RIP, American Dream

[Dittohead not!]

RIP, American Dream

The American Dream isn't dead. It's just moved to Denmark.
Now, we like to think of ourselves as a classless society, but it isn't true today. As the Brookings Institution has pointed out, America has turned into a place Horatio Alger would scarcely recognize: we have more inequality and less mobility than once-stratified Europe, particularly the Nordic countries. It's what outgoing Council of Economic Advisers chief Alan Krueger has dubbed the "Great Gatsby Curve" -- the more inequality there is, the less mobility there is. As Tim Noah put it, it's harder to climb our social ladder when the rungs are further apart.
And it's getting worse.

 

[ttwtt78640]

RIP, American Dream

Care must be taken to use income mobility rather than income disparity statistics to analyze the "American dream" if that is defined as improving your lot in life over a lifetime/generation.

Take a look at the last info I could find from the U.S. Treasury report on income mobility, produced in 2007.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf

 

[YoungConserv]

It's alive and well in Texas I'm proof of that.

 

[Helix]

We've lost a lot of rungs from the ladder, that's for sure. Is it dead? Not yet. However, chances of doing better than your parents are certainly less than they once were.

 

[ecofarm]

I think its a matter of perspective. For the average bloated, spoiled and entitled American, the dream is glamour, fortune and fame. For the average developing world person, mere arrival here is more than they dreamed possible.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

I think its a matter of perspective. For the average bloated, spoiled and entitled American, the dream is glamour, fortune and fame. For the average developing world person, mere arrival here is more than they dreamed possible.

That Americans take their life style for granted ....can't argue with that. But many agreeing with this notion quickly think of some poor welfare queen living off the government. Thats not what I think about....rather I compare the older generation mind set with today's American.

We've been through many wars ....even if an older person never wear the uniform back then they at least felt that fighting wars ...was their responsiblity. Those who din't feel that way were mostly affluent and well connected people.

Today any rat-hole neighborhood you go to you'll find most American ...many of whom always wanting the US to get into wars......really believe those wars are spectator sports!! When a guy rail and bitch about his freedom and civil rights ....and then feels that some foreigner ...not him....should go fight American war .....you know things have soured.
Cizitenery should mean more than just being born here ...there are responsibilities.....otherwise we're all really just ...anchor-babies!!

America have peaked ....our glory days are behind us ....at best we thread water but don't look for great things from this country going forward!!

And who's fault is it ....have a look in the mirror!!

 

[GottaGo]

The Dream isn't dead, it's just mutated.

Compare the ideals of the previous generation (born in the 20-30s) where being debt free, owning a decent home, a car (not two or three), and putting 3 squares on the table and people were content.

Next generation (born in the 50-60s) our parents and neighbors attempted to instill the value of working for a living, community spirit, and education. You begged, and maybe santa heard, the latest board games, roller skates and bicycles.

Next generation (born in the 70-80s) in an attempt to give their children 'more', both parents worked so the day care provider/teacher instilled the morals and values, parents kept working so the kids could have more expensive and the latest of the sneakers, toys and vacations, God forbid you told them no, the guilt would just burn you alive, and 'no child left behind' type thinking erodes the quality of the primary education.

We haven't done this generation any favors. The Dream is still alive, but now it's all about the accessories rather than the values.

 

[Dittohead not!]

The Dream isn't dead, it's just mutated.

Compare the ideals of the previous generation (born in the 20-30s) where being debt free, owning a decent home, a car (not two or three), and putting 3 squares on the table and people were content.

Next generation (born in the 50-60s) our parents and neighbors attempted to instill the value of working for a living, community spirit, and education. You begged, and maybe santa heard, the latest board games, roller skates and bicycles.

Next generation (born in the 70-80s) in an attempt to give their children 'more', both parents worked so the day care provider/teacher instilled the morals and values, parents kept working so the kids could have more expensive and the latest of the sneakers, toys and vacations, God forbid you told them no, the guilt would just burn you alive, and 'no child left behind' type thinking erodes the quality of the primary education.

