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Racism

mak2

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I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM. Zimmerman came up but quickly shifted to "them" people and thugs. All these people are well educated and either have positions of or are recently retired from positions in which they are in charge of others. A couple lots of others. Listening to them talk it dawned on me, I dont even know what racism is, I guess. none of these people would say they were racist, but yet they refereed to them people being on welfare and being druggies and unemployed, and lazy etc. The reason kids like Martin get shot is because their crack whore mommas aren't watching them. The typical stereotypes I have heard all my life. if that aint racism, What is racism?
 

Barnabas Collins

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Not sure but have you wondered why Zimmerman is not correctly identified as Hispanic as well as having black heritage? It is almost as if the media wants to make this a racial issue of a bad white guy shooting an innocent black teen.
 

mak2

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I think that is why the Conservatives rushed to Z's defense, MSNBC tried to make it sound like a white guy popped a black kid.
Not sure but have you wondered why Zimmerman is not correctly identified as Hispanic as well as having black heritage? It is almost as if the media wants to make this a racial issue of a bad white guy shooting an innocent black teen.
 

ttwtt78640

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I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM. Zimmerman came up but quickly shifted to "them" people and thugs. All these people are well educated and either have positions of or are recently retired from positions in which they are in charge of others. A couple lots of others. Listening to them talk it dawned on me, I dont even know what racism is, I guess. none of these people would say they were racist, but yet they refereed to them people being on welfare and being druggies and unemployed, and lazy etc. The reason kids like Martin get shot is because their crack whore mommas aren't watching them. The typical stereotypes I have heard all my life. if that aint racism, What is racism?

That is clearly bigotry, sterotyping or prejudice, yet not necessarily racism. Racism is the belief that race alone makes a person inferior to persons of another race. Obviously "people on welfare", "people that are unemployed", "lazy people" or "people abusing drugs" is not referring to race alone. Do you doubt that TM suffered from lack of parental attention? It was three days before TM's parents identifiied the body - surely if your teenage son is missing then you would call local police. It was reported that TM's father had called local hospitals in an attempt to locate his son, yet never called the police it seems. TM's parents were also said to be "unaware" of his school suspensions or of the reasons for them.
 

mak2

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I did not know it was 3 days before he was identified.
That is clearly bigotry, sterotyping or prejudice, yet not necessarily racism. Racism is the belief that race alone makes a person inferior to persons of another race. Obviously "people on welfare", "people that are unemployed", "lazy people" or "people abusing drugs" is not referring to race alone. Do you doubt that TM suffered from lack of parental attention? It was three days before TM's parents identifiied the body - surely if your teenage son is missing then you would call local police. It was reported that TM's father had called local hospitals in an attempt to locate his son, yet never called the police it seems. TM's parents were also said to be "unaware" of his school suspensions or of the reasons for them.
 

MaggieD

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I think that is why the Conservatives rushed to Z's defense, MSNBC tried to make it sound like a white guy popped a black kid.

No, I think people rushed to his defense because blacks were wildly protesting that he hadn't been charged and throwing around racist charges of their own.
 

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I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM. Zimmerman came up but quickly shifted to "them" people and thugs. All these people are well educated and either have positions of or are recently retired from positions in which they are in charge of others. A couple lots of others. Listening to them talk it dawned on me, I dont even know what racism is, I guess. none of these people would say they were racist, but yet they refereed to them people being on welfare and being druggies and unemployed, and lazy etc. The reason kids like Martin get shot is because their crack whore mommas aren't watching them. The typical stereotypes I have heard all my life. if that aint racism, What is racism?

Sometimes reality is reality whether one likes it or not :shock:
 

mak2

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So are you saying the stereo types are correct, so it is not racism?
Sometimes reality is reality whether one likes it or not :shock:
 

Fisher

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So are you saying the stereo types are correct, so it is not racism?

I am saying sometimes stereotypes are true to the circumstance. It isn't like people make these things up out of thin air--they are generalizations drawn from reality. For me the bigger issue isn't what your friends said, but that you are so sensitive that you expect them to parse their words around you and articulate politically correct qualifications in things they say. If you don't like what they say, find other friends.
 

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So are you saying the stereo types are correct, so it is not racism?


There was a study not long ago, I think in Chicago... black cabbies were refusing to pick up black men 18-35yo after midnight, citing safety concerns.

Obviously black cabbies can't be racist against black passengers... so what is it? It's called "being real". For whatever reasons (and there are many, social and cultural and economic and etc, enough to talk about for days), you have a lot more black males age 18-35 committing a lot more violent crime than most other demographics. It is what it is.


