Racism

[mak2]

Come on man, these are my people, I grew up with them and know exactly what they are talking about. People in my head? Really?

Apparently not in your head. No race was mentioned but obviously you pictured people in your head..... What color were the people in your head?

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

In some places the police aren't your friends. You don't call them for help.

While I would wholeheartedly agree with that remark twenty years ago, we have been trying to vigorously integrate our civic institutions for years and have made amazing progress in the area. Surely it's far from perfect, but the "no snitching" mentality is simply hurting these neighborhoods at this point. Especially when groups with a heavy focus on "civil policing" like the NOI (who I rather detest in most things) are on the decline.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

No, American's most significant history is its birthday. Mistakes were made. Our nation began to correct them with the Emancipation Proclamation. Continued to correct them by the various Civil Rights Acts and Affirmative Action.

To say we should to wring our hands and gnash our teeth over our past is ridiculous. In every society there will be bigots...there will be people prejudiced against the least of us...all over the world...slavery or no.

Many blacks have their own ghetto speak. Then they wonder why Apple won't hire them. They don't value education. Then they wonder why Apple won't hire them. They won't police their own neighborhoods by cooperating with the coppers. Then they wonder why cops have a problem dealing with their crime. They raise their children in neighborhoods where getting to and from school is like traversing a war zone. And then they wonder why they die.

They look to the nanny state to even the playing field of some imaginary injustice being done to them today. The Democratic Party is more than happy to play the music they dance to. And so are their so-called leaders: the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and hate ministers the likes of Rev. Jeremiah White.

Again ....slavery was a horrific crime.

And to that end ....it's not the criminals who get the final say on this.

Again....by far ...America's most significant history is slavery!!

And if you're currently trying to portray this racist society as equal ....do you think I'm surprised you also want to down play slavery...duh-huh!!

 

[ttwtt78640]

How old are you? Do you always base your decisions about what you do or do not do on what those around you are doing….try thinking for yourself.
Secondly, as far as the reactions of “Black Leaders” I don’t know what you are referring to and I don’t know how they would react to anything, I’m not black….are you? But I have wonder…have you ever been kept from achieving what you want in life because of what you look like? Something tells me no, either that or you are just incapable of empathy and compassion. It’s much easier to hate than to help. You their pissed for no reason? Think again.
Finally, you think you can just walk up to someone and tell them how to change and their going to do it right there on the spot. Why....because you're the great white hope here to lead the down trodden out of the mire. And if they don’t jump on it somehow that’s THEIR failing. Grow up. You share alternatives and opportunity because it's the right thing to do for your fellow man and you take each case on an individual basis. Some people will respond immediately and alter their path so that they get better results in their lives and some will reject for a variety of reasons. But you keep offering and you wait. I’m not suggesting you strip people of their dignity by doing it for them, or taking care of them because they can’t to do it themselves. Do you see the difference here?
It’s not as simple as you would like to make it. It’s not the good guys vs the bad guys and everyone is easily identified and given the right color hat.

I am 59, I look like a biker and do indeed think for myself. Compassion is not you telling me who I must help. As far as taking each case on an individual basis - that is exactly what private charity does (it picks/chooses and sets conditions), whereas gov't charity must be "fair" - meaning that even self inflicted woes get the gov't cheese with no strings attached. To pay any non-disabled citizen that drops out of HS and breeds like a bunny becuase they "lack resources" to feed their brood is simply insane. If you have a pet that you cannot (or will not) properly care for then you are charged with a crime, the pet is taken to a shelter and you get no gov't "reward"; if you have a child that you cannot (or will not) properly care for then you get parental counciling, the child is left with you and you get gov't assistance (a reward - forcibly taken from the wages of others, no less).

