Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?[W:349

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Yes, to do otherwise is a sin - then again, God also instructed, judge not lest thy be judged theyself.

Ah the verse that is the most taken out of context.... :roll:

 

[Henrin]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Ever hear the business bible's number one commandment - "the customer's always right"?

Except that is just for customers they want to do business with.

You must also feel that this photographer could deny his services to someone of another religion or an atheist or agnostic since these people as well may not be living in the image of the faith you espouse.

Sure, why not?

 

[American]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

My opinion is that the first amendment should have primacy, but I haven't thought through what implications that might have on the civil rights amendment, it may leave it meaningless. Despite that I am certain that no amendment should have primacy over the first if we wish to maintain our form of government.

Could you be more specific? What civil rights amendment?

 

[rocket88]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

To fight for what is right.

I guess if you have the money to litigate it...most small businesses do not.

 

[Master PO]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

My understanding is that rights are not ranked in any way. Instead, when rights conflict, the task is to find the least intrusive means of resolving the conflict, even if that means that one right takes a bigger hit.

i agree with you here, ..but when it comes to rights, the first thing one should ask is"who's property is it".

to force someone against there will, to preform an action, though no crime has been committed is unconstitutional

 

[johndylan1]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Could you be more specific? What civil rights amendment?

To the general question of; is there a primacy of rights? Any two will do. But in the case that I mentioned, I'm assuming that the state antidiscrimination law is based upon the 14th but not positive.

 

[fmw]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Theoretically it is impossible. In order for something to be right. It is necessary that is not cost anybody anything. If it costs somebody something, then it is is a privilege, not a right. Rights would take precedence over privileges.

 

[Dapper Andy]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

The First Amendment has many times been limited when it conflicts with the rights of others. The "shouting fire in a crowded theater" i the best known case but there are other limits as well.

A right should certainly be curtailed when it presents a clear danger to everyone else but I don't really see that being the case here.

A person should have the right to choose who they do business with, etc.

 

[johndylan1]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Theoretically it is impossible. In order for something to be right. It is necessary that is not cost anybody anything. If it costs somebody something, then it is is a privilege, not a right. Rights would take precedence over privileges.

If we accept this and apply it to the case I mentioned, how does it sound?
Party A asks for service. Party B declines. No cost apparent here (assuming other photographers exist in Albequrqe NM), Yet court says rights are violated.

 

[TiredOfLife]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

If we accept this and apply it to the case I mentioned, how does it sound?
Party A asks for service. Party B declines. No cost apparent here (assuming other photographers exist in Albequrqe NM), Yet court says rights are violated.

Yeppers.

 

[fmw]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

If we accept this and apply it to the case I mentioned, how does it sound?
Party A asks for service. Party B declines. No cost apparent here (assuming other photographers exist in Albequrqe NM), Yet court says rights are violated.

People do not a have a right to have businesses do business with them. I've been banned for life from Paypal, for instance. Nothing I can do about it. Doing business with them is a privilege and it is a privilege for them to do business with me. I can deny them my business and they can deny me theirs. You aren't talking about rights. The courts are wrong in my opinion. They often are.

 

[johndylan1]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

The constitution doesn't just talk about rights. It also grants the govt certain powers, among them the power to regulate commerce. There's no doubt that discrimination interferes with commerce.

Yea, the constitution gives congress the right to regulate interstate Commerce. As you have clearly shown here that understanding has morphed and has been perverted by the courts to push the federal governments power far beyond what it was intended to have. BTW can you tell me how a local photography job has interstate implications?

 

[Goshin]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Apparently, the primacy is that you cannot offend or discriminate in any way shape form fashion or degree, no matter how much it trashes any other rights you may have. Like, stuff actually enumerated in the BoR for instance.

 

[sangha]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Yea, the constitution gives congress the right to regulate interstate Commerce. As you have clearly shown here that understanding has morphed and has been perverted by the courts to push the federal governments power far beyond what it was intended to have. BTW can you tell me how a local photography job has interstate implications?

Marriage is an interstate business

That is particularly true at this time, when not all states allow SSM. Many SS couples travel to other states in order to get married.

In addition, people have the right to not be denied access to public accomodation on the basis of race. A photography business is a public accomodation

 

[johndylan1]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Marriage is an interstate business

That is particularly true at this time, when not all states allow SSM. Many SS couples travel to other states in order to get married.

In addition, people have the right to not be denied access to public accomodation on the basis of race. A photography business is a public accomodation

Nice equivocation, I didn't ask about marriage. I asked about photography. Besides that and to your point the case didn't even involve a marriage. The report clearly states that it was not. Now would you like to try again? How does a local photography job have interstate implications?

