Repeal the 16th Amendment? (income tax)

[John]

Should we not only abolish the Income Tax, but make it impossible to have it come back?

Please take a look at the options and state what you think.

The Fair Tax - In short: National Sales tax on all NEW goods and services purchased by consumers; advanced refund of all taxes paid up to poverty level for residents. Administrated by state, no IRS audits or filing, No deductions for anyone.

National Flat Tax - Sales tax applied to goods & services

Value Added Tax - "sales" tax added everytime a product changes from one person to another

I ask this because I think because I feel our current system is completely corrupt and unsalvageble, primarily due to the fact that neither side can trust their or the other sides politicians to actually "Fix" it without putting in their own rules on how they believe it should operate.

I used to be for a flat tax; but I don't want to see the poor suffer as they would under it, and then need additional social programs to compensate. Why not let them keep their money to begin with?

The Fair Tax has some rules, but I feel is the simplist tax plan that will accomplish the most good, remain difficult to manipulate, protect the lowest earner, and apply the same rules to everyone. No more financial discrimination.

Please feel free to express thoughts and ideas. I'm looking for solutions; not arguements.

 

[beerftw]

Should we not only abolish the Income Tax, but make it impossible to have it come back?

Please take a look at the options and state what you think.

The Fair Tax - In short: National Sales tax on all NEW goods and services purchased by consumers; advanced refund of all taxes paid up to poverty level for residents. Administrated by state, no IRS audits or filing, No deductions for anyone.

National Flat Tax - Sales tax applied to goods & services

Value Added Tax - "sales" tax added everytime a product changes from one person to another

I ask this because I think because I feel our current system is completely corrupt and unsalvageble, primarily due to the fact that neither side can trust their or the other sides politicians to actually "Fix" it without putting in their own rules on how they believe it should operate.

I used to be for a flat tax; but I don't want to see the poor suffer as they would under it, and then need additional social programs to compensate. Why not let them keep their money to begin with?

The Fair Tax has some rules, but I feel is the simplist tax plan that will accomplish the most good, remain difficult to manipulate, protect the lowest earner, and apply the same rules to everyone. No more financial discrimination.

Please feel free to express thoughts and ideas. I'm looking for solutions; not arguements.

actually a national flat tax would work great so long as they tax whats luxory and not whats needed,it wouldnt hurt the poor at all.

 

[jamesrage]

Repeal and replace with National "Sales Tax". This ensures that everyone actually pays their fair share while at the same time ensuring that those who buy little pay little and those who buy a lot pay alot.

 

[specklebang]

IMHO the current tax system works well enough in principle. The problem is the hundreds of thousands modifications and exemptions. It's actually impossible to obtain a copy of "The U.S. Tax Code".

A graduated system is an excellent platform. Say 10%, 20%, 30%. This would make sense and work perfectly if there were absolutely no deductions with 2 and only 2 exceptions. You could deduct the first $12,000 of mortgage interest and you could deduct 100% of charitable contributions made to legitimate, established social welfare services (such as Salvation Army). This would apply to all income in all forms. The tax code would be about 10 pages.

The way it is now, is so corrupt and so complex and so loved by the Real Owners© of America, you'll never see it change. It will be modified by every bill tat pases Congress to benefit the best lobbyists.

 

[John]

actually a national flat tax would work great so long as they tax whats luxory and not whats needed,it wouldnt hurt the poor at all.

ok... what's a luxury? Eating more food than you need to sustain yourself is, by definition a luxury.
Cable TV might be considering a luxury. Maybe Cell phones? Magazines? Newspapers? Viagra? birth control pills? Condoms? Baby formula? 3 bedroom apartment vs studio?
I’m not trying to pick on you, but the definition of “Luxury” is so subjective, that it is far too easy to manipulate. This is one of the reasons I believe we ended up here in the first place with the income tax. This is special, that isn’t. Here we need a special rule for, and over here one against. With The Fair Tax it treats all things equal, Items are taxed once. When first purchased. Every resident is given the purview to decide what their necessities are and what their luxuries are.

 

[ChuckBerry]

Increase the capital gains tax.

 

[Centinel]

I prefer sales taxes, as they are easier to administer and don't require the same invasions of privacy required to administer income taxes.

 

[John]

Increase the capital gains tax.

Why?

Why not tax what people buy, and refund the amount already established as needed? No messy forms, no need to hire a tax accountant. Just buy what you need and you're done.

 

[lizzie]

I could easily go for that idea, and would probably be inclined toward a consumption tax of some type. This would be an incentive toward saving and monetary responsibility which so many people don't have a decent grasp on. It would also place many more people in the position of having skin in the game, therefore encouraging a more thoughtful voting process, rather than the highly emotional process we now see.

 

[samsmart]

Should we not only abolish the Income Tax, but make it impossible to have it come back?

Please take a look at the options and state what you think.

The Fair Tax - In short: National Sales tax on all NEW goods and services purchased by consumers; advanced refund of all taxes paid up to poverty level for residents. Administrated by state, no IRS audits or filing, No deductions for anyone.

National Flat Tax - Sales tax applied to goods & services

Value Added Tax - "sales" tax added everytime a product changes from one person to another

I ask this because I think because I feel our current system is completely corrupt and unsalvageble, primarily due to the fact that neither side can trust their or the other sides politicians to actually "Fix" it without putting in their own rules on how they believe it should operate.

