Racism

[opendebate]

That is clearly bigotry, sterotyping or prejudice, yet not necessarily racism. Racism is the belief that race alone makes a person inferior to persons of another race. Obviously "people on welfare", "people that are unemployed", "lazy people" or "people abusing drugs" is not referring to race alone. Do you doubt that TM suffered from lack of parental attention? It was three days before TM's parents identifiied the body - surely if your teenage son is missing then you would call local police. It was reported that TM's father had called local hospitals in an attempt to locate his son, yet never called the police it seems. TM's parents were also said to be "unaware" of his school suspensions or of the reasons for them.

The real question is whether or not someone thinks a person is in on welfare, or does not supervise their children adequately or is a druggie because that's what that race of people is naturally inclined to do. That's racism and ignorance. The reasons a person finds themselves in any of these situations is born of a variety of reasons and none of us has the right to make uninformed judgements about another person. We of course, are going to judge someones actions but we should not judge their character or their potential. Not until you know THEIR story. Nine times out of ten, the most racist person in the world changes their tune if they give themselves a chance to listen to the story behind the behaviors. To get to know the person, not the dress, not the language not the ...whatever. This does not mean that they should not be held accountable for their actions, it means someone should show them how to do better and then expect them to do better. When we know better....we do better.

 

[spanky]

I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM. Zimmerman came up but quickly shifted to "them" people and thugs. All these people are well educated and either have positions of or are recently retired from positions in which they are in charge of others. A couple lots of others. Listening to them talk it dawned on me, I dont even know what racism is, I guess. none of these people would say they were racist, but yet they refereed to them people being on welfare and being druggies and unemployed, and lazy etc. The reason kids like Martin get shot is because their crack whore mommas aren't watching them. The typical stereotypes I have heard all my life. if that aint racism, What is racism?

Wow. have you seen the Z/T threads here for the last year? The last two weeks?

I've had to change my mind about a few people here...

 

[ttwtt78640]

And I've seen white kids here in California that have those same poses. All elements of kids displaying the "bad boy, hip-hop, rapper" persona. In many hoods there are plenty of people that have this type of persona and Trayvon very well maybe a legitimate thug however in most news articles and the public reaction especially a character of color people often refer to deviant behavior as "thug" "ghetto." It's quite ironic when Eminem ran into his troubles people referred to him as "disturbed" "crazy" rather than referring to him as a "thug" or "ghetto." See where I'm going?

Indeed, I see where you are going. Choosing your words very carefully in order not to use any terms that try to define "hip-hop culture" as being associated with/originating from urban blacks. That is just as disengenuous as saying that crime rates are similar in areas of major U.S. cities with a majority minority population or that they are usually also NASCAR fans. You wish to deny that any cultural differences exist or that they are not seen as destructive or scary by many people (black and white) - typically followed by white folks (or oreos), with their white privilege, cannot understand that this is the new "urban" normal. As to using Eminem (and his "troubles") as an example of not being refered to as a thug or ghetto, you omit his own claims to applying those labels to himself, that is why he is popular in that "hip-hop" music scene (but you probably knew that).

What is Hip Hop Culture?

EMINEM LYRICS - Renegade

 

[ttwtt78640]

The real question is whether or not someone thinks a person is in on welfare, or does not supervise their children adequately or is a druggie because that's what that race of people is naturally inclined to do. That's racism and ignorance. The reasons a person finds themselves in any of these situations is born of a variety of reasons and none of us has the right to make uninformed judgements about another person. We of course, are going to judge someones actions but we should not judge their character or their potential. Not until you know THEIR story. Nine times out of ten, the most racist person in the world changes their tune if they give themselves a chance to listen to the story behind the behaviors. To get to know the person, not the dress, not the language not the ...whatever. This does not mean that they should not be held accountable for their actions, it means someone should show them how to do better and then expect them to do better. When we know better....we do better.

Really? Why do you suppose that so many "black leaders" do no such thing? Many would flat out revolt if this became official gov't policy. I also note that you say someone (never named) should show them how to do better and then" (always later) expect them to do better. Just who is this someone if not black leadership? When is then going to become now?

 

[MaggieD]

It's tiring and pointless to argue the issue of racism in America.

America still today ....want to be a racist society under the pretense that we live equally.