 

[Hypersonic]

Indeed, I see where you are going. Choosing your words very carefully in order not to use any terms that try to define "hip-hop culture" as being associated with/originating from urban blacks. That is just as disengenuous as saying that crime rates are similar in areas of major U.S. cities with a majority minority population or that they are usually also NASCAR fans. You wish to deny that any cultural differences exist or that they are not seen as destructive or scary by many people (black and white) - typically followed by white folks (or oreos), with their white privilege, cannot understand that this is the new "urban" normal. As to using Eminem (and his "troubles") as an example of not being refered to as a thug or ghetto, you omit his own claims to applying those labels to himself, that is why he is popular in that "hip-hop" music scene (but you probably knew that).

What is Hip Hop Culture?

EMINEM LYRICS - Renegade

No I am omitting nothing, I just think its hard for you to understand the difference between fans of hip hop and society. Fans of hip hop flock to Eminem becausw of his lyrical ability and his persona, how society sees Eminem as an outlier in what is considered a predominantly black cultural art. While Eminem's lyrics seems psychologically disturbing to others people like The Game if we put their lyrics side by side with Eminem's society would perceive two different thinga.

It doesn't matter what Eminem calls himself, society sees a white rapper who is considered a z"wigger" and "wanna be black" because society perceives violent lyrics and money, cars, clothes as a part of black culture not because its the culture of that genre of music. Sorry you dont understand this. The perception of Eminem compared to black artists are different and that is my entire point. American society thrives on labeling black culture.


Here is another example....


Sandy Hook shooting...

Media focused on his psyche when there are black criminals like the Sandy hook shooter who commit the same crime. Two different criminals same crime. Society perceives a white shooter crazy while the other being a "criminal" "thug" "ghetto" its not about pick and choosing its about social perceptions.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Again ....slavery was a horrific crime.

And to that end ....it's not the criminals who get the final say on this.

Again....by far ...America's most significant history is slavery!!

And if you're currently trying to portray this racist society as equal ....do you think I'm surprised you also want to down play slavery...duh-huh!!

<~~~~~~~~~~~>

 

[Papa bull]

Come on man, these are my people, I grew up with them and know exactly what they are talking about. People in my head? Really?

Yes, really. If you associate one race to the the losers in society, you're exhibiting racism. On the other hand, you can't assume that any discussion about the losers in society by other people must be about race. That's your association going on in your head unless there is an explicit statement that would indicate an assumption of racial inferiority or superiority.

 

[Mathematician]

Again ....slavery was a horrific crime.

And to that end ....it's not the criminals who get the final say on this.

Again....by far ...America's most significant history is slavery!!

And if you're currently trying to portray this racist society as equal ....do you think I'm surprised you also want to down play slavery...duh-huh!!

uch::beatdeadhorse:cuckoo::bs:failpail:

 

[Papa bull]

Again ....slavery was a horrific crime.

And to that end ....it's not the criminals who get the final say on this.

Again....by far ...America's most significant history is slavery!!

And if you're currently trying to portray this racist society as equal ....do you think I'm surprised you also want to down play slavery...duh-huh!!

Indians had slaves. Europeans had slaves. Asia had slaves. Iceland had slaves and Africans have engaged in slavery well before any white man sailed to their shores and they're one of the few places where slavery still exists. The USA abolished the practice of slavery in the US for all time in 1865. It's 2013. Time to get over it. Seriously. Get over it, already.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

When you start get into the "N" word....and such fart....it's a lost cause. And in truth whites often use this as a tactic to stave off black people's call for real equality. The "N" word in addition is used by many of America's race baiters for profit...so that only further complicate and distract from the real issue here.

The real issue is ....slavery defines America simply because it was an horrific crime ...and how you would define evil if you were to explain the word to somebody.
The "N" word...black-on-black crime are merely the fall out from this evil.

In addition, America was built on the engine of slavery...to that end ...this is why we watch this wealth and power from slavery slowly dwindling and the rest of the world slowly catching up.

China will be a true world leader ......and they will lead without the specter of such horrific evil in their midst.

