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Religion of Peace?

Should anyone coming to the U.S. HAVE to know english?

  • Hell yes! It's about time....

    Votes: 19 48.7%

  • Hell no! Let 'em all in like roachs.

    Votes: 4 10.3%

  • Who care's they should retain as much of their homland as they can.

    Votes: 12 30.8%

  • Close the doors & start sending some back.

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • Total voters
    39
The bottom line is that Islam is NOT a religion of peace in any way shape way or form.
 
tr1414 said:
Only in the mind of a liberal is what I said a retraction. Liberals love the head-choppers. Liberals HATE America. Muslems HATE everyone.
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So...still no proof? That's what I thought.
 
Read the start of this thread. Read the newspapers. Open your eyes. Maybe I'm asking too much.
 
That's funny. I had a nice conversation with a Muslim today who didn't seem to mind my prescence at all.
 
tr1414 said:
lol..... YOU would.
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I would what? Talk to someone you percieve as your enemy when in fact he is an American just as you or I and faces the same threats as you or I? Yes. Yes, I would.

If you want to shut your eyes as to this as a people problem and make it a theological battle, I think you will find yourself in a war that will never end.
 
Did you get this crap from faith freedom? I mean this looks like some of the stupid crap that guy does.
Qur'an 8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah. So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (non-Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."
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Fitnah does not mean non-Muslims, it means tribulation. How lame that Christians have to lower themselves to lies because of their fear that Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world. I'm glad the Christians I know actually practice their faith and aren't as vindictive as you are. You are no better than bin Laden with your ways of hate.
 
Salah ud Deen said:
Did you get this crap from faith freedom? I mean this looks like some of the stupid crap that guy does.
Fitnah does not mean non-Muslims, it means tribulation. How lame that Christians have to lower themselves to lies because of their fear that Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world. I'm glad the Christians I know actually practice their faith and aren't as vindictive as you are. You are no better than bin Laden with your ways of hate.
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I gave you chapter & verse of where in the Qur'an the quotes come form but I guess it's still not enough for some of you. I'm vindictive? After 9/11, YOU BET YOUR ASS, I'M VINDICTIVE! But I'm also quoting the Qur'an. Try READING it before you decide that Christians have to "lower themselves because we fear Islam." Give me a break. I said it before & I'll say it again. Religion of peace ... MY ASS!
 
The Bible is in no way less violent or less peaceful than the Holy Quran.
 
Hey hippy.... the only people I see blowing themselfs up in order to kill others are MUSLIMS.
 
tr1414 said:
I gave you chapter & verse of where in the Qur'an the quotes come form but I guess it's still not enough for some of you. I'm vindictive? After 9/11, YOU BET YOUR ASS, I'M VINDICTIVE! But I'm also quoting the Qur'an. Try READING it before you decide that Christians have to "lower themselves because we fear Islam." Give me a break. I said it before & I'll say it again. Religion of peace ... MY ASS!
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So because 19 fanatics carried out 911 the entire Islamic faith is guilty? Is that your vision for America justice? Condemn every Muslim for the actions of a few? If Islam was truely they way you say it is, the war would already be over and you would be speaking Arabic. An army of 500+ million suicide bombers would not be able to be stopped. Oh, and I have read the Qur'an, cover to cover several times. Have you bothered to read your own book cover to cover?
 
unknown translation said:
Qur'an 8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah. So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (non-Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."
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Yusef Ali translation said:
Qur'an 8:39 "And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do!"
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If they cease from fighting and from the persecution of truth, Allah judges them by their actions and their motives, and would not wish that they should be harassed with further hostility. But if they refuse all terms, the righteous have nothing to fear: Allah will help and protect them. - YA

So I see why you are so confused tr1515, you are reading a very poor if not intentionally mistranslated version of the Qur'an. If you like I will send you a copy of the Yusef Ali translation so you can have a good copy. You can consider it an offering of peace between people.
 
tr1414 said:
Hey hippy.... the only people I see blowing themselfs up in order to kill others are MUSLIMS.
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Find me in the Quran where it says to do such a thing.
 