In fact it would be frightening to the white population for example ...if all the blacks in America were leaving the country.
Know why .....whites need to see blacks to feel valid in America's racist society.
They (whites) may not want them(blacks) as their immediate neighbors ....but they need them here for their physiological well being.

If living in America was a 100 yards race....the blacks would be at the starting line ...and the whites would be at the 30 yard line waiting for the gun to start the race. And all the time ...the whites would try to convince anybody who ask that ... no...no...they are really at the starting line!

In my view a white male in America at 55 to 60 who don't own at least one home (not paying mortgage)....and cannot retire is worth-less given this advantage.

You must be a Democrat.

 

[Dickieboy]

Really? Why do you suppose that so many "black leaders" do no such thing? Many would flat out revolt if this became official gov't policy. I also note that you say someone (never named) should show them how to do better and then" (always later) expect them to do better. Just who is this someone if not black leadership? When is then going to become now?

It often seems to me that when this 'someone' is non-black they are immediately labeled as racist. And when these same non-black folks press for 'now' they get labeled as extreme racist.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It often seems to me that when this 'someone' is non-black they are immediately labeled as racist. And when these same non-black folks press for 'now' they get labeled as extreme racist.

That is the merry-go-round of racial/social policy in the good old U.S. of A. Our gov't social policy (safety net?) programs are designed to reward lifestyle failure - yet we pretend to express shock that the lifestyle failure simply continues. In this nation we now tax "high" wages and reward out-of-wedlock childbirth with subsidies, yet cannot seem to find a way to break the "cycle of dependency" that we offer as "help". It amazes me that blacks now have over a 70% out-of-wedlock childbirth rate and blame "whitey", racism or society for that condition. Rewarding personal failure with a gov't check (far in excess of what a singke full-time, minimum wage job pays) is not helping anyone "choose" to better themselves, but it does get 90%+ voter loyalty to those that offer this generous "help".

 

[wolfie]

That is the merry-go-round of racial/social policy in the good old U.S. of A. Our gov't social policy (safety net?) programs are designed to reward lifestyle failure - yet we pretend to express shock that the lifestyle failure simply continues. In this nation we now tax "high" wages and reward out-of-wedlock childbirth with subsidies, yet cannot seem to find a way to break the "cycle of dependency" that we offer as "help". It amazes me that blacks now have over a 70% out-of-wedlock childbirth rate and blame "whitey", racism or society for that condition. Rewarding personal failure with a gov't check (far in excess of what a singke full-time, minimum wage job pays) is not helping anyone "choose" to better themselves, but it does get 90%+ voter loyalty to those that offer this generous "help".

For African-American men, the direct contribution is the lack of personal responsibility, a point which encompasses more than what’s implicit in a simple statement. The lack of personal responsibility entails many different counter-productive attitudes, practices, and beliefs which enough black men exhibit to place the entire demographic into a state of crisis. We’ve all seen, read about, or personally know the dismal statistics: the unprecedented and shocking percentages of black males who are a part of the criminal justice system, who have multiple “baby mamas,” who are not involved in or pursue an education at levels comparable to their black female counterparts, or who are victimizing themselves through acts of black-on-black crime with seeming reckless abandon. All told, the low and dysfunctional levels of education, the casual attitude toward having (felony) criminal records, routine recreational drug use, and overly misguided-attitudes toward sexual promiscuity...

 

[Papa bull]

I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM. Zimmerman came up but quickly shifted to "them" people and thugs. All these people are well educated and either have positions of or are recently retired from positions in which they are in charge of others. A couple lots of others. Listening to them talk it dawned on me, I dont even know what racism is, I guess. none of these people would say they were racist, but yet they refereed to them people being on welfare and being druggies and unemployed, and lazy etc. The reason kids like Martin get shot is because their crack whore mommas aren't watching them. The typical stereotypes I have heard all my life. if that aint racism, What is racism?

You didn't mention a race. You didn't say anything about your 5-6 conservative buddies, mentioning a race. But you go on to presume that somehow it was racial? When I talk about crack whore mammas and people on welfare and unemployed, I'm not talking about any race. I'm talking about losers and losers come in all colors. Unless there is some race that you assume everyone must be talking about when they're talking about losers like this, there's no reason to assume racism - and if there IS a race that you assume everyone must be talking about when talking about losers, then maybe you need to examine what, exactly, is going on inside your own head. Just sayin'. Everything isn't about racism but that seems to be the popular accusation today.

