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Religion Simplified

RAMOSS said:
Then, in addiction to the straw man, and the shifting of burden of proof, you are deign what is known as 'moving goal posts'. It's pretty sad, and the frantic way the argument is being made is very telling. Too bad for you that , indeed that information is available.
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Nope. Somebody may have switched the body / dna samples. Or, the chain of custody of those samples was not secure.

You have Nothing. How do you like it?
 
Logicman said:
Nope. Somebody may have switched the body / dna samples. Or, the chain of custody of those samples was not secure.

You have Nothing. How do you like it?
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Prove it.
 
Logicman said:
You prove it was all legit and conducted properly. That's your so-called evidence you're required to defend.
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Lol. I love how you shift goal posts, and then keep on demanding evidence trying to raise the bar set against you, while avoiding showing even the basics for your own claims. It shows the arguments you are attempting to promote are null and void.
 
soylentgreen said:
If the bible could be reduced to four words they would be, " Because I said so"
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Wrong...it would be "Because I know what is best for my creation"...
 
RAMOSS said:
Lol. I love how you shift goal posts, and then keep on demanding evidence trying to raise the bar...
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Those are your tricks, and have been for years. I was just giving you a demonstration of what you skeptics put out on a daily basis.
 
Logicman said:
Those are your tricks, and have been for years. I was just giving you a demonstration of what you skeptics put out on a daily basis.
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Nah , that isn't that case. The fact of the matter is that you can't support your own claims, so when another claim is actually supported, you attempt to move goal posts.

Or, you try to make someone support a claim they did not make.

That shows a weak original claim on your part.
 
The supernatural claims of organized religion are germaine but not functionally relevant to the function of religion, which is to bind people to a specific authority while discouraging them from forming alternative bonds or loyalties. In other words, the various meta-narratives (Hercules/Melqart performed heroic tasks, Dionysus liberates unto death, Jesus died for your sins, Muhammad heard the final revelation, Joseph Smith was given a new revelation,etc) can and do vary wildly, but their function is the same: to capture and hold fidelity by way of active, ongoing mythopoesis.

It's not important if Jesus could perform miracles, was born or adopted as a god, or even existed. What's important is that believers stay believing, because their loyalty provides material benefit and power to the arbiters of those metanarratives.

Unbelievers fall into a stupid trap, debating the validity of supernatural stories. They aren't accounts of fact. They are epistemic filters, shaping real events into the ongoing myth stories, and binding their users to the power that controls them.
 
Rich2018 said:
Where/when in the Bible ?
(not that the contents of the Bible is evidence)

Where/when since the days of the Bible ?
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Hebrews 11 mentions a few...Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sarah, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, as well as Samuel and the other prophets....verses 33-35 tells us...

"Through faith they defeated kingdoms, brought about righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the force of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from a weak state were made powerful, became mighty in war, routed invading armies. Women received their dead by resurrection..."

And all the ones who have lived and are living with Jehovah's guidance today, me being one of them...
 
Rich2018 said:
Like the Amish community in Pennsylvania ?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Shocking documentary exposes incest and abuse in Amish community

'Sins of the Amish' follows four women from different Amish backgrounds as they share their personal stories of sexual abuse and search for justice.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk


Or Catholic priests abusing children under their care:

www.dailymail.co.uk

Child sex abuse allegations in the Catholic Church doubled in 2018

During the period from July 1, 2017, to June 30, 2018, 1,385 adults came forward with 1,455 allegations of abuse, according to the annual report of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops'.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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www.collegian.psu.edu

Former local, nationwide Jehovah’s Witnesses find child sex abuse ‘swept under the rug’

When Pennsylvania native Kahley Groff, a former Jehovah’s Witness, came forward about the sexual abuse she endured as a child at Yorkanna Kingdom Hall, she had “hoped” elders and other
www.collegian.psu.edu www.collegian.psu.edu
 
Elora said:
Hebrews 11 mentions a few...Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sarah, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, as well as Samuel and the other prophets....verses 33-35 tells us...

