Police reform is not activists' job. It's the police's job.

[EMNofSeattle]

So now you are just wading deeper into conspiracy land. The issues are very well documented.

Fatal police violence by race and state in the USA, 1980–2019: a network meta-regression

We found that more than half of all deaths due to police violence that we estimated in the USA from 1980 to 2018 were unreported in the NVSS. Compounding this, we found substantial differences in the age-standardised mortality rate due to police violence over time and by racial and ethnic groups...

www.thelancet.com

I am not even going to waste my time reading that. A bunch of eggheads claiming that “fatal police violence is a public health crisis” Are claiming that for one reason only, to remove control of the police from the peoples democratic representation. Whenever eggheads are using the term public health, that is a coated dog whistle for repealing democracy.

Again almost nobody wants more crime. People instinctively don’t like to feel like they are in danger and that affects people at a much deeper level than ideology.

You are right, almost nobody does. That is why police reform so-called, is a fringe issue Supported by fringe minorities. It’s why last legislative session, Washington state passed a bunch of absurd police reform laws, that prohibited police from using force or pursuing criminals who flee from arrest. Then crime immediately shut up, and wouldn’t you know it this legislative session, the last one before the midterm elections, they repealed a bunch of those so-called reforms because people were getting really pissed at how much violent crime in car theft had gone up. These police reform so-called, measures exist only to empower criminals. Which is why you are now citing to me links claiming that police violence is a public health crisis. You know that in order to disempower the police you need to remove the people from democratic control of criminal justice issues.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You are incorrect.


Just because you think some of the claimed abuses of power are false, does not mean others which don't make the news as much aren't real.

For example, civil asset forfeiture is a thing. It shouldn't be, and is abused far beyond it's intended purpose.

When people talk about police reform, they are not talking about civil asset forfeiture. They are talking about making it illegal to detain and investigate people for suspected crimes, and to make it legally risky for a policeman to choose to use force when someone is violently resisting lawful process.

Civil asset forfeiture is a function of the courts and not the police anyway.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I am not even going to waste my time reading that. A bunch of eggheads claiming that “fatal police violence is a public health crisis” Are claiming that for one reason only, to remove control of the police from the peoples democratic representation. Whenever eggheads are using the term public health, that is a coated dog whistle for repealing democracy.

I figured you wouldn’t. You are more interested in feeling right than actually being right.

You are right, almost nobody does. That is why police reform so-called, is a fringe issue Supported by fringe minorities. It’s why last legislative session, Washington state passed a bunch of absurd police reform laws, that prohibited police from using force or pursuing criminals who flee from arrest. Then crime immediately shut up, and wouldn’t you know it this legislative session, the last one before the midterm elections, they repealed a bunch of those so-called reforms because people were getting really pissed at how much violent crime in car theft had gone up. These police reform so-called, measures exist only to empower criminals. Which is why you are now citing to me links claiming that police violence is a public health crisis. You know that in order to disempower the police you need to remove the people from democratic control of criminal justice issues.

Ok so it’s a tricky problem to tackle?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I figured you wouldn’t. You are more interested in feeling right than actually being right.

Ok so it’s a tricky problem to tackle?

It is not a problem at all. Tricky or otherwise. It’s only a problem because your bigger interest is inciting with criminals over law abiding citizens.

The leftist mindset, is that people who commit violent crimes do so because they are forced to by an unjust society. And therefore those who actually follow societies rules are the real criminals, while criminals who actually hurt people are just victims.

And this is why medical journals have to pathologies lawful police force as a public health crisis. The regime knows that their preferred reforms will lead to a lot more law-abiding people getting hurt by criminals, which will lead to democratic backlash. Therefore they need to remove democracy from the equation altogether.

 

[Slartibartfast]

It is not a problem at all. Tricky or otherwise. It’s only a problem because your bigger interest is inciting with criminals over law abiding citizens.

You are free to read the documentation I provided.

The leftist mindset, is that people who commit violent crimes do so because they are forced to by an unjust society. And therefore those who actually follow societies rules are the real criminals, while criminals who actually hurt people are just victims.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You are free to read the documentation I provided.

I am not going to read it. The premise is nonsense. It’s like citing to me a scientific paper that begins with saying the earth is flat.

Police use of force is not a public health issue at all, and I reject that very premise so no argument that they make is worth my time.

Now you are denying a core tenant of your beliefs as a leftist. But everyone who is watching knows it is there. This is why Jacob Blake a rapist who was attempting to steal children in a car from his victim, was himself a victim of unreasonable police violence when he was shot in order to prevent his escape with kidnaped children.

Or why Michael Brown, a man who had strong armed a store and then attempted to murder a police officer was characterized as a “gentle giant”

Leftists create these narratives, because of their belief that these criminals are the real victims in society.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You are free to read the documentation I provided.