Salah ud Deen said:
If they cease from fighting and from the persecution of truth, Allah judges them by their actions and their motives, and would not wish that they should be harassed with further hostility. But if they refuse all terms, the righteous have nothing to fear: Allah will help and protect them. - YA

So I see why you are so confused tr1515, you are reading a very poor if not intentionally mistranslated version of the Qur'an. If you like I will send you a copy of the Yusef Ali translation so you can have a good copy. You can consider it an offering of peace between people.
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Thanks but I've read enough to know that Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Anywhere you look on Earth it's MUSLIMS fighting with their neighbors. I don't see anyone else in such a rush to kill themselves & others. I live in Brooklyn, NY. I see Muslims every day I'm here to tell you that most HATE America & Americans. Yet they are here. Just like the 19 Saudis were here before 9/11. I don't know what it will take to close to borders to those that will harm us.
 
tr1414 said:
Thanks but I've read enough to know that Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Anywhere you look on Earth it's MUSLIMS fighting with their neighbors. I don't see anyone else in such a rush to kill themselves & others. I live in Brooklyn, NY. I see Muslims every day I'm here to tell you that most HATE America & Americans. Yet they are here. Just like the 19 Saudis were here before 9/11. I don't know what it will take to close to borders to those that will harm us.
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And how is it that you treat these men that all hate you?
 
Salah ud Deen said:
Did you get this crap from faith freedom? I mean this looks like some of the stupid crap that guy does.
Fitnah does not mean non-Muslims, it means tribulation. How lame that Christians have to lower themselves to lies because of their fear that Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world. I'm glad the Christians I know actually practice their faith and aren't as vindictive as you are. You are no better than bin Laden with your ways of hate.
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What exactly, according to Islam...is bin Laden doing wrong?

I know that certain passages in the Koran are peaceful, but overall and making all things equal, it seems to me that according to Islam he is well within the fold.

I have read the Koran and most of the more peaceful elements that Muslims quote are at the beginning chapters of the book. As the chapters move on and the realization that Jews and Christians were not going to come into the fold....things begin to take a turn for the worse. Muhammad is rejected by these Jews and Christians who do not look upon him kindly. In some instances there seems to be an unknown question asked and then a response in the Koran for the question. I don't recall specific examples of this because it's been awhile since I read it, but if you have read it several times I'm sure you know what I mean by this.
 
mike49 said:
What exactly, according to Islam...is bin Laden doing wrong?
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He is murdering people by the thousands.

I know that certain passages in the Koran are peaceful, but overall and making all things equal, it seems to me that according to Islam he is well within the fold.
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He is an extremist. He is the equivalent of renegade forms of Christianity that take a literalist perspective in it's interpretation. He is as "within the fold" as Eric Rudolph.

I have read the Koran and most of the more peaceful elements that Muslims quote are at the beginning chapters of the book. As the chapters move on and the realization that Jews and Christians were not going to come into the fold....things begin to take a turn for the worse. Muhammad is rejected by these Jews and Christians who do not look upon him kindly. In some instances there seems to be an unknown question asked and then a response in the Koran for the question. I don't recall specific examples of this because it's been awhile since I read it, but if you have read it several times I'm sure you know what I mean by this.
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It's important to understand how the Quran was written. Half was written in Mecca and the other hald in Medina. The parts written in Mecca are very deep and beautiful spiritual writtings; however, it is from this particular outsider's perspective that Muhammed lost his damn mind in Medina.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
He is murdering people by the thousands.



He is an extremist. He is the equivalent of renegade forms of Christianity that take a literalist perspective in it's interpretation. He is as "within the fold" as Eric Rudolph.



