Putin agrees to ceqse fire. This should make the left angry. TRUMP DID IT

[Juin]

Sending starving conscripts in human wave attacks to get massacred isn’t exactly good battle experience. They aren’t getting many “war tested soldiers” back alive.

You have a vivid imagination If a fraction of your fantasies had legs Zelensky would be in the Kremlin dictating terms.

 

[Juin]

Why?

If the Russians can send NK troops without raising the risk, why can’t the West?

Or are you saying Putin is unstable and, if so, then why make a deal with him he won’t keep?

What's wrong with sending US troops. Zelensky has been asking exactly that

 

[Loulit01]

The trip to Saudi Arabia by Ukraine was a surrender trip. I understand Zelensky the Penniless had to sign away Ukraine's minerals in exchange for not much from Trump. Poor guy.

Sure it was. Sure he did.

 

[Juin]

If Ukraine agrees to Russia’s demands, what stops Russia from simply coming back in 5 or 10 years and conquering them anyways?

Nothing. Unfortunately. It's much better to win outright

 

[Loulit01]

Nothing

So Ukraine will fight on. Three years into a war supposed to last 3 weeks. A tremendous embarrassment for Putin. The Russian military sucks big time.

And Russia still can't take Ukraine.

 

[Juin]

Russia has not rejected the cease fire, they trying to set condistions. Ukraine tried the same. Let's wait and see what happens. Talks are in progress.

Do the English, French, Germans, Poles continue arming Zelensky during the ceasefire? It would in that case be silly for the Russians to stand down for 30 days while Zelensky arms up

 

[Juin]

So Ukraine will fight on. Three years into a war supposed to last 3 weeks. A tremendous embarrassment for Putin. The Russian military sucks big time.

And Russia still can't take Ukraine.

Don't take it personal

 

[Lursa]

Besides Ukraine has only begun to fight dirty. Putin will have hell inside Russia if he won't relent.

A huge difference is...Ukraine men want to fight and wont relent...Putin's run thru most Russians and many dont want to fight at all. He doesnt have many bodies left to throw at Ukraine. Granted the type of fighting will be shifting but Russia's people dont have the commitment to the war that Ukraine's do.

 

[Lursa]

Do the English, French, Germans, Poles continue arming Zelensky during the ceasefire? It would in that case be silly for the Russians to stand down for 30 days while Zelensky arms up

Why do so during the ceasefire? Just be prepared to do so if it's broken.

Just let Russia know they're prepared to do so.

 

[LouC]

Actually now according to Trump his promise of peace in 24 hours was "sarcasm". He is so full of it that he just uses his lies as excuses now.

Quote from Trump: "Well, I was being a little bit sarcastic when I said that I would. What I really meant is I would like to get it settled, and I think I will be successful."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-promise-end-war-ukraine-192413827.html

What an ass, he even admits he is an ass, playing with sarcasm before his base to get reelected while untold numbers on both sides were getting slaughtered. The man is a nasty monster that has cursed America thanks to MAGATS et al putting him in power.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Russia has the upper hand in Kursk. Putin clearly feels he is negotiating from a position of strength and doesn't want to lose it.
"If we stop military actions for 30 days, what does that mean? Will everyone who is there leave the battle?"

Russia's defence ministry announced on Thursday that its forces had now taken full control of the biggest city the Ukrainians had managed to seize, Sudzha. Putin says all the Ukrainians have left is a wedge, so why would Russia stop now?

"If a physical blockade occurs in the coming days, no-one will be able to leave at all. There will be only two options – to surrender or die."
The same applied to the whole of the 1,000km (620-mile) front line, where he claimed the situation on the ground was changing rapidly, with Russian troops "advancing in practically all areas".That is not the case, as most of the front is at a stalemate, even if Russia has had some recent success in the east.

Putin believes a 30-day ceasefire would deprive Russia of its advantage and enable the Ukrainians to regroup and rearm.
"What are our guarantees that nothing like that will be allowed to happen," he asked rhetorically.

As yet, no mechanism has been offered to ensure that the terms of any ceasefire would hold.

Is Vladimir Putin ready for a ceasefire or playing for time?

Russia is ready for a halt in fighting, says Vladimir Putin, but he says there are "nuances".

www.bbc.com

A cease fire is pointless. I agree, why should Putin agree to a cease fire?

We should call Russia's offer what it is. A conditional surrender.

 

[anatta]

A cease fire is pointless. I agree, why should Putin agree to a cease fire?

depends on the terms, but Russia is clearly winning the war

We should call Russia's offer what it is. A conditional surrender.

If he got all his demands it would be a "conditional victory"

 

[Lord of Planar]

Not only that. A point that eludes our pompous clowns on the pro Kyiv side of the aisle is that the party with the stronger hand always demands a priori that the party with the weaker hand cannot improve its military situation during a ceasefire. That by itself guaranteed that Russia was going to punt the ball back to Rubio.

Now its not Rubio's job to offer a guarantee to Russia that Zelensky will not take advantage of the ceasefire to replenish his battered Bandera Divisions. It is for Russians to ask. Which they have done.

This is exactly why Russia will not agree to a cease fire. Zelensky has already proven he has no integrity. There is no way to keep either side from strengthening their position, and Putin will not agree to a situation that can reverse the tables on him.