"Through faith they defeated kingdoms, brought about righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the force of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from a weak state were made powerful, became mighty in war, routed invading armies. Women received their dead by resurrection..."

And all the ones who have lived and are living with Jehovah's guidance today, me being one of them...
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So because the Bible gives the names of multiple paradigms of virtue, we are just to accept the stories about them ?
Sorry, the Bible is proof of nothing - you missed out Mohammed Btw, or do you not consider him a prophet ?

And no, no kingdom was ever defeated by "faith"

And where are you post Biblical times proofs ?
 
Gordy327 said:
No, I demanded evidence for YOUR CLAIM regarding Jesus. Instead of providing evidence, you cowardly dodged the challenge by throwing back a challenge to a claim I never made. Such debate tactics only demonstrates your dishonesty and inability to answer the challenge to your claim, which also shreds any credibility you may have had.

Failure in logic too.

Not to mention a shifting the burden of proof fallacy.

Nailed it! I wonder what his Jesus friend would think about that?
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Provide for us proof YOU exist
 
Logicman said:
Show me the conclusive DNA evidence that's really Tutankhamun instead of someone else they entombed for whatever reason?

See, you think you've made your case. But what I threw back at you is the same kind of thing we constantly get from you, Somerville, Gordy, bomberfox, and that gang of Christ-denying groupies.

So you guys have NOTHING but half-baked hysteria.
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Why ? I made absolutely ZERO claims about that individual. So I do not incur any burden of proof. Your desperation and intellectual dishonesty is really showing and I'm clearly not the only one here who sees it.
 
Gordy327 said:
Why ? I made absolutely ZERO claims about that individual. So I do not incur any burden of proof. Your desperation and intellectual dishonesty is really showing and I'm clearly not the only one here who sees it.
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Well, let's review what you did that you're now denying. From Post # 336 (link below):

Look folks - Gordy wants EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE for Jesus and/or the Gospel accounts.

1. He can't define the scientific criteria used in gaining empirical evidence on a 2,000 year old individual.

2. When challenged, Gordy could not cite a single individual from antiquity that ANYONE (scientist or history scholar, etc.) has ever obtained empirical evidence on.

3. Gordy cannot provide empirical evidence himself for anyone from antiquity.

4. Gordy is demanding something from Christians that even secularists cannot come up with.

5. Gordy doesn't require that same empirical evidence from other individuals in ancient history (i.e. 1. Hippocrates 2. Attila the Hun 3. Archimedes of Syracuse 4. Confucius 5. Hannibal etc.) in his history books. Thus, Gordy needs to burn his college history books and demand history professors, etc., do the same.

6. Gordy has a double standard.

7. Gordy thus has zero credibility demanding empirical evidence for anyone from antiquity. It's an absolute farce.

Post #336 in Debate Politics - https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...-historical-event-ever.478343/post-1075788294
 
Somerville said:
Does this silly meme remind you of anyone?

View attachment 67393688
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It does, but these memes often miss the real point.

The arguments that we tend to have around here are some terrible hybrid of oversimplified ontological arguments mixed with what you point out in suggesting the inverse of proving something. Well, prove it doesn't becomes a natural defense.

It is also the disagreement that will never be solved in that context, the meme also points out that systems of science are incompatible with systems of belief. The basis for how one gets to a conclusion from an idea is adversarial. You cannot cherry-pick from one or the other ideology to blend some argument despite how hard some try to do so, the inherent failure is the conclusions in that meme.

And they should be adversarial. Science tends to be based on question, doubt, observation, evaluation, repetition, refinement all over a very long timeframe. Trying to obtain new understandings does not have a limit, and does not stop. Religion tends to be the exact opposite, certainty from belief that is beyond question.

That collision is the basis for every single argument we have in this area of the forums.
 
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