Rape & abortion

[doughgirl]

"because certainly the conscious ability to feel is not even PHYSICALLY possible until the end of the 26th week of pregnancy"

My neice was born at 21 1/2 weeks and lived and is now 13 years old. You are telling me that she couldn't feel pain? yea right



H.R. 356 Bill 109th Congress First Session

The bill would require that abortion providers give women seeking abortions after 20 weeks ... certain basic information on the substantial evidence that their unborn children may experience pain while being aborted." The bill claims that "20 weeks after fertilization, an unborn child has the physical structures necessary to experience pain."

Source: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:h356ih.txt.pdf



1994 British study startled the world with its finding that a painful procedure performed on an unborn baby as young as 18 weeks triggers a massive release of stress-related hormones - - just as it does in an adult. Dr. Vivette Glover, an English fetal pain researcher, told the BBC in 2000 that "between 17 and 26 weeks it is increasingly possible that it [the unborn] starts to feel something . . . I think the evidence is that the system is starting to form by 20 weeks, maybe by 17 weeks." The latest research has focused on internal pain chemicals called Enkephlin and Substance P, which have been detected in the fetal brain at 13 and 11 weeks, respectively.

By 1999 this had been updated in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology with the following statement: "Given the anatomical evidence, it is possible that the fetus can feel pain from 20 weeks and is caused distress by interventions from as early as 15 or 16 weeks."


Source: http://www.nrlc.org/news/2004/NRL04/a_pain_too_awful_to_imagine.htm

 

[steen]

"because certainly the conscious ability to feel is not even PHYSICALLY possible until the end of the 26th week of pregnancy"

My neice was born at 21 1/2 weeks and lived and is now 13 years old. You are telling me that she couldn't feel pain?

She could not feel pain at birth, that is right.

H.R. 356 Bill 109th Congress First Session

The bill would require that abortion providers give women seeking abortions after 20 weeks ... certain basic information on the substantial evidence that their unborn children may experience pain while being aborted." The bill claims that "20 weeks after fertilization, an unborn child has the physical structures necessary to experience pain."

And this POLITICAL document is flat-out wrong. The physical connections are not even there for another month, and it then takes a month or more before the brain's cortex starts interpreting signals in a meaningful way.

So yes, the prolife lies are STILL LIES!

1994 British study startled the world with its finding that a painful procedure performed on an unborn baby as young as 18 weeks triggers a massive release of stress-related hormones - - just as it does in an adult.

Yes, and even in adults during surgery under full anesthesia. Guess anesthesia is worthless because people must feel everything during surgery, right? Or are you just uncritically re-posting blabbering nonsense from the prolife pro-lie propaganda pages?

Dr. Vivette Glover, an English fetal pain researcher, told the BBC in 2000 that "between 17 and 26 weeks it is increasingly possible that it [the unborn] starts to feel something . . . I think the evidence is that the system is starting to form by 20 weeks, maybe by 17 weeks." The latest research has focused on internal pain chemicals called Enkephlin and Substance P, which have been detected in the fetal brain at 13 and 11 weeks, respectively.

And she has been shown to a be a prolifer with a political agenda, prostituting scientific integrity for political expediency. Nice going there, using dishonest prolife liar scum as "evidence." Go look at the science instead.

By 1999 this had been updated in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology with the following statement: "Given the anatomical evidence, it is possible that the fetus can feel pain from 20 weeks and is caused distress by interventions from as early as 15 or 16 weeks."

And by now, the factual info is 31-32 weeks. case closed.

Source: http://www.nrlc.org/......

Yeah, another prolie source. Please document the claim regarding the BJOG.

 

[doughgirl]

Caine says, “Hrmm... Okay.... Lets force women to have children they don't want, so thousands upon thousands of people grow up knowing they weren't wanted and grow up with mental and emotional problems because of it, Or, even grow up in even more poverty so that they end up a bunch of friggin' thieves and steal YOUR stuff, all because a bunch of Self-Righteous Christians want to punish someone for having sex.”


