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jimmyjack

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Problem: Pro-Choice say they want abortion legal so they can choose whether to be pregnant or not.

Response: You can still choose to be pregnant or not without abortion. What Pro-Choice want is the freedom to have sex then midway through pregnancy rid themselves of their future son or daughter.

That is not humane.

Problem: But the pregnancy was an accident, the condom split.

Response: You know condoms split and you know that contraceptives are not 100% reliable, should another human die because of your irresponsibility.

Problem: It is not a human.

Response: WRONG! All living things belong to a species and the foetus is a living thing, for that reason a foetus must belong to a species, and that species is human.
 

IValueFreedom

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jimmyjack said:
Problem: It is not a human.

Response: WRONG! All living things belong to a species and the foetus is a living thing, for that reason a foetus must belong to a species, and that species is human.
Please show two things to help defend your position:

1) What characteristic makes something 'living'?

2) How does this make it within the human species.
 

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IValueFreedom said:
Please show two things to help defend your position:

1) What characteristic makes something 'living'?

2) How does this make it within the human species.
1) Because it is not dead, at least prior to being aborted.

2) Because it is not a dog, cat or any other species, it is a human species; it has the minimum number of chromosomes to be classed as human.
 

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jimmyjack said:
1) Because it is not dead, at least prior to being aborted.

2) Because it is not a dog, cat or any other species, it is a human species; it has the minimum number of chromosomes to be classed as human.
1) So are skin cells, liver cells, bacteria, protozoa, hydrae, and any other living thing. What's your point?

2) So do sheep. They have 46 chromosomes like humans. So, whats your point?
 
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jimmyjack said:
Problem: Pro-Choice say they want abortion legal so they can choose whether to be pregnant or not.

Response: You can still choose to be pregnant or not without abortion. What Pro-Choice want is the freedom to have sex then midway through pregnancy rid themselves of their future son or daughter.

That is not humane.

Problem: But the pregnancy was an accident, the condom split.

Response: You know condoms split and you know that contraceptives are not 100% reliable, should another human die because of your irresponsibility.

Problem: It is not a human.

Response: WRONG! All living things belong to a species and the foetus is a living thing, for that reason a foetus must belong to a species, and that species is human.
#1) Women who do not want to become pregnant still have something called unwanted pregnancies. Pro Choicers do not wan the right to "choose to become pregnant or not" we want the safe and legal right to END and unwanted pregnancy or a pregnancy that is harmful to our health.
#2) Condoms break, and even if the woman is using another form of birth control, that can always fail. A condom breaking or birth control failing is not irresponsible behavior for anyone. It is something that they cannot control.
#3) Pro Choicers have never once stated that a fetus is not a HUMAN. Try again.
 

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IValueFreedom said:
Please show two things to help defend your position:

1) What characteristic makes something 'living'?

2) How does this make it within the human species.

You have got to be kidding. The burden of proof here would actually lie with you. The opposite of alive is dead, so I would love to see you prove the fetus is dead. Next, simple biological fact states that two humans reproduce a human, if you have proof that the fetus is of another species or that it is even possible for two humans to reproduce something of another species I am sure many on this board would like to see it. Either way the burden to prove one's case is on you. GOOD LUCK!! (you're going to need it):cool:
 

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jallman said:
1) So are skin cells, liver cells, bacteria, protozoa, hydrae, and any other living thing. What's your point?

2) So do sheep. They have 46 chromosomes like humans. So, whats your point?
Bacteria is not human, neither are most of the other things you mention, but skin cells are, however, if I destroy some of my skin cells this if fine since I'm still alive, if you destroy a foetus, you have destroy an entire unique individual. The unique individual comes into existence at conception.

A Skin cell is not a human, they are just human cells,

Sperm is not a human, just human cells.


Sheep are not human.
 
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ProChoiceDanielle said:
#1) Women who do not want to become pregnant still have something called unwanted pregnancies. Pro Choicers do not wan the right to "choose to become pregnant or not" we want the safe and legal right to END and unwanted pregnancy or a pregnancy that is harmful to our health.
So you don't want to become pregnant, but you take action that may lead to pregnancy. Wise move!
ProChoiceDanielle said:
#2) Condoms break, and even if the woman is using another form of birth control, that can always fail. A condom breaking or birth control failing is not irresponsible behavior for anyone. It is something that they cannot control.
So you know this yet you still have sex, in the full knowledge that you may become pregnant, well you can control it, so that is a lie, it is call abstinence.
ProChoiceDanielle said:
#3) Pro Choicers have never once stated that a fetus is not a HUMAN. Try again.
So stop killing humans, deliberately, just so you can enjoy a cheap shag.
 