White people can be welfare queens, crack ho's and bad parents too, of course... stereotypes are often overgeneralized... but there are problems in the black community that have never been adequately addressed and part of the reason is everyone is terrified of being labeled "racist" for even talking about them.
 

Campbell

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I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM. Zimmerman came up but quickly shifted to "them" people and thugs. All these people are well educated and either have positions of or are recently retired from positions in which they are in charge of others. A couple lots of others. Listening to them talk it dawned on me, I dont even know what racism is, I guess. none of these people would say they were racist, but yet they refereed to them people being on welfare and being druggies and unemployed, and lazy etc. The reason kids like Martin get shot is because their crack whore mommas aren't watching them. The typical stereotypes I have heard all my life. if that aint racism, What is racism?

Here in east Tennessee it's about as bad as anywhere else in the south with the possible exception of Mississippi and Alabama. The offspring of the Confederacy just never have gotten their **** together. The girl that my son married was born and raised in Montgomery, Alabama and her family put on one of the old slavery times southern weddings complete with all black servants and waiters. That was about 15 years ago. As far as west Tennessee... it's north Mississippi....plain and simple. It's all I can do to keep my mouth shut when I hear some half wit, tobacco chewing product of a trailer park bad mouthing blacks.
 

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I was sitting around drinking coffee with 5-6 of my conservative friends early this AM. Zimmerman came up but quickly shifted to "them" people and thugs. All these people are well educated and either have positions of or are recently retired from positions in which they are in charge of others. A couple lots of others. Listening to them talk it dawned on me, I dont even know what racism is, I guess. none of these people would say they were racist, but yet they refereed to them people being on welfare and being druggies and unemployed, and lazy etc. The reason kids like Martin get shot is because their crack whore mommas aren't watching them. The typical stereotypes I have heard all my life. if that aint racism, What is racism?

This is a prime example as to why I partially believe in Affirmative Action as I believe we as Americans have not arrived at a level of meritocracy. We are still a racially conscious society where we in a lot of instances people whp hold these views you mentioned are purposefully blind at their own own innate racist feelings. As an African American who holds an advance degree, I still see the residue of racism almost everyday. Not just within my own life but in society. Frankly, it doesn't matter how educated you are after all wasn't Watson (the co founder of the double helix) the one who believed blacks were genetically inferior?

Though the goal of higher learning is meant to rid potential professional students of racist feelings, often times stubbuorness or an unwillingness to accept humans for who they are, are hard things to change in people.
 

ttwtt78640

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This is a prime example as to why I partially believe in Affirmative Action as I believe we as Americans have not arrived at a level of meritocracy. We are still a racially conscious society where we in a lot of instances people whp hold these views you mentioned are purposefully blind at their own own innate racist feelings. As an African American who holds an advance degree, I still see the residue of racism almost everyday. Not just within my own life but in society. Frankly, it doesn't matter how educated you are after all wasn't Watson (the co founder of the double helix) the one who believed blacks were genetically inferior?

Though the goal of higher learning is meant to rid potential professional students of racist feelings, often times stubbuorness or an unwillingness to accept humans for who they are, are hard things to change in people.

Just how is using AA, a race conscious "remedy", not simply affirming to those racists that without such "boost points" it would not be possible for merit alone to acheive equality? I firmly agree that with proof of intentional racial bias, one should be afforded legal remedy for damages, but to simply state that inequality of outcome proves inequality of opportunity is insane. Would you say that the NBA is racist based on its current under-representaiotn of Asians and whites? Then why judge a business or educational faclility based on simple racial statistics?
 

Hypersonic

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Just how is using AA, a race conscious "remedy", not simply affirming to those racists that without such "boost points" it would not be possible for merit alone to acheive equality? I firmly agree that with proof of intentional racial bias, one should be afforded legal remedy for damages, but to simply state that inequality of outcome proves inequality of opportunity is insane. Would you say that the NBA is racist based on its current under-representaiotn of Asians and whites? Then why judge a business or educational faclility based on simple racial statistics?

I used Affirmative Action as an example because the entire concept behind Affirmative Action is that since society has not entirely evolved into a level playing field and since historically most minorities had an unfair advantage in education the concept is to create a level playing field (FYI women actually benefit the most by Affirmative Action). So in using that example I wanted to highlight the fact that despite me contributing positively to society and have attained a higher education for myself, despite judging me based on the merits of my character society still looks and judge me by my skin pigmentation. Not only that, I have to answer to the actions of other African-Americans and some of the deviance they commit. Unfortunately we live in a society that is comfortable in brushing an entire ethnic community based on the actions of a few, and many believe impoverished urban communities create a self-fulfilling prophecy without knowning the dynamics of being impoverished and being black in a society that has already deemed many in the urban community as degenerate.