 

[ttwtt78640]

For African-American men, the direct contribution is the lack of personal responsibility, a point which encompasses more than what’s implicit in a simple statement. The lack of personal responsibility entails many different counter-productive attitudes, practices, and beliefs which enough black men exhibit to place the entire demographic into a state of crisis. We’ve all seen, read about, or personally know the dismal statistics: the unprecedented and shocking percentages of black males who are a part of the criminal justice system, who have multiple “baby mamas,” who are not involved in or pursue an education at levels comparable to their black female counterparts, or who are victimizing themselves through acts of black-on-black crime with seeming reckless abandon. All told, the low and dysfunctional levels of education, the casual attitude toward having (felony) criminal records, routine recreational drug use, and overly misguided-attitudes toward sexual promiscuity...

All that you say is true, yet from a purely biological point of view, they are more successful at producing offspring than by the "conventional" method that is offered as the "correct" (suggested) alternative. So long as this is true then there is no realistic "hope for change" in this behavior. To blame only the males is foolish as well, as each of these "baby mamas" volunteers for this role with the assurance of a gov't "safety net" check, increased educational (job training with childcare) opportunities and many other perks (housing) because having that child alone converts them from being simply legally "lazy" to being legally "needy" and "deserving" of gov't assistance.

 

[mak2]

So "them" people are really poor people? Oh, ok...

You didn't mention a race. You didn't say anything about your 5-6 conservative buddies, mentioning a race. But you go on to presume that somehow it was racial? When I talk about crack whore mammas and people on welfare and unemployed, I'm not talking about any race. I'm talking about losers and losers come in all colors. Unless there is some race that you assume everyone must be talking about when they're talking about losers like this, there's no reason to assume racism - and if there IS a race that you assume everyone must be talking about when talking about losers, then maybe you need to examine what, exactly, is going on inside your own head. Just sayin'. Everything isn't about racism but that seems to be the popular accusation today.

 

[MaggieD]

If living in America was a 100 yards race....the blacks would be at the starting line ...and the whites would be at the 30 yard line waiting for the gun to start the race. And all the time ...the whites would try to convince anybody who ask that ... no...no...they are really at the starting line!

I think you have that reversed, actually.

It's just that far too many baby's mama's handicap their children to, not the starting line, but 50 feet back.

 

[wolfie]

I think you have that reversed, actually.

It's just that far too many baby's mama's handicap their children to, not the starting line, but 50 feet back.

Inherent poverty? If that's all a child can aspire to..watching her mother used as a receptacle?

I think these attitudes go much deeper than that..

Back to Africa!

 

[ttwtt78640]

It's tiring and pointless to argue the issue of racism in America.

America still today ....want to be a racist society under the pretense that we live equally.

In fact it would be frightening to the white population for example ...if all the blacks in America were leaving the country.
Know why .....whites need to see blacks to feel valid in America's racist society.
They (whites) may not want them(blacks) as their immediate neighbors ....but they need them here for their physiological well being.

If living in America was a 100 yards race....the blacks would be at the starting line ...and the whites would be at the 30 yard line waiting for the gun to start the race. And all the time ...the whites would try to convince anybody who ask that ... no...no...they are really at the starting line!

In my view a white male in America at 55 to 60 who don't own at least one home (not paying mortgage)....and cannot retire is worth-less given this advantage.

Total nonsense. If a black person fails to get a free public education, a job, obey the law and enjoy modest economic success it is the fault of society, if a white person fails to do the same then that is their own damn fault. This attitude is pure racism, of the sort commonly spewed by "black leaders" (race hustling poverty pimps?). The message is self fulfilling; give up, drop out, breed as you wish, elect liberals, demand gov't handouts (reparations?) since you (as a black person) have no chance to succeed based on your own efforts/merits in racist America - without the special "help" of gov't.

 

[Muhammed]

I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM.

