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Schools, how to make them better.

Ban private schools because Finland has the right idea.

  • Total voters
    33
The Mark said:
I think it's a bit of both, but definitely the management can be an issue.

I'm not sure how to address that, except perhaps standardized testing for school managers.


*evil chuckle*
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Or to get politics entirely out of the schools. That'll make your side real unhappy.
 
Cephus said:
Or to get politics entirely out of the schools. That'll make your side real unhappy.
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I'm not sure I understand, please explain.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Private schools are the least of our problems when it comes to our education system... now, dealing with dumbing down the curriculum and the over use of standardized testing is another matter.
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If not for standardized testing then grade inflation and social promotion (keeping students in "age appropriate" classes) would be even worse. When students get passing grades in math class and yet fail a standardized math test what does that tell you?
 
The Mark said:
Are you claiming that never has a school which asked for more money improved when it got that money?
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Can you make your question a little bit more of a sweeping generalization?
 
The Mark said:
I'm not sure I understand, please explain.
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A lot of the reason that schools are doing badly is because of the overt politicalization of the public school system. And who happens to be in charge of that? Who runs the teacher's unions? You figure it out.
 
Bullseye said:
Can you make your question a little bit more of a sweeping generalization?
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You said it never happened, and that's what I thought we were talking about, so it appeared you were claiming that.

Which promise were you claiming was never kept, then?
 
Cephus said:
A lot of the reason that schools are doing badly is because of the overt politicalization of the public school system. And who happens to be in charge of that? Who runs the teacher's unions? You figure it out.
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I don't know what you're referring to, actually.

I mean, I can see a few areas that MIGHT be what you're talking about, but if you could provide some examples I'd know how to respond.
 
The Mark said:
It's certainly not just private institutions that are the issue.

But I think by requiring all schools to be public, it would focus the energies of everyone on ensuring the standards of all schools improve, rather than those with the means sending their kids to schools they can which others do not have access too.
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Nope, monopolies are not better than competition - would the US be better with only one, government run, auto maker or grocery store chain? The idea that monopolies, somehow, create excellence is flat out loony.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, monopolies are not better than competition - would the US be better with only one, government run, auto maker or grocery store chain? The idea that monopolies, somehow, create excellence is flat out loony.
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Not a monopoly, just no private schools.

All the schools are public, but they differ depending on area and such.

Differ above a set minimum requirement so every child has access to a decent education.


That would eliminate all religious schools though...hmm.
 
Phys251 said:
Doesn't matter.
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It actually does. We have religious freedom enshrined in the Constitution and there is no way anyone is ever going to amend it to get rid of it. So long as it's there, private schools, especially private religious schools, will exist. So this whole question is irrelevant.
 
The Mark said:
Not a monopoly, just no private schools.

All the schools are public, but they differ depending on area and such.

Differ above a set minimum requirement so every child has access to a decent education.


That would eliminate all religious schools though...hmm.
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Your premise seems to be that the folks sending their children to private schools subtract funding (tax money) from public schools. That idea has not been supported by any facts. How, exactly, do "the rich", which are obviously a high percentage of those availing themselves of the private option, allegedly now get away with paying lower state/local school taxes?
 
Phys251 said:
One could say that that's what private schools are.
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Private schools are often recognizing just how terrible public schools are and doing something different. Yes, there are a lot of really awful private schools, especially hardline religious schools, but that's not all private schools, is it? And like I keep saying, you can't get rid of them, so why talk about it?
 
Cephus said:
Private schools are often recognizing just how terrible public schools are and doing something different. Yes, there are a lot of really awful private schools, especially hardline religious schools, but that's not all private schools, is it? And like I keep saying, you can't get rid of them, so why talk about it?
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We can't?
 
Phys251 said:
We can't?
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Not with religious freedom a part of the Constitution you can't. People have a right to raise their children however they want and educate them that way too. It's already established case law. You're not going to get it to go away.
 
The Mark said:
Not a monopoly, just no private schools.

All the schools are public, but they differ depending on area and such.

Differ above a set minimum requirement so every child has access to a decent education.


That would eliminate all religious schools though...hmm.
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Many children dont go to "school" as you would normally think now, my children included. Would you force them to attend your schools? If so you would have fight the likes you are ill equipped to handle. Unpleasant would be an understatement. The price to accomplish your vision is far higher than you think.
 
Cephus said:
Not with religious freedom a part of the Constitution you can't. People have a right to raise their children however they want and educate them that way too. It's already established case law. You're not going to get it to go away.
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But what if education is a right? If private schools can be shown to detract from the quality of public education, does that not infringe on that right?
 
Phys251 said:
But what if education is a right? If private schools can be shown to detract from the quality of public education, does that not infringe on that right?
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You'd have to show that they detract from the quality of ALL education, which you cannot do. And education is not a fundamental right, it appears in the Constitution only as part of the 14th Amendment.
 
Cephus said:
You'd have to show that they detract from the quality of ALL education, which you cannot do. And education is not a fundamental right
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It's not, eh? So it's just a privilege for those who can afford it?

it appears in the Constitution only as part of the 14th Amendment.
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Education shows up in the 14th Amendment?
 
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