I was merely making the connection between the lack of social acceptance based on character (merit) and blindly judging those based on racial attitudes and criminal statistics which has no relationship to the entire community.
 

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Not sure but have you wondered why Zimmerman is not correctly identified as Hispanic as well as having black heritage? It is almost as if the media wants to make this a racial issue of a bad white guy shooting an innocent black teen.

You're both right.

People are exploiting this case for whatever their racist bias is: either the belief that black people are a bunch of "crackhead welfare leeches," or that white people are a bunch of power-hungry violent bigots.

I have no interest in this case. I will let the law work it out -- at least as well as it can, in the midst of the media circus -- and that is of no concern to me.

But the Zimmerman/Martin case is useful for one thing. The way that people on the extremes feel about this case reveals something very telling about their racial beliefs.
 

ttwtt78640

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I used Affirmative Action as an example because the entire concept behind Affirmative Action is that since society has not entirely evolved into a level playing field and since historically most minorities had an unfair advantage in education the concept is to create a level playing field (FYI women actually benefit the most by Affirmative Action). So in using that example I wanted to highlight the fact that despite me contributing positively to society and have attained a higher education for myself, despite judging me based on the merits of my character society still looks and judge me by my skin pigmentation. Not only that, I have to answer to the actions of other African-Americans and some of the deviance they commit. Unfortunately we live in a society that is comfortable in brushing an entire ethnic community based on the actions of a few, and many believe impoverished urban communities create a self-fulfilling prophecy without knowning the dynamics of being impoverished and being black in a society that has already deemed many in the urban community as degenerate.

I was merely making the connection between the lack of social acceptance based on character (merit) and blindly judging those based on racial attitudes and criminal statistics which has no relationship to the entire community.

Do you honestly believe that most of society is racist? You wish not to be judged by the actions of a minority of blacks that commit crime, yet willingly paint "society" (most whites?) as racist - how is that so different from the attitude that you claim to destest? I see your point to an extent, but I am not sure that you see mine. There are far more poor whites than poor blacks, yet AA is still race/gender based and not economically based.
 

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That is clearly bigotry, sterotyping or prejudice, yet not necessarily racism. Racism is the belief that race alone makes a person inferior to persons of another race. Obviously "people on welfare", "people that are unemployed", "lazy people" or "people abusing drugs" is not referring to race alone. Do you doubt that TM suffered from lack of parental attention? It was three days before TM's parents identifiied the body - surely if your teenage son is missing then you would call local police. It was reported that TM's father had called local hospitals in an attempt to locate his son, yet never called the police it seems. TM's parents were also said to be "unaware" of his school suspensions or of the reasons for them.

No, it is based on race based on the context its used. For example words referring to Trayvon such as "thug" "ghetto" are racially charged because experience has shown that often times words can be coded to make reference to a person's ethnicity.
 

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GM ...murdered the kid ..plain and simple. It's the closest thing I've seen to the frequent public black lynchings that occurred during the Jim Crow era.

Any rationale person could see through his overly dramatic "story" when he claimed ..Travon said ..."ARRRGHH you're gonna die tonight".....and when he shot the kid he said ...."ARRGGH you got me"!! Sounds like something you read in a comic book.

Anyway Racism is still today ....how you define America.

Unlike a country like China for example, with a very deep and rich history ....SLAVERY ...is America's only significant history.
 

Hypersonic

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Do you honestly believe that most of society is racist? You wish not to be judged by the actions of a minority of blacks that commit crime, yet willingly paint "society" (most whites?) as racist - how is that so different from the attitude that you claim to destest? I see your point to an extent, but I am not sure that you see mine. There are far more poor whites than poor blacks, yet AA is still race/gender based and not economically based.

I still think there are large sections of society that is racist or still maintain racial prejudices. Also, please refrain from putting words in my mouth as I stated society. Society is a general term and it does not indicate "most whites" these are your words. I firmly believe that blacks just as well as whites can demonstrate racial prejudices. What I refer are the racial stereotypes that are placed upon African-Americans based on the actions of a few in a community. As I said the comment regarding Affirmative Action was an example based on the lack of meritocracy in United States society as many sectors of American society still look at sking pigmentation.