 

[Papa bull]

When you start get into the "N" word....and such fart....it's a lost cause. And in truth whites often use this as a tactic to stave off black people's call for real equality. The "N" word in addition is used by many of America's race baiters for profit...so that only further complicate and distract from the real issue here.

The real issue is ....slavery defines America simply because it was an horrific crime ...and how you would define evil if you were to explain the word to somebody.
The "N" word...black-on-black crime are merely the fall out from this evil.

In addition, America was built on the engine of slavery...to that end ...this is why we watch this wealth and power from slavery slowly dwindling and the rest of the world slowly catching up.

China will be a true world leader ......and they will lead without the specter of such horrific evil in their midst.

You need to crack some history books. Slavery wasn't an "American thing". It was everyone's thing from the Native Americans to the Chinese.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

When you start get into the "N" word....and such fart....it's a lost cause. And in truth whites often use this as a tactic to stave off black people's call for real equality. The "N" word in addition is used by many of America's race baiters for profit...so that only further complicate and distract from the real issue here.

The real issue is ....slavery defines America simply because it was an horrific crime ...and how you would define evil if you were to explain the word to somebody.
The "N" word...black-on-black crime are merely the fall out from this evil.

In addition, America was built on the engine of slavery...to that end ...this is why we watch this wealth and power from slavery slowly dwindling and the rest of the world slowly catching up.

China will be a true world leader ......and they will lead without the specter of such horrific evil in their midst.

actually our center stage as super power seems more often contributed to our intact infrastructure during and following ww2. And lol @ china. They certainly may supplant the US, but I see little basis to claim that this will usher in some idealistic revolution, and the country certainly has more than it's share of historical ills

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Indians had slaves. Europeans had slaves. Asia had slaves. Iceland had slaves and Africans have engaged in slavery well before any white man sailed to their shores and they're one of the few places where slavery still exists. The USA abolished the practice of slavery in the US for all time in 1865. It's 2013. Time to get over it. Seriously. Get over it, already.

Yeah ..yeah ...and the Jews...and the Syrian.....yadda...yadda ...anything to deflect and distract.

Listen...America had not 4months...not 4 years...not 40 years ....but 400 solid years of slavery. It amassed unimaginable wealth by this means ...and after that it developed infrastructure that ensured the status quo is held in check. America ... then embarked on decades on Jim Crow that prolonged slavery in many forms thereafter.
People talk about 6 million Jews ...that's a drop in the bucket to the amount of slaves lost in the horrific trans-atlantic voyage alone!!

America history is nothing but slavery!!
So go ahead and talk fart about ...duh-huh...the Indians had slaves...the welch had slaves......

 

[Papa bull]

Yeah ..yeah ...and the Jews...and the Syrian.....yadda...yadda ...anything to deflect and distract.

Listen...America had not 4months...not 4 years...not 40 years ....but 400 solid years of slavery. It amassed unimaginable wealth by this means ...and after that it developed infrastructure that ensured the status quo is held in check. America ... then embarked on decades on Jim Crow that prolonged slavery in many forms thereafter.
People talk about 6 million Jews ...that's a drop in the bucket to the amount of slaves lost in the horrific trans-atlantic voyage alone!!

America history is nothing but slavery!!
So go ahead and talk fart about ...duh-huh...the Indians had slaves...the welch had slaves......

Boo-hoo-hoo. It stopped 150 years ago. Get over it.

 

[Mathematician]

Yeah ..yeah ...and the Jews...and the Syrian.....yadda...yadda ...anything to deflect and distract.

Listen...America had not 4months...not 4 years...not 40 years ....but 400 solid years of slavery. It amassed unimaginable wealth by this means ...and after that it developed infrastructure that ensured the status quo is held in check. America ... then embarked on decades on Jim Crow that prolonged slavery in many forms thereafter.
People talk about 6 million Jews ...that's a drop in the bucket to the amount of slaves lost in the horrific trans-atlantic voyage alone!!

America history is nothing but slavery!!
So go ahead and talk fart about ...duh-huh...the Indians had slaves...the welch had slaves......