Kill because someone might end up with problems? Would you have wanted to have been aborted? Would you have wanted to be dismembered alive?

Blame poverty on Christians? YOU want to punish the child. YOU WANT TO PUNISH THE CHILD BY KILLING IT. Because it MIGHT- IT MIGHT end up in poverty. Might it not end up doing something great for humanity? MIGHT IT END UP LIVING A WONDERFUL LIFE? Do you know with certainty that every child aborted would have ended up in poverty? You are making a judgement call for another human being. You are being judge, jury and executione.

How many children have you helped by adopting them? How many have you helped by foster caring them? Does one need be a Christian to serve those in need?
How much do you do in your life to help mankind?


I aksed you in a previous post....Would you be in favor of abortion to keep the population down?
You never answered. Was it because your back was against the wall or you just have no clue?

You said, “I would be in favor of letting women choose to do what the heck they want to, and not be forced to do what YOU want them to do.”

Be more specific….

Do you think abortion is killing an innocent child? Yes or no
Do you think a woman has the right to kill her unborn child? Yes or no


“Judges aren't medical experts, are they? The average person will typically refer to it as a baby while it is still in the womb, but most people understand that technically, it is a fetus.”

We had judges, Supreme Court justices make a judgment call that changed our laws about abortion. They based their ruling on lies. That is why our abortion laws must be changed. They were not medical experts.


How many people do you know that are pregnant refer to their child as fetus? You are lying if you’ve met one. Let’s have a fetus baby shower shall we? Hey Linda hows your fetus doing? I’m going to my fetuses doctors appointment…….Hey Joanne when is your fetus due? Congratulations, your expecting a fetus……How far along is your fetus…………..Is your fetus kicking yet? Have you decorated your fetus' bedroom yet? Do you know the sex of your fetus? Ridiculous Most people know what to call the being in the womb……….a baby. and most people know but will not admit that abortion is really murder. Saying it makes it real. And most won't admit that... hey its killing I know but I still for allwoign it to happen. You wont even admit to that.

”And I'm pretty sure that Steen has already provided information saying that fetuses can NOT experience "pain" as early as 8-10 weeks gestation.”

Steen said they couldn’t feel pain when medical experts say they can feel pain. He is no medical doctor is he? Is he an expert?

“If you're not sure what I meant, ASK, don't just sit there and take it at face value and then attack me.”


Quit beating around the bush and just say it like you mean it. I do not attack anyone. I attack positions. You’re the one who won’t answer the questions that I ask. I understand why you won’t answer about Hitler……….he had similar ideas that align with the pro-choice movement………..abortion on demand……….kill the weak the handicapped………..because society would be better. And that is what your position advocates. Kill the child because he might become sick, might live in poverty……….he’s better off dead. Hitler had the same ideas and he too carried them out like we do today.

 

[Caine]

Kill because someone might end up with problems? Would you have wanted to have been aborted? Would you have wanted to be dismembered alive?

If I were, I wouldn't care less, BECAUSE I WOULDN'T BE HERE!
I guess the aborted fetus' have feelings too? And, what? Do they speak to you? If I were aborted, I wouldn't know the difference, Thats an ignorant question to ask. NEXT!

Blame poverty on Christians?

Where did I do this? Quote me accurately.

YOU want to punish the child.

No, are you making dumbassed assumptions again? Quote me on where I specifically said I want to punish a child. Besides, its not a child until it is born. Before that its a developing organism.

YOU WANT TO PUNISH THE CHILD BY KILLING IT.

Im not a babykiller. Again, see above, its not a child until its born. I don't advocate abortion, nor do I advocate slaying infants. Your logic is extremely off, and its because you are blinded by emotion and scripture. Also, I don't advocate abortion. I don't advocate abortion. Maybe if I treat you like Bush tries to treat the world, repeating the propaganda over and over until they believe him, you might shutup.

