Query for the not-so-keen on guns...

[swing_voter]

I think most people carry because it's fun.

And you can impress your friends.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Do you wear a kung flu mask in public?

The serious adult gun owner has entered the chat.

 

[apdst]

The serious adult gun owner has entered the chat.

Do you have a first aid kit in your car?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Do you have a first aid kit in your car?

In case a serious gun owner shoots someone?

 

[noonereal]

Ok. This isn't really the topic I was trying to discuss, but since you're here...

In *theory*, a fully disarmed society *might* be more generally peaceable (though there are contradictory studies)... or at least, less inclined to murder.. The problem is there is no such society (cf the Swedish massacre, Charlie Hebdo, many other instances of illegal weapons). In America, the fact that there are well over 300 million guns in circulation, many never registered, means that even attempting to disarm society is futile short of Orwellian police-state tactics, if even then.

Even if guns were utterly illegal, you still face the risk of an armed attacker... without the means of your own, as a law abiding citizen, to effectively defend against same. For me this is not a situation I am at all in favor of.


As to the bar scenario:
Given concealed carry, neither of you would know for sure the other was armed.

Conversely, even in a society where no one could carry legally, you *still* don't know that he isn't armed... you only know *you* are *not*.

with all respect, if I was a "bad guy" and I wanted to victimize you all your gun could possible do is take a bad situation and make it worse

as a black belt cop you should understand this

 

[Bum]

I think most people carry because it's fun.

And you can impress your friends.

If you are carrying properly, no one should ever know....not even your friends.

Just my take on it.

 

[zsu2357]

="Aunt Antifa, post: 1072791534, member: 36561"]
Possibly, but they’re thrust into scenarios in which they have to act and conform to rules of engagement (hahahhaha). So they go through in intensive training (guffaw) to try to simulate things they’d face on the job. Vast majority of gun owners simply go to a range and fire at a stationary target and that’s it.

Since you seem to have a low opinion of police I do hope you really need one and they are late. Maybe one of [us] can bail you out. No not jail.

This survey was interesting and highlights both gun owners lacksidasical approach to owning their guns but also shows how much of gun ownership is about a culture vs protection:

I saw no lacksidasical approach about anything. lackadaisical is what you mean (hahaha).

2. Guns and daily life: Identity, experiences, activities and involvement

Americans own guns for a variety of reasons, and the ways in which they use their guns differ. Gun use also varies along key demographic, social and

www.pewsocialtrends.org

[/QUOTE]

 

[zsu2357]

="noonereal, post: 1072791566, member: 33384"]
with all respect, if I was a "bad guy" and I wanted to victimize you all your gun could possible do is take a bad situation and make it worse

But worse for you though.

as a black belt cop you should understand this

I'm sure he does understand. However if you were a "bad guy" chances are you may not have the chance to worry about anything.

 

[apdst]

In case a serious gun owner shoots someone?

In case of any kind of injury, but your smart ass response tells me you don't and if you're the first on the scene, you're probably going to stand there and watch that person bleed out.

 

[zsu2357]

I think most people carry because it's fun.

And you can impress your friends.

You don't get a vote on it. What is that crap?

 

[apdst]

I'd like to discuss something, mainly with those who are less than enthused about guns/weapons and do not put a high priority on armed self-defense.

This is not bait or a "gotcha" thread... I'm genuinely interested in better understanding your perspective.

I've noticed it is often the case, in debates between those who carry a gun daily and are highly security-conscious (such as myself), and those who lean more towards the other side of the fence, a disagreement centered on "fear".

It usually goes something like this:

Gun Guy says I carry everyday, I'm always conscious of my surroundings and mentally prepared.

Other Side says You live in fear. I don't want to live in fear, it's not worth it, and our society isn't that dangerous.

Gun Guy: I don't live in fear. I am confident in my ability to protect myself, so I just do what I do; what is this fear you speak of?

*********

Now I've been wondering if perhaps we (the two sides, or spectrum-curves if you prefer) are misunderstanding each other entirely over this word "fear", and the phrase, "to live in fear".

My side tends to respond as if we're being accused of the emotion of fearfulness, or of being in a state of anxiety over the possibility of being attacked, and say that No, our preparedness makes us confident, not fearful.

But perhaps that isn't what you mean?

Perhaps you're referring to the entire mindset, regardless of any emotional content or lack thereof; the whole enchilada (as it were) of being mentally prepared and equipped to deal with violence should it come your way. Perhaps you mean that is a lifestyle and mindset you want no part of, regardless of whether the emotion of fear is involved.

Would anyone from the other side of the aisle like to present their thoughts on this? I would be interested to hear them.

Let's keep this civil please... I'm hoping for a discussion, rather than a lowest-common-denominator shouting match.

It's not about fear, it's about accepting reality: CCW folks have accepted the reality that there are bad people in the world that will do bad things. Anti-gunners haven't.

Call it naivete', ignorance, or as with many on the Left: they think they'll be unaffected by the laws and restrictions that the Democrats want to pass.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

In case of any kind of injury, but your smart ass response tells me you don't and if you're the first on the scene, you're probably going to stand there and watch that person bleed out.