:lamo

Yep, and I was sitting around having coffee with the tooth fairy and Santa Clause this morning.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Total nonsense. If a black person fails to get a free public education, a job, obey the law and enjoy modest economic success it is the fault of society, if a white person fails to do the same then that is their own damn fault. This attitude is pure racism, of the sort commonly spewed by "black leaders" (race hustling poverty pimps?). The message is self fulfilling; give up, drop out, breed as you wish, elect liberals, demand gov't handouts (reparations?) since you (as a black person) have no chance to succeed based on your own efforts/merits in racist America - without the special "help" of gov't.

Ronald Reagan once trot out Michael Jackson (back in the 80's) to proclaim ...we are equal ...blacks no longer have any racial issue in America since Jackson was wealthy!!

The irony there was ...at the time Michael Jackson was doing all he could to be white despite his success, since he was still black back then. I wish Reagan was around to see how Jackson since changed with the use of skin bleach ....even managing to have white-kids!!

Like I said America is a racial society trying to pretend there is equality.

And whites hate this conversation because under this ruse of equality ....the only reason why they(whites) are better off must be because .....they are ..."that good"!!

It's just simple ..... every facet of life in America favors you if you're white.... the end.

 

[MaggieD]

Ronald Reagan once trot out Michael Jackson (back in the 80's) to proclaim ...we are equal ...blacks no longer have any racial issue in America since Jackson was wealthy!!

The irony there was ...at the time Michael Jackson was doing all he could to be white despite his success, since he was still black back then. I wish Reagan was around to see how Jackson since changed with the use of skin bleach ....even managing to have white-kids!!

Like I said America is a racial society trying to pretend there is equality.

And whites hate this conversation because under this ruse of equality ....the only reason why they(whites) are better off must be because .....they are ..."that good"!!

It's just simple ..... every facet of life in America favors you if you're white.... the end.

You are part of the problem.

When a race of people decides they don't care about education, don't trust the coppers enough to clean up their own neighborhoods, see going on entitlement programs as job objectives? I guess they might look at others who don't think that way as someone to blame something on.

But they'd be wrong. And so would you.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

You are part of the problem.

When a race of people decides they don't care about education, don't trust the coppers enough to clean up their own neighborhoods, see going on entitlement programs as job objectives? I guess they might look at others who don't think that way as someone to blame something on.

But they'd be wrong. And so would you.

You're diving into the symptom of the problem dude.... to follow you down this narrow path is to miss the big picture.

America's most significant history is slavery....it's effects are baked in and infused into every facet of our society. It's one single thing that all whites line up behind democrats, republicans, libertarians, tea party...whatever.

And today's beneficiary(whites) of this effect love to pretend that it doesn't exist.....they hate anybody who draws attention to this fact.

 

[MaggieD]

You're diving into the symptom of the problem dude.... to follow you down this narrow path is to miss the big picture.

America's most significant history is slavery....it's effects are baked in and infused into every facet of our society. It's one single thing that all whites line up behind democrats, republicans, libertarians, tea party...whatever.

And today's beneficiary(whites) of this effect love to pretend that it doesn't exist.....they hate anybody who draws attention to this fact.

No, American's most significant history is its birthday. Mistakes were made. Our nation began to correct them with the Emancipation Proclamation. Continued to correct them by the various Civil Rights Acts and Affirmative Action.

To say we should to wring our hands and gnash our teeth over our past is ridiculous. In every society there will be bigots...there will be people prejudiced against the least of us...all over the world...slavery or no.

Many blacks have their own ghetto speak. Then they wonder why Apple won't hire them. They don't value education. Then they wonder why Apple won't hire them. They won't police their own neighborhoods by cooperating with the coppers. Then they wonder why cops have a problem dealing with their crime. They raise their children in neighborhoods where getting to and from school is like traversing a war zone. And then they wonder why they die.

They look to the nanny state to even the playing field of some imaginary injustice being done to them today. The Democratic Party is more than happy to play the music they dance to. And so are their so-called leaders: the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and hate ministers the likes of Rev. Jeremiah White.

 

[ChrisL]

No, American's most significant history is its birthday. Mistakes were made. Our nation began to correct them with the Emancipation Proclamation. Continued to correct them by the various Civil Rights Acts and Affirmative Action.

To say we should to wring our hands and gnash our teeth over our past is ridiculous. In every society there will be bigots...there will be people prejudiced against the least of us...all over the world...slavery or no.