Because it MIGHT- IT MIGHT end up in poverty. Might it not end up doing something great for humanity? MIGHT IT END UP LIVING A WONDERFUL LIFE? Do you know with certainty that every child aborted would have ended up in poverty? You are making a judgement call for another human being. You are being judge, jury and executione.

While we are at it, lets ban masterbation, because that sperm that is wasted MIGHT be used to create someone who does something great for humanity.

How many children have you helped by adopting them? How many have you helped by foster caring them? Does one need be a Christian to serve those in need?

Im not adopting kids just to adopt them. Im certain I can have kids with my wife when I want to. We want our own children, not someone elses. Foster care? Im sorry, I WORK FOR A LIVING! I don't have time to foster care children. What? Because you might have done these things suddenly you have more authority to speak on the abortion issue? Don't think so bub.

How much do you do in your life to help mankind?

Well, being as how I served 16 months in Iraq, helping Iraqis, and now im out of the military and in the Police Academy, I would say that I HAVE helped mankind, and I am going to continue to help mankind.

I aksed you in a previous post....Would you be in favor of abortion to keep the population down?
You never answered. Was it because your back was against the wall or you just have no clue?

Back against the wall? Im sorry, debates that are full of enraged emotionalism and scripture don't place my back against the wall. However, I don't have to be for abortion to keep the population down, because its already legal. Your only purpose for asking this question was to pile on more bullshit attacks. Sorry, ain't going to work.

You said, “I would be in favor of letting women choose to do what the heck they want to, and not be forced to do what YOU want them to do.”

Yep.. I said it! Someone had to say it! And Im stickin' to it!

Do you think abortion is killing an innocent child? Yes or no

Nope, and im anxiously waiting your attack dogs.

Do you think a woman has the right to kill her unborn child? Yes or no

Yep, and im anxiously waiting your attack dogs.

“Judges aren't medical experts, are they? The average person will typically refer to it as a baby while it is still in the womb, but most people understand that technically, it is a fetus.”

I didn't say this, your misquoting.

How many people do you know that are pregnant refer to their child as fetus?

Nobody. Why? Because a fetus is not a child, a fetus is a developing organism. A Child is something that exists seperate of the mother.

Let’s have a fetus baby shower shall we? Hey Linda hows your fetus doing? I’m going to my fetuses doctors appointment…….Hey Joanne when is your fetus due?

This is all irrelevant crap.

Congratulations, your expecting a fetus

I find this one extremely ridiculous. You can EXPECT a baby. When is that baby expected? When its BORN. Until then, you have a zygote, embryo, fetus...

How far along is your fetus…………..Is your fetus kicking yet? Have you decorated your fetus' bedroom yet? Do you know the sex of your fetus? Ridiculous

Exactly, so why waste the time typing this ignorant nonsense?

Most people know what to call the being in the womb……….a baby.

That is, those who care about the "being in the womb" those that don't, can call it whatever the hell they like, its a free country.

and most people know but will not admit that abortion is really murder.

Nonsense. Prove it, besides just saying, "Cause I said so".

Saying it makes it real. And most won't admit that... hey its killing I know but I still for allwoign it to happen. You wont even admit to that.

HuH? A woman can do whatever the hell she wants. Who am I to tell her any differently????

”And I'm pretty sure that Steen has already provided information saying that fetuses can NOT experience "pain" as early as 8-10 weeks gestation.”

Your misquoting me again. Maybe you should learn like the rest of us to use the REPLY WITH QUOTE button, and then seperate quotes using the QUOTE and /QUOTE inside of these symbols [ ].

Steen said they couldn’t feel pain when medical experts say they can feel pain. He is no medical doctor is he? Is he an expert?

How do these medical experts know what they feel? I don't trust it.

“If you're not sure what I meant, ASK, don't just sit there and take it at face value and then attack me.”

Another misquote, I didn't say this.

I do not attack anyone. I attack positions.

No, you attack people, and generalize that all those who don't give a **** what a woman does with her body are "evil" or something along those lines.