You should stop now. You seem like you want more BS attention for the history of slavery than a sweet 16 birthday girl wants for turning 16. :roll:

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Boo-hoo-hoo. It stopped 150 years ago. Get over it.

Yep...this is what I expected.... my point is made .....I think my work is done here.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

actually our center stage as super power seems more often contributed to our intact infrastructure during and following ww2. And lol @ china. They certainly may supplant the US, but I see little basis to claim that this will usher in some idealistic revolution, and the country certainly has more than it's share of historical ills

The America came to be only by means of the gun. The Chinese have guns as well....but where they excel is by being more intelligent (on average)...this more than the gun is why they will dominate.
And as far as their history .... theirs is way more diverse ...trust me ...it's not just slavery!!

 

[ttwtt78640]

Again ....slavery was a horrific crime.

And to that end ....it's not the criminals who get the final say on this.

Again....by far ...America's most significant history is slavery!!

And if you're currently trying to portray this racist society as equal ....do you think I'm surprised you also want to down play slavery...duh-huh!!

Where did you come up with this "fact"? Slavery predates even the bible, and still exists to this day in other parts of the world. Slavery was not a U.S. invention, we did not send cowboys to Africa on some great slave round-up (look it up!). At that time in world history the slave trade was a global market, and yes the U.S. was one of many player's in it. Africa, yep those were black folks, was galdly profitting from the slave trade as well, some slavery exists to this day in Africa.

Slavery in contemporary Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hard Truth]

Racism is slowly petering out, but it is far from being eliminated. The main difference these days is that people are more cautious about who they express their racist view to, and they are more likely to use euphemisms. A lot of people are in denial about their racism.

I would say that most racists are unaware that they are racist.

Some people pretend to only criticize youth ghetto culture, which doesn't need to be exempt from criticism. However it is racist to assume that the 15 year old in baggy pants will keep wearing them and remain unemployed his entire life. We don't make that same assumption about a white goth or punk kid.

Another big mistake is to say that because one person thrived despite racism and poverty that anyone can do it, and those who didn't are simply lazy or stupid. There is a lot more complexity to the issues of poverty and racism than is generally recognized. Many kids are so damaged by their backgrounds that an individual's effort is not enough to change their situation. They may need a range of help, including with nutrition (much more important than recognized), stabilizing their home environment, treating psychological problemss, mentoring and schooling designed for their situation. Racists and bigots tend towards quick and simple explanations and have difficulties with nuance and complexity, so they tend to reject comprehensive strategies for helping the poor. These solutions may seem expensive, but if implemented properly, they will pay off in the long run as the problems associated with poverty are reduced.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

We don't make that same assumption about a white goth or punk kid.

actually, many do ...

 

[ChrisL]

Yeah ..yeah ...and the Jews...and the Syrian.....yadda...yadda ...anything to deflect and distract.

Listen...America had not 4months...not 4 years...not 40 years ....but 400 solid years of slavery. It amassed unimaginable wealth by this means ...and after that it developed infrastructure that ensured the status quo is held in check. America ... then embarked on decades on Jim Crow that prolonged slavery in many forms thereafter.
People talk about 6 million Jews ...that's a drop in the bucket to the amount of slaves lost in the horrific trans-atlantic voyage alone!!

America history is nothing but slavery!!
So go ahead and talk fart about ...duh-huh...the Indians had slaves...the welch had slaves......

America is only 237 years old.

 

[opendebate]

I am 59, I look like a biker and do indeed think for myself. Compassion is not you telling me who I must help. As far as taking each case on an individual basis - that is exactly what private charity does (it picks/chooses and sets conditions), whereas gov't charity must be "fair" - meaning that even self inflicted woes get the gov't cheese with no strings attached. To pay any non-disabled citizen that drops out of HS and breeds like a bunny becuase they "lack resources" to feed their brood is simply insane. If you have a pet that you cannot (or will not) properly care for then you are charged with a crime, the pet is taken to a shelter and you get no gov't "reward"; if you have a child that you cannot (or will not) properly care for then you get parental counciling, the child is left with you and you get gov't assistance (a reward - forcibly taken from the wages of others, no less).