It's important to understand how the Quran was written. Half was written in Mecca and the other hald in Medina. The parts written in Mecca are very deep and beautiful spiritual writtings; however, it is from this particular outsider's perspective that Muhammed lost his damn mind in Medina.
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I've figured out how it was written, and I did study and read the book. I would disagree with your description of deep and spiritual and beautiful, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Reading the Koran alone...it is hard to find the "religion" in it, the hadith provides the 'meat and potatoes' of this religion, and that is where we find substance and understanding of the Koran itself. How it was practiced in real life versus a text book Koran. The 'Sunnah' life of the prophet, the "perfect life" as described by muslims. We learn what a perfect life is.

A literalist is not someone to argue with in the sense that Islam prides itself on not changing. And, by you saying "Literalist" means you are aware of what is the very basis of Islam and bin Laden is following that religion very well indeed. If Islam is the correct religion than bin Laden has secured his place in Paradise. And he will be greeted by the 9-11 hi-jackers when he arrives.
 
mike49 said:
I've figured out how it was written, and I did study and read the book. I would disagree with your description of deep and spiritual and beautiful, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Reading the Koran alone...it is hard to find the "religion" in it, the hadith provides the 'meat and potatoes' of this religion, and that is where we find substance and understanding of the Koran itself. How it was practiced in real life versus a text book Koran. The 'Sunnah' life of the prophet, the "perfect life" as described by muslims. We learn what a perfect life is.

A literalist is not someone to argue with in the sense that Islam prides itself on not changing. And, by you saying "Literalist" means you are aware of what is the very basis of Islam and bin Laden is following that religion very well indeed. If Islam is the correct religion than bin Laden has secured his place in Paradise. And he will be greeted by the 9-11 hi-jackers when he arrives.
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I think you are combining "literalist" with "fundamentalist". I've spoken to Islamic "fundamentalists", and none have approved of bin Laden's actions.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
I think you are combining "literalist" with "fundamentalist". I've spoken to Islamic "fundamentalists", and none have approved of bin Laden's actions.
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What is your definition of a "fundamentalist"?
 
mike49 said:
What is your definition of a "fundamentalist"?
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Fundamentalist believes that the doctrine that they hold to should not be changed or comprimised in anyway.

Literalist means that they take their text in a literal sense.

I would wager that you could take the most horrific verses of the Quran and hold them next to the most horrific verses of the Christian Bible and you find them to be equally brutal though at the same time you would miss the meaning of both texts that are taken to be sacred.
 
Those that don't know history will be condomed to repeat it.
 
tr1414 said:
Those that don't know history will be condomed to repeat it.
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What part of history do you feel that someone is not acknowledging?
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Fundamentalist believes that the doctrine that they hold to should not be changed or comprimised in anyway.

Literalist means that they take their text in a literal sense.

I would wager that you could take the most horrific verses of the Quran and hold them next to the most horrific verses of the Christian Bible and you find them to be equally brutal though at the same time you would miss the meaning of both texts that are taken to be sacred.
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I kind of agree. I also miss the secret "meaning" you ascribe to the sacred texts.

What is a different interpretation of Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.” or Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.” or Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.” or Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.” ?



Exactly how many other interpretations of the word "kill" do you have other than the meaning of the word kill? Kill is not love it is just death and destruction. Thats it.



I have read the bible dozens of times, The Koran three times and im working myself up to read the Torah. I have a feeling it will be the same bs as in the other two. Religion sucks and is just an excuse to not take self responsibility for ones own actions. We are a sad little world and tearing ourselves apart for little or no reason. There are plenty of resources to go around if they were managed correctly.
If we got on the same page we should not have a problem feeding and educating(not madrassas) children,we should all be busy exploring science, math and philosophy. We should be funding medical and alternative energy research on massive scales, etc.
Perhaps a one world government is a good idea. The communication infrastructure is nearly there to support such a thing. Maybe someday but not anytime soon as long as Moses is busy declaring the philistines the enemy of the people of God and Allah is responding in kind. As long as there can be no peace between two ancient peoples we will all remain puppets on the strings of war.
 
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