I understand why you won’t answer about Hitler……….he had similar ideas that align with the pro-choice movement………..abortion on demand……….kill the weak the handicapped………..because society would be better. And that is what your position advocates. Kill the child because he might become sick, might live in poverty……….he’s better off dead. Hitler had the same ideas and he too carried them out like we do today.

This is ignorant and preposterous.
Hitler killed people because of thier Religion..... Similar to the 2000 years of Christian History, starting immediately after the Romans legalized the practice of Christianity. But thats not the debate...

Comparing the Holocaust to Abortion is stupid. Why?
Because Hitler killed living, breathing, viable human individuals.
Abortion is terminating an unwanted or risky pregnancy, which is, disposing of a "developing organism" not a living, breathing, viable human individual.

 

[steen]

Caine says, “And I'm pretty sure that Steen has already provided information saying that fetuses can NOT experience "pain" as early as 8-10 weeks gestation.”

Steen said they couldn’t feel pain when medical experts say they can feel pain. He is no medical doctor is he? Is he an expert?

You are lying. The medical community has reached the solid conclusion that the fetus does not feel pain till around 3rd trimester. A few people in the medical community have prostituted their scientific integrity for political agendas by lying and claiming that the fetus can feel pain before then, despite the evidence to the contrary. But the medical experts are in agreement that no pain is felt until somewhere after the 26th week of pregnancy.

So why don't you drop your lying sophistry about this?

 

[Red-Phase]

Caine says, “Hrmm... Okay.... Lets force women to have children they don't want, so thousands upon thousands of people grow up knowing they weren't wanted and grow up with mental and emotional problems because of it, Or, even grow up in even more poverty so that they end up a bunch of friggin' thieves and steal YOUR stuff, all because a bunch of Self-Righteous Christians want to punish someone for having sex.”


Kill because someone might end up with problems? Would you have wanted to have been aborted? Would you have wanted to be dismembered alive?

Blame poverty on Christians? YOU want to punish the child. YOU WANT TO PUNISH THE CHILD BY KILLING IT. Because it MIGHT- IT MIGHT end up in poverty. Might it not end up doing something great for humanity? MIGHT IT END UP LIVING A WONDERFUL LIFE? Do you know with certainty that every child aborted would have ended up in poverty? You are making a judgement call for another human being. You are being judge, jury and executione.

How many children have you helped by adopting them? How many have you helped by foster caring them? Does one need be a Christian to serve those in need?
How much do you do in your life to help mankind?


I aksed you in a previous post....Would you be in favor of abortion to keep the population down?
You never answered. Was it because your back was against the wall or you just have no clue?

You said, “I would be in favor of letting women choose to do what the heck they want to, and not be forced to do what YOU want them to do.”

Be more specific….

Do you think abortion is killing an innocent child? Yes or no
Do you think a woman has the right to kill her unborn child? Yes or no


“Judges aren't medical experts, are they? The average person will typically refer to it as a baby while it is still in the womb, but most people understand that technically, it is a fetus.”

We had judges, Supreme Court justices make a judgment call that changed our laws about abortion. They based their ruling on lies. That is why our abortion laws must be changed. They were not medical experts.


How many people do you know that are pregnant refer to their child as fetus? You are lying if you’ve met one. Let’s have a fetus baby shower shall we? Hey Linda hows your fetus doing? I’m going to my fetuses doctors appointment…….Hey Joanne when is your fetus due? Congratulations, your expecting a fetus……How far along is your fetus…………..Is your fetus kicking yet? Have you decorated your fetus' bedroom yet? Do you know the sex of your fetus? Ridiculous Most people know what to call the being in the womb……….a baby. and most people know but will not admit that abortion is really murder. Saying it makes it real. And most won't admit that... hey its killing I know but I still for allwoign it to happen. You wont even admit to that.

”And I'm pretty sure that Steen has already provided information saying that fetuses can NOT experience "pain" as early as 8-10 weeks gestation.”