Where are the police justified in shooting Jacob Blake, chip prevent his escape while kidnapping the children of one of his sexual assault victims. This is a yes or no question.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I am not going to read it. The premise is nonsense. It’s like citing to me a scientific paper that begins with saying the earth is flat.

Police use of force is not a public health issue at all, and I reject that very premise so no argument that they make is worth my time.

Now you are denying a core tenant of your beliefs as a leftist. But everyone who is watching knows it is there. This is why Jacob Blake a rapist who was attempting to steal children in a car from his victim, was himself a victim of unreasonable police violence when he was shot in order to prevent his escape with kidnaped children.

Or why Michael Brown, a man who had strong armed a store and then attempted to murder a police officer was characterized as a “gentle giant”

Leftists create these narratives, because of their belief that these criminals are the real victims in society.

I find it amusing that your last line was complaining about other people creating a narrative. Look in the mirror.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I find it amusing that your last line was complaining about other people creating a narrative. Look in the mirror.

The narrative has already been created. It is clear as day. None of these people demanding so-called police reform, have ever praised a police officer for using deadly force to arrest a violent criminal who needed to be stopped. Because they don’t believe the criminals should be stopped.

Were Kenosha police justified in the use of force against Jacob Blake? Yes or no?

 

[Slartibartfast]

The narrative has already been created. It is clear as day. None of these people demanding so-called police reform, have ever praised a police officer for using deadly force to arrest a violent criminal who needed to be stopped. Because they don’t believe the criminals should be stopped.

Were Kenosha police justified in the use of force against Jacob Blake? Yes or no?

Ahh, so now your back to not understanding that people don’t like crime again. You are starting to show circular logic that you yourself contradicted.

You might want to start a practice to taking calming breaths before posting.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Ahh, so now your back to not understanding that people don’t like crime again. You are starting to show circular logic that you yourself contradicted.

You might want to start a practice to taking calming breaths before posting.

People broadly do not like crime. Elite leftist who live in gated communities love it though. Or at least they act like they do. I don’t really care whether or not leftists actually love to see higher crime in the abstract, all of their policies create higher crime. And so it really makes no difference in the end. They know their policies will create more crime, and yet they still write laws that favor criminals over the police.

I noticed you are purposely evading the question on Jacob Blake. And I also know exactly why you are doing it. Because you don’t believe it was justified. Even though it is the most justified police shooting probably at the last several years. And that betrays this entire charade, if you don’t believe that police can use deadly force to stop a rapist from kidnapping children in a stolen car, then you simply support criminals and not law-abiding citizens and the police.

 

[Slartibartfast]

People broadly do not like crime. Elite leftist who live in gated communities love it though. Or at least they act like they do. I don’t really care whether or not leftists actually love to see higher crime in the abstract, all of their policies create higher crime. And so it really makes no difference in the end. They know their policies will create more crime, and yet they still write laws that favor criminals over the police.

Ok so people don’t like crime but “those people” like crime. Got it.

The truth is people don’t like crime, full stop.

I noticed you are purposely evading the question on Jacob Blake. And I also know exactly why you are doing it. Because you don’t believe it was justified. Even though it is the most justified police shooting probably at the last several years. And that betrays this entire charade, if you don’t believe that police can use deadly force to stop a rapist from kidnapping children in a stolen car, then you simply support criminals and not law-abiding citizens and the police.

So you are now telling me what I believe. This is a logical fallacy called “creating a straw man”

The Jacob Blake incident was caused by poor training and police who are incorrectly socialized to think they are constantly in danger.

 

[Slartibartfast]

But that is not true, the entire leadership apparatus of the political left in America is an acting policies that they know will lead to higher crime. So they do like higher crime because otherwise they wouldn’t even be talking about so-called police reform. If the left doesn’t like crime, then why did they condemn the justified shooting of the rapist child kidnapper Jacob Blake?

It’s literally true, people don’t like crime. You will never understand this issue until you understand that and stop othering people. Your unwillingness to believe basic human things is due to your willingness to dehumanize your perceived enemy.

Yes I am, because you will not say what you believe. And the only reason that you won’t is because you don’t want to be nailed down on your true position. Leftist do this all the time where they will claim that they don’t believe in something, and yet when they’re asked to clear and unambiguous question they refused to answer it or they attempt to further obfuscate. You will not call the shooting of rapist child kidnapper Jacob Blake justified it. And the reason you will not, is because you don’t believe it was justified.

Scroll up and you will see where I gave my opinion. It’s bad training and socialization

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Ok so people don’t like crime but “those people” like crime. Got it.

The truth is people don’t like crime, full stop.

That is not true. Because these people consistently pass laws or enact policies that they know will lead to higher crime. They wouldn’t do that unless they liked higher crime.

So you are now telling me what I believe. This is a logical fallacy called “creating a straw man”

Because you will not answer the question directly. And the only reason for not doing that is that you don’t want to give an unambiguous answer.