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jimmyjack said:
So you don't want to become pregnant, but you take action that may lead to pregnancy. Wise move!

So you know this yet you still have sex, in the full knowledge that you may become pregnant, well you can control it, so that is a lie, it is call abstinence.


So stop killing humans, deliberately, just so you can enjoy a cheap shag.

So you are basically saying that a woman who does not wish to have children, ever, should never have sex no matter if she is married, has a tubal, or is on birth control?

Abstinence is not a choice for a married woman who does not wish to have children.

LOL! Your views of abortion and women who have abortions are beyond warped. :roll:
Take some time and look at the statistics instead of making ignorant stereotypical comments.
 

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ProChoiceDanielle said:
So you are basically saying that a woman who does not wish to have children, ever, should never have sex no matter if she is married, has a tubal, or is on birth control?

Abstinence is not a choice for a married woman who does not wish to have children.

LOL! Your views of abortion and women who have abortions are beyond warped. :roll:
Take some time and look at the statistics instead of making ignorant stereotypical comments.
What I'm saying is, stop killing humans in exchange for sex.

Killing humans is warped.

I bet you’re the type that would cry if you saw a cat getting torn to bits by a dog, yet your quite happy to see your son or daughter torn to pieces by an abortionist, that is warped.
 
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jimmyjack said:
What I'm saying is, stop killing humans in exchange for sex.

Killing humans is warped.

I bet you’re the type that would cry if you saw a cat getting torn to bits by a dog, yet your quite happy to see your son or daughter torn to pieces by an abortionist, that is warped.
Again, there is a difference between a living creature who can know they are being killed, and feel pain, and a 6 week fetus.
 

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ProChoiceDanielle said:
Again, there is a difference between a living creature who can know they are being killed, and feel pain, and a 6 week fetus.
So pain is the crucial factor is it?

The whole meaning of life comes down to whether you feel pain or not, I don’t think so. Can you prove a cat feels pain, no you can’t. Can you prove a foetus feels pain, no, you can’t, and even if you can answer yes to these questions it means nothing.

If a man has an abnormality and cannot feel pain, is he any less of a person?

No, of course not, that is a pathetic statement that you present for justifying the killing of another human.
 
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jimmyjack said:
So pain is the crucial factor is it?

The whole meaning of life comes down to whether you feel pain or not, I don’t think so. Can you prove a cat feels pain, no you can’t. Can you prove a foetus feels pain, no, you can’t, and even if you can answer yes to these questions it means nothing.

If a man has an abnormality and cannot feel pain, is he any less of a person?

No, of course not, that is a pathetic statement that you present for justifying the killing of another human.
Sure a cat can feel pain, ever accidently step on a cats tail? If that is not proof enough then I do not know what is.

I justify ending an unwanted pregnancy no matter what YOU like.
 

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ProChoiceDanielle said:
Sure a cat can feel pain, ever accidently step on a cats tail? If that is not proof enough then I do not know what is.

I justify ending an unwanted pregnancy no matter what YOU like.
If a man has an abnormality and cannot feel pain, is he any less of a person?

No, of course not, that is a pathetic statement that you present for justifying the killing of another human.
 

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ProChoiceDanielle said:
Again, there is a difference between a living creature who can know they are being killed, and feel pain, and a 6 week fetus.
Is killing a man in a coma justified, since he doesn’t realise you are killing him too?
 

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jimmyjack said:
What I'm saying is, stop killing humans in exchange for sex.
Is a hydatidiform mole "a human"?
Killing humans is warped.
Ah, the usual revisionist linguistics. "humans"!! It is a fetus. Your silly attempt at blurrrying the lines between developmental stages merely makes your argument come accross as deceptive or ignorant.
I bet you’re the type that would cry if you saw a cat getting torn to bits by a dog, yet your quite happy to see your son or daughter torn to pieces by an abortionist, that is warped.
WARNING: HYPERBOLE!
 

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jimmyjack said:
A Skin cell is not a human, they are just human cells,
And this is true for the embryo and fetus as well.
Sperm is not a human, just human cells.
They are the species "human" just like PL always rant about. A hydatidiform mole is human and is the result of conception. Must be a human, in your view, right?
 