Steen said they couldn’t feel pain when medical experts say they can feel pain. He is no medical doctor is he? Is he an expert?

“If you're not sure what I meant, ASK, don't just sit there and take it at face value and then attack me.”


Quit beating around the bush and just say it like you mean it. I do not attack anyone. I attack positions. You’re the one who won’t answer the questions that I ask. I understand why you won’t answer about Hitler……….he had similar ideas that align with the pro-choice movement………..abortion on demand……….kill the weak the handicapped………..because society would be better. And that is what your position advocates. Kill the child because he might become sick, might live in poverty……….he’s better off dead. Hitler had the same ideas and he too carried them out like we do today.

abortion=institutionalized child genocide

 

[Stace]

abortion=institutionalized child genocide

Genocide? Hardly.

Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'jen-&-"sId
Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

Yeah, I hardly think anyone is trying to kill off all babies of a particular race or culture. Not even all babies born to parents of a particular political group.

 

[steen]

abortion=institutionalized child genocide

That is ignorant nonsense.:roll:

 

[Axismaster]

No Steen, ignorance is when you forget that it is child genocide.

 

[steen]

No Steen, ignorance is when you forget that it is child genocide.

There are no children involved, prolife ignorance none withstanding.

 

[Stace]

There are no children involved, prolife ignorance none withstanding.

Well, if you scroll up to my last post, you'll see it can't be classified as genocide, either. :lol:

 

[steen]

Well, if you scroll up to my last post, you'll see it can't be classified as genocide, either. :lol:

Indeed. So just about everything in his post was flat-out false.:doh

Should we be surprised when prolife posts are false?

 

[Stace]

Indeed. So just about everything in his post was flat-out false.:doh

Should we be surprised when prolife posts are false?

Let me think about that one.....

Nope. Though I find that more often than being false, the posts here try more to appeal to emotions, or reference the Bible or religion in some way, which does nothing to sway my opinion.

 

[Axismaster]

Let me think about that one.....

Nope. Though I find that more often than being false, the posts here try more to appeal to emotions, or reference the Bible or religion in some way, which does nothing to sway my opinion.

I myself get sick of all those allusions to the Bible. I just happen to believe that taking a life is wrong. I think that it is a lot worse to do that than to force a woman to have a baby she doesn't want, think of it. Nobody dies if a woman has a baby she doesn't want, because there is always adoption. I just don't understand it, although I suppose it is all part of our instant gratification culture.

 

[Stace]

I myself get sick of all those allusions to the Bible. I just happen to believe that taking a life is wrong. I think that it is a lot worse to do that than to force a woman to have a baby she doesn't want, think of it. Nobody dies if a woman has a baby she doesn't want, because there is always adoption. I just don't understand it, although I suppose it is all part of our instant gratification culture.

I understand what you're saying, but I just can't advocate forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term if she's not going to keep the baby....or say she did decide to keep it after all, but then neglects and abuses the child.

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

I understand what you're saying, but I just can't advocate forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term if she's not going to keep the baby....or say she did decide to keep it after all, but then neglects and abuses the child.

I think if a woman decides to keep the baby more often than not the baby will be fine. I have that much faith in women, to know most are intelligent enough to know the baby did not commit the rape. I do share your concern for abused children. We need more people to investigate, and protect children. Killing a child in the womb is the worse kind of abuse. Steeling that childs life, sorry there is no reason to do that. Today we have numerous agencies willing to help, if people would just give them the chance. If you close your eyes and imagine a new born baby sleeping and then gazing into Mom's eyes I can think of no more beautiful thing as giving a person life.

 

[Stace]

I think if a woman decides to keep the baby more often than not the baby will be fine. I have that much faith in women, to know most are intelligent enough to know the baby did not commit the rape. I do share your concern for abused children. We need more people to investigate, and protect children. Killing a child in the womb is the worse kind of abuse. Steeling that childs life, sorry there is no reason to do that. Today we have numerous agencies willing to help, if people would just give them the chance. If you close your eyes and imagine a new born baby sleeping and then gazing into Mom's eyes I can think of no more beautiful thing as giving a person life.