Ah, so you think some gun toting diipshit is gonna turn into John McClane because people keep bandaids in their cars.

Great argument well executed.

 

[apdst]

Firstly hunting and sports are not the topic of the thread and secondly that's not really what the 'anti-gun' crowd are against.

Nor is the 'anti-gun crowd' entirely against guns. Some want stricter rules about what can be bought or who can buy them; some to a greater or lesser degree than others; others on licensing and permits; only a handful want to ban civilian firearm ownership altogether. They're not a monolith.

Now back on topic: owning a gun for home defence is reasonable; carrying it to the mall in a town where you're unlikely to ever need it is a statement.

Being aware and prepared to me means being ready to run like crazy the first time I hear a shot crack off rather than fantasizing I'll be the 'good guy with a gun' who ends it all. Given that I could be just as likely to be the first person shot, and unbeknownst to me cop it in the back when a crazed incel starts lighting us up outside Walmart, having a pistol in my belt won't make a damn bit of difference. If I do know what's going on with enough time to react, I'd be better served getting me and mine the hell outta there.

The only scenario I see this being 'useful' is if I'm cornered in the bathroom with cold footsteps ringing closer down the hall. If I've thought it through to that minuscule possibility then as others have pointed out here - and more eloquently than I'm about to - I've been watching too much damn TV.

My carry piece doesn't make a statement, because no one can see it.

Will it make a difference in a free fire scenario? Maybe, maybe not. Will it make a difference in a free fire scenario if it's locked up at home? Absolutely, not; 100% guaranteed it won't.

 

[apdst]

Ah, so you think some gun toting diipshit is gonna turn into John McClane because people keep bandaids in their cars.

Great argument well executed.

Bandaids? I'm talking about a tourniquet, gauze pads, etc. Stuff to control bleeding.

 

[apdst]

with all respect, if I was a "bad guy" and I wanted to victimize you all your gun could possible do is take a bad situation and make it worse

as a black belt cop you should understand this

Unless your target had superior situational awareness and busted a cap in your ass, first.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Bandaids? I'm talking about a tourniquet, gauze pads, etc. Stuff to control bleeding.

You will *never* use your gun in defense of another human being in this country. Never.

 

[noonereal]

Unless your target had superior situational awareness and busted a cap in your ass, first.

odds are less than 1% and you know it.... yeah, there are some situations where a guy is sloppy or high and you MIGHT be able to start shooting at each other but anyone keen of mind decides to victimize you, your gun will only make a bad situation worse, like I said.

 

[apdst]

You will *never* use your gun in defense of another human being in this country. Never.

I hope you're right.

My house has never burned down, either, but I have smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in my home.

I've never had a gas leak in my home, but I have carbon monoxide detectors in my home.

My truck has never caught on fire, but I carry a fire extnguisher in my truck, my wife's car.

I have first aid supplies in my several kits that had to be replaced because of age; never had to use'em.

But, it only takes that one time, when those precautions could mean the difference between someone living, or dying.

I guess it goes to show who among truly has compassion for their fellow human beings. Some of us are prepared to attempt to save a life. Others among us are prepared to sit back and watch someone die; mostly likely videoing for Facebook.

 

[apdst]

odds are less than 1% and you know it.... yeah, there are some situations where a guy is sloppy or high and you MIGHT be able to start shooting at each other but anyone keen of mind decides to victimize you, your gun will only make a bad situation worse, like I said.

No, the odds of success are a lot higher than that.

 

[noonereal]

No, the odds of success are a lot higher than that.

OMG, really? You know damned well if I got the drop on you it's over. Good grief. Is there an honest Trump supporter in the country?

 

[uptower]

My carry piece doesn't make a statement, because no one can see it.

Will it make a difference in a free fire scenario? Maybe, maybe not. Will it make a difference in a free fire scenario if it's locked up at home? Absolutely, not; 100% guaranteed it won't.

Hey I'm packing everywhere I go too. Just not with a gun...so if a pasty crazed incel shooter gets me, at least I'll die hung.

 

[apdst]

OMG, really? You know damned well if I got the drop on you it's over. Good grief. Is there an honest Trump supporter in the country?

You probably won't get the drop on me. That brings us back to that situational awareness thing.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

I hope you're right.

My house has never burned down, either, but I have smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in my home.

I've never had a gas leak in my home, but I have carbon monoxide detectors in my home.

My truck has never caught on fire, but I carry a fire extnguisher in my truck, my wife's car.

I have first aid supplies in my several kits that had to be replaced because of age; never had to use'em.

But, it only takes that one time, when those precautions could mean the difference between someone living, or dying.

I guess it goes to show who among truly has compassion for their fellow human beings. Some of us are prepared to attempt to save a life. Others among us are prepared to sit back and watch someone die; mostly likely videoing for Facebook.

You would call professionals who can handle their shit to take care of those things. You would not mistake yourself for a firefighter if a fire broke out because you have those items. But you think a gun makes you an action hero.

 

[noonereal]

You probably won't get the drop on me. That brings us back to that situational awareness thing.

rotflmao

dismissed

 

[dave8383]

Do you wear a kung flu mask in public?

Are you OK?