The Jacob Blake incident was caused by poor training and police who are incorrectly socialized to think they are constantly in danger.

I note the conspicuous lack of the word justified in this rambling nonsense.

 

[Slartibartfast]

That is not true. Because these people consistently pass laws or enact policies that they know will lead to higher crime. They wouldn’t do that unless they liked higher crime.

Not liking crime (including crimes committed by police) does not mean that the solution to the problem of crime is easy. Most of societies problems are not easy to solve. If they were then there would be no need for politics.

Crime hasn’t been solved since before Mesopotamia.

Because you will not answer the question directly. And the only reason for not doing that is that you don’t want to give an unambiguous answer.

I note the conspicuous lack of the word justified in this rambling nonsense.

I answered the question. Poor training and socialization on the part of the police.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

It’s literally true, people don’t like crime. You will never understand this issue until you understand that and stop othering people. Your unwillingness to believe basic human things is due to your willingness to dehumanize your perceived enemy.

Scroll up and you will see where I gave my opinion. It’s bad training and socialization

Bad training and socialization? So if a rapist is driving away with your kids in your stolen car you think the police should just socialize with him and not use force to stop him? You just said you don’t like crime. And here you are justifying a multiple time felon while criticizing the police for a justified shooting. You keep refusing to say it was legally justified to shoot Blake. Because you don’t believe it was, or at the very least you don’t believe it should be.

And you know that the vast majority of Americans, would disagree with that. Which is why you are obfuscating.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Bad training and socialization? So if a rapist is driving away with your kids in your stolen car you think the police should just socialize with him and not use force to stop him? You just said you don’t like crime. And here you are justifying a multiple time felon while criticizing the police for a justified shooting. You keep refusing to say it was legally justified to shoot Blake. Because you don’t believe it was, or at the very least you don’t believe it should be.

I don’t think Jacob Blake has been accused of raping anybody and I am discussing this specific incident.

And you know that the vast majority of Americans, would disagree with that. Which is why you are obfuscating.

I am my own person and many of my opinions aren’t shared by others. But I see it as I see it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I don’t think Jacob Blake has been accused of raping anybody and I am discussing this specific incident.

He wouldn’t have an arrest warrant on him for that, if nobody had accused him of it.

I am my own person and many of my opinions aren’t shared by others. But I see it as I see it.

Yeah, and your person is being pro-crime And pro criminal

 

[Slartibartfast]

He wouldn’t have an arrest warrant on him for that, if nobody had accused him of it.

Then don’t generalize your response to rape in general.

Yeah, and your person is being pro-crime And pro criminal

Given that my position is literally anti crime in all of its forms, your position gets it wrong 180 degrees.

 

[d0gbreath]

Full disclosure: In the many years that I have been a cop, I have never once met anyone who did it for the salary alone.

A rookie right out of the academy makes $54K/year, and your uniform upkeep (for patrolmen) and suits (for detectives) are on you (well, there's a stipend, but it's a joke). Nobody is getting rich on that.

That must be true. CDL holders can get twice that much to start driving a big rig for Walmart. Both truckers and cops are highly valued. One way more than the other.

 

[Luce]

That's honest enough and oddly enough when my cousin turned from law enforcement to using his badge to become a criminal he basically said the same thing. There is us and them and if you ain't wearing a blue uniform you are a them and you just haven't been caught but you're sure as hell guilty.

I'm not a big fan of that type of policing.

I didn't say that. If you want to come to a conversation and have both sides of it, please let me know that's what's happening.

 

[Luce]

And cooperation from criminals, we already played this game in the 70s. Police reform is code for “turn the streets of our cities over to hoodlums and gang bangers” and wait until we’ve had a decade like the 70s where bullets are flying through home walls and criminals openly control the streets. The reaction will result in far more harsh policing then the “activists” tried to solve.

It’s amazing how leftists are now openly the party of allowing MS-13 to rule the streets unopposed

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Luce]

It is not a problem at all. Tricky or otherwise. It’s only a problem because your bigger interest is inciting with criminals over law abiding citizens.

The leftist mindset, is that people who commit violent crimes do so because they are forced to by an unjust society. And therefore those who actually follow societies rules are the real criminals, while criminals who actually hurt people are just victims.

And this is why medical journals have to pathologies lawful police force as a public health crisis. The regime knows that their preferred reforms will lead to a lot more law-abiding people getting hurt by criminals, which will lead to democratic backlash. Therefore they need to remove democracy from the equation altogether.

I just want to be clear on one thing: You are not on our side, and we don't want guys like you on our side.

Holster-sniffing is a bad look.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I know very well.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I just want to be clear on one thing: You are not on our side, and we don't want guys like you on our side.

Holster-sniffing is a bad look.

I am not on the side of those who want to empower violent criminals over law abiding citizens and the police. You’re damn right I’m not on your side