I used to be for a flat tax; but I don't want to see the poor suffer as they would under it, and then need additional social programs to compensate. Why not let them keep their money to begin with?

The Fair Tax has some rules, but I feel is the simplist tax plan that will accomplish the most good, remain difficult to manipulate, protect the lowest earner, and apply the same rules to everyone. No more financial discrimination.

Please feel free to express thoughts and ideas. I'm looking for solutions; not arguements.

I voted for "Other."

Keep the income tax, though some reform is needed.

 

[TurtleDude]

I prefer sales taxes, as they are easier to administer and don't require the same invasions of privacy required to administer income taxes.

A sales tax eliminates the power congress has created for itself with the idiotic Progressive income tax

it also prevents congress from pandering to the many by promising them all sorts of goodies paid for by tax increases on the few

 

[Centinel]

A sales tax eliminates the power congress has created for itself with the idiotic Progressive income tax

it also prevents congress from pandering to the many by promising them all sorts of goodies paid for by tax increases on the few

Agreed, those are additional benefits of eliminating the income tax.

 

[TurtleDude]

Agreed, those are additional benefits of eliminating the income tax.

1) compliance costs are huge. People like me spend thousands of dollars on tax preparation. Its worth it to avoid audits

2) millions of hours are wasted by ordinary individuals

3) the income tax punishes thrift and savings

4) the income tax has grown the size of government tremendously

 

[Centinel]

1) compliance costs are huge. People like me spend thousands of dollars on tax preparation. Its worth it to avoid audits

2) millions of hours are wasted by ordinary individuals

3) the income tax punishes thrift and savings

4) the income tax has grown the size of government tremendously

Absolutely. It is bad juju indeed.

 

[Your Star]

I voted for "Other."

Keep the income tax, though some reform is needed.

This.
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[haymarket]

Why?

Why not tax what people buy, and refund the amount already established as needed? No messy forms, no need to hire a tax accountant. Just buy what you need and you're done.

People buy stocks. People sell stocks. If you are fortunate, you increase the value and get a gain. A capital gains tax does indeed do just what you advocate - it places a tax on what people buy.

So are you advocating a 6%, 7% , 10% national tax on the buying and sale of stocks?

 

[TurtleDude]

This.
.....

reforms needed would be to prevent the many from being seduced by pimps in office promising more goodies that OTHERS have to pay for

 

[Your Star]

reforms needed would be to prevent the many from being seduced by pimps in office promising more goodies that OTHERS have to pay for

Then wouldn't you say that reforms would be needed to stop people being seduced by the pimps in office promising to lessen peoples taxes, by taking the money away from programs that don't help them?

 

[TurtleDude]

Then wouldn't you say that reforms would be needed to stop people being seduced by the pimps in office promising to lessen peoples taxes, by taking the money away from programs that don't help them?

now that is silly. There is a big difference between buying votes by taking from those who own and earned property to gain the support of those who don't and didn't with merely gaining support by telling the earners and owners that if elected, these politicians won't steal as much from the productive

 

[99percenter]

I dont agree with the sales tax. Its a regressive tax. Lower income folks would have a higher tax burden.

 

[Your Star]

now that is silly. There is a big difference between buying votes by taking from those who own and earned property to gain the support of those who don't and didn't with merely gaining support by telling the earners and owners that if elected, these politicians won't steal as much from the productive

It's just as silly as your premise. Isn't it logical that if people can be bought for things that benefit them, then rich people can be as well, so can corporations. And they can use millions of dollars in order to support such candidate, which is very powerful.

 

[TurtleDude]

I dont agree with the sales tax. Its a regressive tax. Lower income folks would have a higher tax burden.

not if essentials were exempt from tax which is in every plan I have seen

but it will keep the poor from voting for pimps who promise more government.

 

[TurtleDude]

It's just as silly as your premise. Isn't it logical that if people can be bought for things that benefit them, then rich people can be as well, so can corporations. And they can use millions of dollars in order to support such candidate, which is very powerful.

you seem to think keeping what you own is the same as being given the property of others. I realize that is consistent with the socialist premise that all wealth belongs to the state but those of us who reject that idiocy don't buy that argument.


affirmative confiscation of property is very different than leaving people alone. its that non coercion thing the left hates

 

[rocket88]

not if essentials were exempt from tax which is in every plan I have seen

but it will keep the poor from voting for pimps who promise more government.

But what is necessary?

Technically, it's not necessary to eat 3 meals every day. You won't die. So is every bit of food that is more than what is necessary to stay alive taxable?

Clothes are a necessity, but it's not necessary to buy your clothes pre-sewn. So fabric and thread are non-taxable, but a pair of pants is?

 

[Your Star]

you seem to think keeping what you own is the same as being given the property of others. I realize that is consistent with the socialist premise that all wealth belongs to the state but those of us who reject that idiocy don't buy that argument.


affirmative confiscation of property is very different than leaving people alone. its that non coercion thing the left hates

Um, I'm not a socialist, and I never said that I think that all property belongs to the state. My argument is based around your logic. And your logic states that if a politician promises poor people more social programs to help their lives that they will vote for said politician. All I'm saying is that if that applies, then if lets say an agricultural company uses funds to support a politician who will lower their taxes by taking the funds away from lets say the food stamp program. But they would not if they promised to lower their taxes, and take away funding from an agricultural subsidy which benefits them more than the proposed tax decrease.

If you want to accept the premise you have been spouting out for years here at DP, then you have to accept the one I just posted, since it uses your logic.