest Lib

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
679
Reaction score
472
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/us/politics/trump-mueller-fired-special-counsel.html

Senate Democrats said on Friday that they would seek to ensure that continuing budget negotiations included legislation to protect Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel in Russia investigation, from being fired by President Trump.

Whelp. Who's ready for shutdown 2.0? It's going to be an interesting couple weeks. I for one believe the investigation should be carried out to its full extent. I also really hope that that it ends soon, regardless of the outcome.
 
Last edited:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/us/politics/trump-mueller-fired-special-counsel.html



Whelp. Who's ready for shutdown 2.0? It's going to be an interesting couple weeks. I for one believe the investigation should be carried out to its full extent. I also really hope that that it ends soon, regardless of the outcome.

Congress does not have to power to legislate who can or cannot be fired in the Executive Branch. WTF is this? Trump has every right to veto/immediately challenge the legislation in the court. What a damn cluster****.
 
Even if he's legally able to, Trump can't fire Mueller....unless he truly doesn't want to be president anymore.

They are focusing on the wrong possibilities.
 
Even if he's legally able to, Trump can't fire Mueller....unless he truly doesn't want to be president anymore.

They are focusing on the wrong possibilities.

I think we're all pretty much caught up on "firing Mueller" being shorthand for the totality of the process that would result in Mueller getting canned.
 
Congress does not have to power to legislate who can or cannot be fired in the Executive Branch. WTF is this? Trump has every right to veto/immediately challenge the legislation in the court. What a damn cluster****.

I hope trump fires Mueller, it will make it that much easier to impeach that piece of **** Trumptard.
 
I think we're all pretty much caught up on "firing Mueller" being shorthand for the totality of the process that would result in Mueller getting canned.

Perhaps the Mueller has a job for life bill is exactly what we need. BTW, who can end this madness or must Mueller just eventually decide to resign?
 
Perhaps that Mueller has a job for life. BTW, who can end this madness or must Mueller resign?

I have no idea what you're trying to communicate there.
 
I have no idea what you're trying to communicate there.

I have since edited that post. I was wondering how long Mueller can just keep investigating whatever it is that he wishes to investigate. It seems an odd job to simply snoop about to see what crimes one might uncover. Does Mueller have the final say in when he thinks that he might be done?
 
Congress does not have to power to legislate who can or cannot be fired in the Executive Branch. WTF is this? Trump has every right to veto/immediately challenge the legislation in the court. What a damn cluster****.
I know you'd like for Trump to be a dictator that is above investigation, but there was already a SCOTUS ruling on the independent counsel, and it was held up as perfectly constitutional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrison_v._Olson

Further, only the acting AG may dismiss Mueller, not Trump himself. All Trump can do is threaten the acting AG with dismissal for refusing to fire Mueller, which would create chaos at the DOJ, and be within the right of the Congress to deem abuse of presidential powers.

The other corrupt Republican, Richard Nixon, did these exact same things in Watergate, and led to him being forced from office.
 
I know you'd like for Trump to be a dictator that is above investigation, but there was already a SCOTUS ruling on the independent counsel, and it was held up as perfectly constitutional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrison_v._Olson

Further, only the acting AG may dismiss Mueller, not Trump himself. All Trump can do is threaten the acting AG with dismissal for refusing to fire Mueller, which would create chaos at the DOJ, and be within the right of the Congress to deem abuse of presidential powers.

The other corrupt Republican, Richard Nixon, did these exact same things in Watergate, and led to him being forced from office.

Not quite true. Nixon fired Archibald Cox, the special prosecutor in the Watergate scandal. That is what led to his resignation due to impending impeachment on obstruction of justice charges.
 
I have since edited that post. I was wondering how long Mueller can just keep investigating whatever it is that he wishes to investigate. It seems an odd job to simply snoop about to see what crimes one might uncover. Does Mueller have the final say in when he thinks that he might be done?

wrxg_f-maxage-0.gif
 
Perhaps the Mueller has a job for life bill is exactly what we need. BTW, who can end this madness or must Mueller just eventually decide to resign?
How is it madness? Mueller has not overreached like Starr, nor has he abused his office.

If Mueller violates his mandate in anyway, Rosenstein has the authority to fire him, otherwise the report can take as long as it needs -- as does any criminal investigation.
 
Not quite true. Nixon fired Archibald Cox, the special prosecutor in the Watergate scandal. That is what led to his impeachment on obstruction of justice charges.
Nixon didn't fire Cox, Robert Bork did the deed under threat of dismissal by Nixon.

Yes, it was absolutely Nixon's doing, but it's only the acting AG that has the actual authority, unless Trump uses an executive order to re-write DOJ rules.
 