We haven't done this generation any favors. The Dream is still alive, but now it's all about the accessories rather than the values.

You skipped my generation (born in the '40s), but I think what you said about '50s, '60s applies there, too.

and, then this generation, born say 90s or so, can't find jobs even with a college degree, wind up moving home with mom and dad, don't marry, don't start careers until late in life if at all.

I think the hurdle my generation had was Vietnam. Our choices from about '65='75 were quite clear: Go to war, go to Canada, or go to jail. This generation's is finding a job that pays the bills.

Perhaps another difference is that my generation, and my parent's generation, were willing to start at the bottom and work up. Today, not so much.

 

[GottaGo]

You skipped my generation (born in the '40s), but I think what you said about '50s, '60s applies there, too.

and, then this generation, born say 90s or so, can't find jobs even with a college degree, wind up moving home with mom and dad, don't marry, don't start careers until late in life if at all.

I think the hurdle my generation had was Vietnam. Our choices from about '65='75 were quite clear: Go to war, go to Canada, or go to jail. This generation's is finding a job that pays the bills.

Perhaps another difference is that my generation, and my parent's generation, were willing to start at the bottom and work up. Today, not so much.

No slight intended . I was writing based on my parents generation, my generation, and if I had kids, the generation that they would have been in. Geez, yer old. :mrgreen:

100% agree, not only starting at the bottom, but without all the bells and whistles. Other than the very wealthy, who in our generations were given a house for a wedding present? Cars for graduation? Don't know about you, but I was 4 years old when my first car was built. Emptied my savings account for it. Every time I washed it, the paint came off, and during the warm months it got engine vapor lock. It seems nothing less than brand spanking new will do for the current graduates.

 

[Oceandan]

Hmmm let's see, we've run off business with taxation, regulation and litigation, so there aren't jobs. We're starting to run off "rich people" so there's no private sector investing. We tax savings, capital gains, investments and passive income at a higher rate so we have no private sector "wealth". We've created a dependency on government so we have no one wanting to work and lose the freebies. We've dumbed down our education system to the point letter grades are not allowed. We provide impetus to spend and live beyond your means with program after program, most subsidized by the keynesian proponents in the federal government. The federal government has created a 17 TRILLION dollar national debt that will be impossible to reduce, let alone eliminate. Baby boomers are hitting retirement age and will continue to over the next 15 years, this will be an enormous cost increase for medicare/medicaid and social security benefits. We have had over a trillion dollar deficit for the past five years, and now current administration boasts because it's going to go down to 800 billion. As if that's GOOD news. We're about to see the train wreck known as obamacare, simply DESTROY our health care delivery. We have PETA but continue to kill over 300 THOUSAND babies a year. And we are about to increase our population by 15-20 million people all with a bribing of a few in Congress. We have the federal reserve creating out of thin air 85 BILLION a month and pumping it into toxic mortgage paper and the stock market, all the while denying it's crashing the value of our dollars.

How could the future NOT be bright???

 

[Dittohead not!]

No slight intended . I was writing based on my parents generation, my generation, and if I had kids, the generation that they would have been in. Geez, yer old. :mrgreen:

100% agree, not only starting at the bottom, but without all the bells and whistles. Other than the very wealthy, who in our generations were given a house for a wedding present? Cars for graduation? Don't know about you, but I was 4 years old when my first car was built. Emptied my savings account for it. Every time I washed it, the paint came off, and during the warm months it got engine vapor lock. It seems nothing less than brand spanking new will do for the current graduates.

Yes, I'm old, no doubt about it.

There actually were people from my generation who got way more than they could handle. I remember a boy in my graduating class who was given a new Corvette. I was quite envious, especially since my wheels were my dad's '51 International Pickup I was occasionally allowed to drive.

I got my first car when I could pay for it, a '57 Ford in 1966.

Oh, the kid with the Corvette? He wound up marrying his step mom.

There really is such a thing as giving kids too much before they've earned it.

Still, it's a lot harder for young people to earn a decent living than it once was, at least in America.