You honestly think the child will be fine? Let me share a little story with you....my sister in law has had three abortions. She also has two sons and a daughter that's due next month. She no longer has custody of her sons because she was constantly neglecting them, could not properly provide for them because she was too busy getting high and spending her money on drugs. She's a rare case in that she willingly turned the boys over to Child Services because she actually recognized that she could not provide for her children. Her oldest boy lives with his father, and he is pretty good about letting us all see him. The younger boy is plagued with respiratory problems because my SIL smoked all through her pregnancy and who knows what else...when she first gave up custody, my mother in law took the youngest, he had to have breathing treatments every four hours and when he was given a medical examination, he was found to have had broken ribs, though when that injury actually occured, they weren't able to determine.....but when my mother in law took him in, he was only four months old. FOUR MONTHS OLD and he had already had broken ribs.

The youngest is now in the custody of a family friend and will probably remain there; my sister in law has to go to court over it next month and I don't see her ever getting her son back. Luckily, this friend is also really good about letting us see the little guy. But my sister in law, if she doesn't get the baby taken away immediately, probably won't have custody of her daughter for very long, either. When we were visiting my in laws for Christmas, she was outside smoking and when I commented that she shouldn't be doing that, she said "Suzanne (her cousin's wife) smoked during all four of her pregnancies, and all of her kids are fine"......how stupid can you get? Just because someone else was stupid enough to do that and had no problems, doesn't mean you'll be that lucky.

My sister in law is a big reason as to why I remain pro choice. I can't even stand to think about what would have happened if she hadn't had those three abortions....the idea of three more abused and neglected children just isn't something I can stomach. Three more nephews or nieces that would no longer be a part of our family...sorry, but I think being aborted is the best thing that could have happened to those fetuses, when compared to the pain they would have endured had they been born.

 

[Felicity]

My sister in law is a big reason as to why I remain pro choice. I can't even stand to think about what would have happened if she hadn't had those three abortions....the idea of three more abused and neglected children just isn't something I can stomach. Three more nephews or nieces that would no longer be a part of our family...sorry, but I think being aborted is the best thing that could have happened to those fetuses, when compared to the pain they would have endured had they been born.

Ah...so you suppoert euthanizing humans if you think their life isn't going so well...You wanna take on the responsibility of defining a "good" life versus a "bad" life and kill all the one's who may or will have a "bad" life based upon your judgement?


Is your MIL a good woman? Will the 4 month old have a good home? Apparently she raised your spouse well enough for you--she'll probably give that kid a good home and that kid will decide the course of his life. Your in-laws prove that good and bad can result from the same environment--it's what we choose to do with our OWN lives that determines our course. You take that "CHOICE" away when you're "pro-choice" and that's why the term really doesn't fit abortion advocates.

 

[vergiss]

Ah...so you suppoert euthanizing humans if you think their life isn't going so well...You wanna take on the responsibility of defining a "good" life versus a "bad" life and kill all the one's who may or will have a "bad" life based upon your judgement?


Is your MIL a good woman? Will the 4 month old have a good home? Apparently she raised your spouse well enough for you--she'll probably give that kid a good home and that kid will decide the course of his life. Your in-laws prove that good and bad can result from the same environment--it's what we choose to do with our OWN lives that determines our course. You take that "CHOICE" away when you're "pro-choice" and that's why the term really doesn't fit abortion advocates.

If you can make ridiculous assumptions, so can I:

So, you think it's okay for a child to be abused, so long as it exists?

 

[Felicity]

If you can make ridiculous assumptions, so can I:

So, you think it's okay for a child to be abused, so long as it exists?

No I don't think anyone should be abused. However--many people who had very awful childhoods for any number of reasons grow to be wonderful and contributing people who impact the world in a positive way. If you throttle that life because you decide it would be "better off" you deny that opportunity for the individual to have the choice and you deprive the world of that unique individual.