If you want another example instead of the meritocracy argument let us look at Barack Obama. Society is very comfortable calling him a Muslim based on the religious belief of his father, and often times during his first term campaign was referred to as a terrorist, an Arab, a Muslim, etc. These words no matter how you want to spin it, are racist code words because American society at least in parts of the Bible belt, was not ready for the first African-American president--or for you technical people, the first bi-racial president. Almost all the criticisms concerning our president are indirect racist attacks on the president. We critiqued whether he was American, we wanted to see his birth certificate, we question whether he is truly a patriot and a Christian. These archetypes surely represent the fear of multiculturalism and blending of cultures. The attacks on Obama as prompted by conservatives surely reflect the residue of Jim Crow era racism.
 

ttwtt78640

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No, it is based on race based on the context its used. For example words referring to Trayvon such as "thug" "ghetto" are racially charged because experience has shown that often times words can be coded to make reference to a person's ethnicity.

Nonsense. Facebook content produced/promoted by Trayvon advertised this image, including his twitter handle of no_limit_nigga. It may be simply "cool kid stuff" to some but it certainly fits the ghetto/thug description of drugs, guns, gold teeth and tattoos associated with a criminal/gang type of lifestyle - at age 16.

tm gang shot.jpg

trayvon-finger.jpg

Trayvon Martin Cell Phone Photos Show Weed, Guns And Horseback Riding
 

Grand Mal

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That is clearly bigotry, sterotyping or prejudice, yet not necessarily racism. Racism is the belief that race alone makes a person inferior to persons of another race. Obviously "people on welfare", "people that are unemployed", "lazy people" or "people abusing drugs" is not referring to race alone. Do you doubt that TM suffered from lack of parental attention? It was three days before TM's parents identifiied the body - surely if your teenage son is missing then you would call local police. It was reported that TM's father had called local hospitals in an attempt to locate his son, yet never called the police it seems. TM's parents were also said to be "unaware" of his school suspensions or of the reasons for them.

In some places the police aren't your friends. You don't call them for help.
 

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Nonsense. Facebook content produced/promoted by Trayvon advertised this image, including his twitter handle of no_limit_nigga. It may be simply "cool kid stuff" to some but it certainly fits the ghetto/thug description of drugs, guns, gold teeth and tattoos associated with a criminal/gang type of lifestyle - at age 16.

View attachment 67149990

View attachment 67149991

Trayvon Martin Cell Phone Photos Show Weed, Guns And Horseback Riding

And I've seen white kids here in California that have those same poses. All elements of kids displaying the "bad boy, hip-hop, rapper" persona. In many hoods there are plenty of people that have this type of persona and Trayvon very well maybe a legitimate thug however in most news articles and the public reaction especially a character of color people often refer to deviant behavior as "thug" "ghetto." It's quite ironic when Eminem ran into his troubles people referred to him as "disturbed" "crazy" rather than referring to him as a "thug" or "ghetto." See where I'm going?
 

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I still think there are large sections of society that is racist or still maintain racial prejudices. Also, please refrain from putting words in my mouth as I stated society. Society is a general term and it does not indicate "most whites" these are your words. I firmly believe that blacks just as well as whites can demonstrate racial prejudices. What I refer are the racial stereotypes that are placed upon African-Americans based on the actions of a few in a community. As I said the comment regarding Affirmative Action was an example based on the lack of meritocracy in United States society as many sectors of American society still look at sking pigmentation.

If you want another example instead of the meritocracy argument let us look at Barack Obama. Society is very comfortable calling him a Muslim based on the religious belief of his father, and often times during his first term campaign was referred to as a terrorist, an Arab, a Muslim, etc. These words no matter how you want to spin it, are racist code words because American society at least in parts of the Bible belt, was not ready for the first African-American president--or for you technical people, the first bi-racial president. Almost all the criticisms concerning our president are indirect racist attacks on the president. We critiqued whether he was American, we wanted to see his birth certificate, we question whether he is truly a patriot and a Christian. These archetypes surely represent the fear of multiculturalism and blending of cultures. The attacks on Obama as prompted by conservatives surely reflect the residue of Jim Crow era racism.

It's tiring and pointless to argue the issue of racism in America.

America still today ....want to be a racist society under the pretense that we live equally.

In fact it would be frightening to the white population for example ...if all the blacks in America were leaving the country.
Know why .....whites need to see blacks to feel valid in America's racist society.
They (whites) may not want them(blacks) as their immediate neighbors ....but they need them here for their physiological well being.

If living in America was a 100 yards race....the blacks would be at the starting line ...and the whites would be at the 30 yard line waiting for the gun to start the race. And all the time ...the whites would try to convince anybody who ask that ... no...no...they are really at the starting line!

In my view a white male in America at 55 to 60 who don't own at least one home (not paying mortgage)....and cannot retire is worth-less given this advantage.
 
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I found this on Yahoo threads regarding Aaron Hernandez:

"they ought to make one with his pic on it hangin bythe neck from an old oak tree
so sick n tired of these thugs
thinkin they can do what ever n get bye with it"
 
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