 

[Cameron]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

A recent state supreme court decision declared that a Christian wedding photographer would be required to work for a gay couple, photographing their ceremony, despite the photographers having religious objections.

Does the first amendment freedom of religion, or even freedom of association (or in this case the implied right to not associate), have primacy over the equal rights amendment? or vice versa? and on what basis?

There are no black and white primacy rules. It depends on the circumstances involved. The importance of the rights, the burdens on the individuals involved, and the overall affect on society, etc.

 

[sangha]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

Nice equivocation, I didn't ask about marriage. I asked about photography. Besides that and to your point the case didn't even involve a marriage. The report clearly states that it was not. Now would you like to try again? How does a local photography job have interstate implications?

When the local business serves people from all states

Businesses open to the public are "public accommodations" and are not allowed to refuse service to people who are members of "protected classes"

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

A recent state supreme court decision declared that a Christian wedding photographer would be required to work for a gay couple, photographing their ceremony, despite the photographers having religious objections.

Does the first amendment freedom of religion, or even freedom of association (or in this case the implied right to not associate), have primacy over the equal rights amendment? or vice versa? and on what basis?

Pharmacists who don't want to dispense birth control pills because of his or her religious beliefs - in my opinion - should also have to held to the same ruling. Real Estate agents who only want to sell homes to whites...not good. The list goes on.

Back to photography...

The gay couple wasn't asking the photographer to photograph the Honeymoon Consummation Event...so what's the big deal?

 

[ChezC3]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

A recent state supreme court decision declared that a Christian wedding photographer would be required to work for a gay couple, photographing their ceremony, despite the photographers having religious objections.

Does the first amendment freedom of religion, or even freedom of association (or in this case the implied right to not associate), have primacy over the equal rights amendment? or vice versa? and on what basis?

seems to me the government is now telling people who they'll work for...

I'd forget to load the film and then not accept payment.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

When the local business serves people from all states

Businesses open to the public are "public accommodations" and are not allowed to refuse service to people who are members of "protected classes"

[/thread]
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[AGENT J]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

No. Bringing someone into a church to minister to them, and hopefully see them accept Christ is something totally different than participating in a gay wedding. Also, no, writing about sin is not the same thing as sinning. Two very different concepts.

When you write about sin, you are not a part of that sin, when you photograph a wedding, you ARE a part of that wedding.

this is easily some of the most inane illogical failed logic that i have see.

all us aside this makes absolutely nonsense what so ever and is completely false. WOW

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

A recent state supreme court decision declared that a Christian wedding photographer would be required to work for a gay couple, photographing their ceremony, despite the photographers having religious objections.

Does the first amendment freedom of religion, or even freedom of association (or in this case the implied right to not associate), have primacy over the equal rights amendment? or vice versa? and on what basis?

I have an honest question ive read lots of POSTS and PEOPLE say this photographer will be forced, required etc but i havent seen that in the news. I knew they ruled it violates the law and state constitution etc and they are right but what if the photographer refuses or doesnt do it? what happens?

 

[johndylan1]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

I have an honest question ive read lots of POSTS and PEOPLE say this photographer will be forced, required etc but i havent seen that in the news. I knew they ruled it violates the law and state constitution etc and they are right but what if the photographer refuses or doesnt do it? what happens?

I'm not 100% sure but I think it was reported that they would be subject to a fine ($7000.00) and could be ordered to pay any court costs associated with the case. This could be wrong, but if I get time I'll see if I can find out for sure.

 

[johndylan1]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

seems to me the government is now telling people who they'll work for...

I'd forget to load the film and then not accept payment.

There have been cases where photographers have been sued for sub-par wedding photos or otherwise screwing up that "once in a life time special day", therefore yours is probably a bad Idea. I would suggest not complying with the ruling and not complying with any fines, just as blacks in all righteousness refused to comply and take seats in the back of the bus. They were free to sit where ever they chose to. This photographer is free to apply his profession to the subject matter he chooses imho.

 

[ChezC3]

Re: Question: When rights conflict with one another, is there a primacy of rights?

There have been cases where photographers have been sued for sub-par wedding photos or otherwise screwing up that "once in a life time special day", therefore yours is probably a bad Idea. I would suggest not complying with the ruling and not complying with any fines, just as blacks in all righteousness refused to comply and take seats in the back of the bus. They were free to sit where ever they chose to. This photographer is free to apply his profession to the subject matter he chooses imho.

Not at all, file bankruptcy on your old charter and than file for a new one. Civil disobedience might get his equipment damaged.