Here it gets tricky. The Americans can offer not to replenish Zelensky's Bandera goons. Fine. But the Russians will point out that the English*, French are vowing to do exactly that. In which case it would be silly for Russians to stand down while the English and French arm up Zelensky's Waffen SS.

Yep. I don't understand why they are helping. they stand alone without NATO or the UN backing them up, and it would not surprise me if Putin drops a bomb, missile, or drone attack them if they help in any significant way.

Maybe it's about time Trump sends an envoy to the Eu to sound them out on possible ceasefire. This envoy will also carry a stick: heavy tariffs if the English play any games.

Let's get real. A cease fore is now out of the question. Ukraine needs to agree to the conditional surrender, or no longer be.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Where did you get that from?

Part of Putin's demands to stop the war include limits on military assets on his borders, which is reasonable. Ukraine already had a limit prior to this of the war equipment they could have. I saw the numbers before, but I forget how the changes from before to his demands now would be.

 

[anatta]

Not only that. A point that eludes our pompous clowns on the pro Kyiv side of the aisle is that the party with the stronger hand always demands a priori that the party with the weaker hand cannot improve its military situation during a ceasefire. That by itself guaranteed that Russia was going to punt the ball back to Rubio.

Now its not Rubio's job to offer a guarantee to Russia that Zelensky will not take advantage of the ceasefire to replenish his battered Bandera Divisions. It is for Russians to ask. Which they have done.

Here it gets tricky. The Americans can offer not to replenish Zelensky's Bandera goons. Fine. But the Russians will point out that the English*, French are vowing to do exactly that. In which case it would be silly for Russians to stand down while the English and French arm up Zelensky's Waffen SS.

Maybe it's about time Trump sends an envoy to the Eu to sound them out on possible ceasefire. This envoy will also carry a stick: heavy tariffs if the English play any games.



*I think I prefer to call the United Kingdom England. As opposed to Britishland. Everyone in Britishland, expect the English, seems to be fixing to bolt. The Scots all but bolted, held back only by the ankles. Belfast has over time appeared to soften to Dublin. The only folks showing zero desire to bolt appear to be the English and recently arrived Mahometans. A match made in heaven. If I was still a drinking man I would have emptied a gallon to England. But with what? Heineken is Irish. Johnnie Walker is Irish. What? After decades of drinking I can't recall a brand associated with England? And I am not going to insult English hooligans by drinking to England with Heineken. O dear!

Maybe it's about time Trump sends an envoy to the Eu to sound them out on possible ceasefire. This envoy will also carry a stick: heavy tariffs if the English play any games.

good idea on coordinating with the EU

 

[Lord of Planar]

The trip to Saudi Arabia by Ukraine was a surrender trip. I understand Zelensky the Penniless had to sign away Ukraine's minerals in exchange for not much from Trump. Poor guy.

The positive aspect of giving the USA mineral rights is we would be vested in protecting at least that part of Ukraine.

 

[j brown's body]

The positive aspect of giving the USA mineral rights is we would be vested in protecting at least that part of Ukraine.

Although, whore that he is, Russia could simply offer Trump a better deal.

 

[j brown's body]

Part of Putin's demands to stop the war include limits on military assets on his borders, which is reasonable. Ukraine already had a limit prior to this of the war equipment they could have. I saw the numbers before, but I forget how the changes from before to his demands now would be.

It's reasonable for Putin to demand limits on military assets on his borders because he crosses them to invade other countries, but there is no logical reason why anyone else should agree.

 

[Lord of Planar]

So we SHOULD send US troops too, then.

Never. The straw that broke the camels back was the illegal ousting of Ukraine's president in 2014. Putin now will not stop short of having at least the initial three regions. Before, he might have conceded Donetsk and Luhansk, but this has gone too far and spent too much to let them go now.

If it wasn't for the 2014 coup, this might not have happened. Putin took Crimea because of the west's encroachment on Ukraine. Ukraine use to trade with both Russia and the EU. their president was ousted because the EU wanted to make them a member, but wanted trade with Russia to cease. Yanukovych was ousted for agreeing to a $15 billion trade agreement with Russia. This caused Russia to worry about losing their lease for the navel base in Sevastopol, which is totally unacceptable from a national security position.

The riots occurred with was also pressing because the ethnic Russians in Ukraine were being attacked by Ukraine.

One huge mess just because we western nations wanted Ukraine to fall under the umbrella of the EU.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Sending starving conscripts in human wave attacks to get massacred isn’t exactly good battle experience. They aren’t getting many “war tested soldiers” back alive.

Your recital of propaganda is noted.

 

[CaughtInThe]

I mean, what kind of total dumbasses believe the things that Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump say????

 

[SCrider]

Yes, that is technically what it is. The alternative is worse for

lol

 

[iguanaman]

It absolutely matters.

Did Hitler's motives matter?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Did Hitler's motives matter?

Yes, they matter too. Hitler's motive were not good motives though.

What matters is understanding why things happen. To assume, or be told lies, is not very good.

 

[Questerr]

And where did you see a starving North Korean?

Russia is sending them into combat in Ukraine and has been for a couple months now.