Okay, fair enough. I understand your anger and frustration. My point is there is more to the story. There are deserving people who need and should get assistance. It's not their fault that the system set up to provide help is flawed. We should revamp the system not take away the help. Because at the end of the day helping people build a better life for themselves benefits everyone. As for private charity it does not address the problem it band aids the damage. Both are necessary to make the biggest impact and hopeful level the playing field so that someday there are fewer inequities. But I must address a few of your other comments:

1. what do you mean by self inflicted woes
2. your analogy of the untended pet is a little off the mark to me. We are talking about human beings and, unlike a pet, they cannot simply adapt to a new owner.
3. i don't think someone in this position feels rewarded. I think they feel defeated and hopeless and I believe that any one of them would rather have a job and a salary they could take pride in.

It seems consistent with conservatives to see the worst in people and not consider the influences that got them there. Let me ask you a question. Would you agree that it makes sense to give credit to your parents if they raised you responsibly? That you acknowledge the contribution that there examples made to your success? If you answer yes to this question doesn't it then follow that a negative influence would play the opposite role in how you handle your life as an adult? I'm not suggesting that you blame your parents and you are then free from responsibility. I AM saying, that undesirable behaviors may be a product of someones examples and not of their innate character....therefore, different examples and guidance may get you different results.

 

[Paschendale]

Unless for some reason you think that these friends were talking about poor white people, too, then yeah, that's racism. Those kinds of remarks are never directed towards any group besides poor blacks. So there's some classism mixed in with the racism (and I think they're often quite linked), but I don't think anyone has ever referred to a white crack baby or a white welfare queen. Even if there are no overt descriptions of race, the stereotypes that these people were referring to are built upon a race-based image.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Okay, fair enough. I understand your anger and frustration. My point is there is more to the story. There are deserving people who need and should get assistance. It's not their fault that the system set up to provide help is flawed. We should revamp the system not take away the help. Because at the end of the day helping people build a better life for themselves benefits everyone. As for private charity it does not address the problem it band aids the damage. Both are necessary to make the biggest impact and hopeful level the playing field so that someday there are fewer inequities. But I must address a few of your other comments:

1. what do you mean by self inflicted woes
2. your analogy of the untended pet is a little off the mark to me. We are talking about human beings and, unlike a pet, they cannot simply adapt to a new owner.
3. i don't think someone in this position feels rewarded. I think they feel defeated and hopeless and I believe that any one of them would rather have a job and a salary they could take pride in.

It seems consistent with conservatives to see the worst in people and not consider the influences that got them there. Let me ask you a question. Would you agree that it makes sense to give credit to your parents if they raised you responsibly? That you acknowledge the contribution that there examples made to your success? If you answer yes to this question doesn't it then follow that a negative influence would play the opposite role in how you handle your life as an adult? I'm not suggesting that you blame your parents and you are then free from responsibility. I AM saying, that undesirable behaviors may be a product of someones examples and not of their innate character....therefore, different examples and guidance may get you different results.

You have now come full circle with this post. You concur that bad partenting makes bad children yet, at the same time, insist that bad parents be given full rights (and some of my money) to raise any kids that they choose to create (since these kids cannot "adapt", like pets, to better parenting). This is very the basis for the endless cycle of poverty/dependency, morons begetting morons, thus after about 50 years of "great society" poverty programs (and trillions of tax dollars) we now have exactly the same amount of poverty in the US, about 15%, as we did 50 years ago.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

but I don't think anyone has ever referred to a white crack baby or a white welfare queen. Even if there are no overt descriptions of race, the stereotypes that these people were referring to are built upon a race-based image.

Heard it alot growing up, tbh. But that is more among the poor, where the realities of poverty tend to be clearly less concerned with color