I have since edited that post. I was wondering how long Mueller can just keep investigating whatever it is that he wishes to investigate. It seems an odd job to simply snoop about to see what crimes one might uncover. Does Mueller have the final say in when he thinks that he might be done?
It's up to Rosenstein.

End of story.
 
How is it madness? Mueller has not overreached like Starr, nor has he abused his office.

If Mueller violates his mandate in anyway, Rosenstein has the authority to fire him, otherwise the report can take as long as it needs -- as does any criminal investigation.

Could you lay out for me exactly what you think his "mandate" is? Because I read it as vaguely broad.
 
That (bolded above) is what I want to see and soon. So far, no election rigging has turned up.
The mandate is not about election fraud.
 
Could you lay out for me exactly what you think his "mandate" is? Because I read it as vaguely broad.

The mandate specifies that Mueller investigate: "any link and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with Donald Trumps campaign, and any matters that arise or may arise in the investigation."

This mandate appears to have been expanded since then, as the money laundering by Manafort and Gates was an investigation that was prior to Mueller's appointment, and was brought under his jurisdiction shortly thereafter.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/us/politics/trump-mueller-fired-special-counsel.html



Whelp. Who's ready for shutdown 2.0? It's going to be an interesting couple weeks. I for one believe the investigation should be carried out to its full extent. I also really hope that that it ends soon, regardless of the outcome.
Im fine with giving dems that in exchange for something the right wants. As long as Mueller is doing things legally and doing nothing that would get him disbarred, let him finish his investigation. I don't think anyone wants to start over with a new lead.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
Really? Then what was all of the noise about the rigged election and Russian "collusion" to aid in that?
No one to my knowledge claimed that in the FBI.

What might be the case is that people in the Trump campaign had inside knowledge within their camp has to the Kremlin's releasing of hacked material, as well their activities on social media. The Trump Tower meeting, public predictions by Stone that Podesta would be the subject of the next email dump, and George Papadopoulos admitting he was aware of Russia dumping hacked material to help the Trump campaign, all heavily imply that was the case.

Depending on how heavily they covered their knowledge, people in direct contact could be cited for violating the Federal Election Campaign Act, conspiracy, and conspiracy to violate the 'Computer Fraud and Abuse Act'.
 
Last edited:
The mandate specifies that Mueller investigate: "any link and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with Donald Trumps campaign, and any matters that arise or may arise in the investigation."

This mandate appears to have been expanded since then, as the money laundering by Manafort and Gates was an investigation that was prior to Mueller's appointment, and was brought under his jurisdiction shortly thereafter.

Ok, and the money laundering for say Manafort years and years before Trump ever thought about running for President, how's that a part of this mandate?
 
Ok, and the money laundering for say Manafort years and years before Trump ever thought about running for President, how's that a part of this mandate?

Just as Ken Starr was allowed to ask Janet Reno to expand his investigation in Whitewater to Lewinsky's dress, Mueller was allowed to ask Rosenstein to expand his into Manafort and Gates, and their money laundering and bankruptcy fraud.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2016-title28-vol2/pdf/CFR-2016-title28-vol2-part600.pdf

(b) Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel’s jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.
 
Just as Ken Starr was allowed to ask Janet Reno to expand his investigation in Whitewater to Lewinsky's dress, Mueller was allowed to ask Rosenstein to expand his into Manafort and Gates, and their money laundering and bankruptcy fraud.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2016-title28-vol2/pdf/CFR-2016-title28-vol2-part600.pdf

Yeah see, but I don't recall any such oversight by Rosenstein being reported, or news of expansion...Not that they should, or would report such, but certain leaks we know damned well are coming from the SC's office, so this over broad mandate is BS...They are allowed basically to fish until they find anything they can pin....

You wanna know what I think? I think that a cabal of those in the higher levels of DoJ, and FBI were horrified that Hillary didn't win. They tried to help her during the election with their erroneous FISA filings, and when Trump won, that meeting in "Andy's office" about the "insurance policy" went into effect. They knew damned well that Trump would probably fire Comey at some point, and that was all they needed to bring in their ringer in Muller, with his team of unethical attorneys, and Clinton/Obama donors that were all Trump haters to the core...And when their plan to use the fake dossier to pin something on him was starting to be exposed, they moved to so called "obstruction", knowing full well that doing that would cause a constitutional crisis, and betting that Trump would take the Nixon route and resign before that to save the country the pain of that...

Meanwhile Trump has outdone expectations in his first year, stocks are up like a rocket, jobs are coming back, and for the first time in over 35 years I might get some of my own money back in my account instead of going to the spenders in DC...On the foreign front, NATO members are starting to share the load, ISIS is all but defeated (something Obama couldn't do, or wouldn't do), and this week in Davos, he has pledges to bring more business here...

All that with the onslaught of liberal attack, Republican never Trumper attack, and media attack...Pretty impressive....
 
Back
Top Bottom