Many blacks have their own ghetto speak. Then they wonder why Apple won't hire them. They don't value education. Then they wonder why Apple won't hire them. They won't police their own neighborhoods by cooperating with the coppers. Then they wonder why cops have a problem dealing with their crime. They raise their children in neighborhoods where getting to and from school is like traversing a war zone. And then they wonder why they die.

They look to the nanny state to even the playing field of some imaginary injustice being done to them today. The Democratic Party is more than happy to play the music they dance to. And so are their so-called leaders: the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and hate ministers the likes of Rev. Jeremiah White.

Great post Maggie! :agree

 

[opendebate]

Indeed, I see where you are going. Choosing your words very carefully in order not to use any terms that try to define "hip-hop culture" as being associated with/originating from urban blacks. That is just as disengenuous as saying that crime rates are similar in areas of major U.S. cities with a majority minority population or that they are usually also NASCAR fans. You wish to deny that any cultural differences exist or that they are not seen as destructive or scary by many people (black and white) - typically followed by white folks (or oreos), with their white privilege, cannot understand that this is the new "urban" normal. As to using Eminem (and his "troubles") as an example of not being refered to as a thug or ghetto, you omit his own claims to applying those labels to himself, that is why he is popular in that "hip-hop" music scene (but you probably knew that).

What is Hip Hop Culture?

EMINEM LYRICS - Renegade

How old are you? Do you always base your decisions about what you do or do not do on what those around you are doing….try thinking for yourself.
Secondly, as far as the reactions of “Black Leaders” I don’t know what you are referring to and I don’t know how they would react to anything, I’m not black….are you? But I have wonder…have you ever been kept from achieving what you want in life because of what you look like? Something tells me no, either that or you are just incapable of empathy and compassion. It’s much easier to hate than to help. You their pissed for no reason? Think again.
Finally, you think you can just walk up to someone and tell them how to change and their going to do it right there on the spot. Why....because you're the great white hope here to lead the down trodden out of the mire. And if they don’t jump on it somehow that’s THEIR failing. Grow up. You share alternatives and opportunity because it's the right thing to do for your fellow man and you take each case on an individual basis. Some people will respond immediately and alter their path so that they get better results in their lives and some will reject for a variety of reasons. But you keep offering and you wait. I’m not suggesting you strip people of their dignity by doing it for them, or taking care of them because they can’t to do it themselves. Do you see the difference here?
It’s not as simple as you would like to make it. It’s not the good guys vs the bad guys and everyone is easily identified and given the right color hat.

 

[Ray410]

You're wasting your time and your life if you're focusing on hating whites because of slavery. Reason: Whites never think about slavery. Many don't even care because we weren't there and we weren't responsible for slavery or any results you believe you have from slavery. Your black leaders should be telling you to forget slavery and focus on family and education and getting ahead in life. You cannot make it not have happened no matter how much you berate white people.

 

[Papa bull]

So "them" people are really poor people? Oh, ok...

Apparently not in your head. No race was mentioned but obviously you pictured people in your head..... What color were the people in your head?

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM. Zimmerman came up but quickly shifted to "them" people and thugs. All these people are well educated and either have positions of or are recently retired from positions in which they are in charge of others. A couple lots of others. Listening to them talk it dawned on me, I dont even know what racism is, I guess. none of these people would say they were racist, but yet they refereed to them people being on welfare and being druggies and unemployed, and lazy etc. The reason kids like Martin get shot is because their crack whore mommas aren't watching them. The typical stereotypes I have heard all my life. if that aint racism, What is racism?

Well, there are two things you should consider here: One is that there are some very real systemic issues within the black community that lead to rather high levels of crime, drug usage, single parent families, welfare dependency, etc. And pointing these out and identifying them shouldn't be considered racist.

Personally, I see it as a mixture of historical, social, and economic factors leading to the establishment of various cultural behaviors that only help perpetuate such issues. And which helps to facilitate an atmosphere that works against integration

The second one is that once you stop treating people as individuals, and assuming that they suffer from these ills, or can't over come them, simply due to being black, you adopt a clearly racist mindset.

 

[mak2]

Almost everyone I know is conservobot. In fact, I once was myself. See if you are on Santa's ****list next time you talk to him.

:lamo

Yep, and I was sitting around having coffee with the tooth fairy and Santa Clause this morning.