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steen said:
And this is true for the embryo and fetus as well.
They are the species "human" just like PL always rant about. A hydatidiform mole is human and is the result of conception. Must be a human, in your view, right?
So when I destroy my skin cells, with a scratch, do I die or do few of my cells die? When an abortion is carried out, does a unique individual die or just some cells? I don't die at the destruction of a few of my cells, if you kill the entire collection of cells as in abortion a unique individual dies, that individual is then extinct. Fine kill a few cells, but don't kill the entire foetus, since that is killing a human.

Does a hydatidiform mole have a beating heart?

Or its own blood type independent of the mother?

Or its own DNA?

The answer to these is NO!
 

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jimmyjack said:
So when I distroy my skin cells, with scratch, do I die or do few of my cells die?

So when I destroy my skin cells, with a scratch, do I die or do few of my cells die? When an abortion is carried out, does a unique individual die or just some cells? I don't die at the destruction of a few of my cells, if you kill the entire collection of cells as in abortion a unique individual dies, that individual is then extinct. Fine kill a few cells, but don't kill the entire foetus, since that is killing a human.

Does a hydatidiform mole have a beating heart?

Or its own blood type independent of the mother?

Or its own DNA?

The answer to these is NO!
Here is a better answer to that...it doesnt matter. The fetus is not capable of surviving outside the womb. In any event, independent of the mother, it does not have the characteristics of humanity that warrant its individual protection any more than my right hand warrants having specific legislation to protect it independent of my body. When the embryo/fetus is shown to have all of the marked traits of a developed human, then and only then will I accept that it is anything more than conglomerate of cells with the potential to become a human. Can you provide this evidence? Here let me play you the jeopardy theme while you come to the inevitable conclusion that you cant.
 

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steen said:
And this is true for the embryo and fetus as well.
They are the species "human" just like PL always rant about. A hydatidiform mole is human and is the result of conception. Must be a human, in your view, right?
Its DNA is that of the father, it is not unique. It is just cells like the skin of the father.
 
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jallman said:
Here is a better answer to that...it doesnt matter. The fetus is not capable of surviving outside the womb. In any event, independent of the mother, it does not have the characteristics of humanity that warrant its individual protection any more than my right hand warrants having specific legislation to protect it independent of my body. When the embryo/fetus is shown to have all of the marked traits of a developed human, then and only then will I accept that it is anything more than conglomerate of celss with the potential to become a human. Can you provide this evidence? Here let me play you the jeopardy theme while you come to the inevitable conclusion that you cant.
Can you survive in an oven gas mark 10? A new born baby cannot survive outside the womb on its own either.

Try again.
 

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jimmyjack said:
Can you survive in an oven gas mark 10? A new born baby cannot survive outside the womb on its own either.

Try again.
And that has what to do with the price of rice in china? But I will take your bait because you amuse me. Unlike a fetus, first of all I am aware of my surroundings and second I am capable of changing my environment to suit my survival.

Just note this, your logic is so full of holes I am not having to try. You are doing most of the work for me.

:lol:
 

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jimmyjack said:
Can a new born baby do that too?
Oh so we want to just focus on the newborn's ability to take care of itself...but just gloss over the other point that a fetus is not aware of its surroundings? Hmmm, typical.

But here again I take your bait...the difference between the newborn and the fetus is that the newborn is an individual human...the next stage in development that is protected by the constitution. It has feeling and thought and emotion and it can definitely let you know when it has needs. To abandon the newborn is neglect. You wanna approach this from a logical angle or are we just going to be privy to your emotional bellyaching about a topic that has you way out of your depth?
 

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jimmyjack said:
So when I destroy my skin cells, with a scratch, do I die or do few of my cells die?
Non-sentient human cells die
When an abortion is carried out, does a unique individual die or just some cells?
Non-sentient human cells die
I don't die at the destruction of a few of my cells, if you kill the entire collection of cells as in abortion a unique individual dies,
Nope, there is no individual until birth.
that individual is then extinct. Fine kill a few cells, but don't kill the entire foetus, since that is killing a human.
There is no "a human" until birth, your revisionist linguistics none withstanding.
Does a hydatidiform mole have a beating heart?
Irrelevant.
Or its own blood type independent of the mother?
Irrelevant.
Or its own DNA?
Yes.
The answer to these is NO!
You seem to be extraordinarily ignorant of hydatidiform moles. I suggest you educate yourself before continuing.
 
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