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

If you can make ridiculous assumptions, so can I:

So, you think it's okay for a child to be abused, so long as it exists?

Child abuse is a very different issue. You do not stop child abuse by killing a potential victim if that was the case we would all be killed. You stop child abuse by reporting it were ever it exist. You write our elected officials and make them act to enforce laws. The worse kind of abuse is killing an innocent baby in his or her Mother's womb. So the pro abortion crowd answer to child abuse is abortion? Oh how horrible. Kill a baby because that baby might be abused? I am sorry it does not make sense.

 

[Stace]

Ah...so you suppoert euthanizing humans if you think their life isn't going so well...You wanna take on the responsibility of defining a "good" life versus a "bad" life and kill all the one's who may or will have a "bad" life based upon your judgement?

How in the heck did euthanasia get brought into this? Nice try at making more assumptions about me, but, no cigar.

Is your MIL a good woman? Will the 4 month old have a good home? Apparently she raised your spouse well enough for you--she'll probably give that kid a good home and that kid will decide the course of his life. Your in-laws prove that good and bad can result from the same environment--it's what we choose to do with our OWN lives that determines our course. You take that "CHOICE" away when you're "pro-choice" and that's why the term really doesn't fit abortion advocates.

You obviously didn't pay attention the most of my post. My mother in law does not have the youngest boy anymore, he is with a family friend. He was four months old when my sister in law gave up custody and we found out about the broken ribs; he will be two years old this July. I would be taking custody of him myself if my husband and I weren't so set on our first child being OURS.

As for the rest of your post, I'm not even going to bother because I don't feel like having more of my posts twisted and misconstrued, and I don't feel like having words put in my mouth.

 

[vergiss]

You obviously didn't pay attention the most of my post. My mother in law does not have the youngest boy anymore, he is with a family friend. He was four months old when my sister in law gave up custody and we found out about the broken ribs; he will be two years old this July. I would be taking custody of him myself if my husband and I weren't so set on our first child being OURS.

As for the rest of your post, I'm not even going to bother because I don't feel like having more of my posts twisted and misconstrued, and I don't feel like having words put in my mouth.

Yes, because we all know Felicity is the only decent mother (*cough*) in this forum, and know what's best for every child alive (HAH!). :roll:

 

[Stace]

Yes, because we all know Felicity is the only decent mother (*cough*) in this forum, and know what's best for every child alive (HAH!). :roll:

Well, I won't comment on whether or not she's a good mother, because I don't know, I've never seen her in action so to speak, but I'd prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt.

But as for the rest....reminded me of a thought I had the other day. For people that believe in God and all that...supposedly (according to the Bible at least), God "knows" all of us before we are even conceived...so if that's the case, don't you think that God knows who's going to be aborted, who's going to be born with Down's Syndrome, who's going to be abused later in life, etc.? I mean, if God thinks abortion is so wrong, why'd he let women start having them in the first place? I mean, abortion has been around since Biblical times....so has miscarriage. If every life is so precious, why does God even allow miscarriages to happen? It just doesn't add up in my mind.

 

[vergiss]

Well, I won't comment on whether or not she's a good mother, because I don't know, I've never seen her in action so to speak, but I'd prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt.

But as for the rest....reminded me of a thought I had the other day. For people that believe in God and all that...supposedly (according to the Bible at least), God "knows" all of us before we are even conceived...so if that's the case, don't you think that God knows who's going to be aborted, who's going to be born with Down's Syndrome, who's going to be abused later in life, etc.? I mean, if God thinks abortion is so wrong, why'd he let women start having them in the first place? I mean, abortion has been around since Biblical times....so has miscarriage. If every life is so precious, why does God even allow miscarriages to happen? It just doesn't add up in my mind.

I was more being sceptical about her being the only decent mother on the forum.

I agree regarding God, etc. I've often believed the soul doesn't enter the body until the first breath, which is a common spiritual position. If I recall, Judaism teaches that the foetus is not yet a full human being.