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Philippines: army takes on Muslim separatists who want to form Islamic state

Rainman05

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Philippines, Muslim Rebels Forge Wealth-Sharing in Peace Accord - Bloomberg

The Philippines and Muslim rebels signed a wealth-sharing agreement yesterday after eight months of talks, bringing President Benigno Aquino closer to ending four decades of insurgency on resources-rich Mindanao island.
Muslims will get a 75 percent share of metals resources and an equal split on fossil fuels, Ghadzali Jaafar, the front’s vice chairman, said in a phone interview yesterday. “We are going into the meat of the final deal,” he said. The statement didn’t provide details on the agreement.
Ending one of Southeast Asia’s most entrenched conflicts could help bring investors to Mindanao and unlock mineral deposits worth an estimated $312 billion. The Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao had per capita gross domestic product of 26,004 pesos ($599) in 2011, about a fourth the national average of 103,366 pesos and the lowest among 17 regions, according to the National Statistical Coordination Board.

Philippines: army takes on Muslim separatists who want to form Islamic state | euronews, world news

2 news outlets for you guys. In chronological order.

There have been more clashes in the Philippines between the army and Muslim separatists.
More than 50 people have died in the violence and around 60,000 have fled their homes.

Ok.

So read the articles if you want more.

Basically, the philipines (I will butcher this name, but w/e) have had a silent civil war for decades now. I do mean decades. Why do I say it's a silent civil war? Because muslims account for only 5-10% of the population. You heard me right, 5-10%. It's a very brutal and ruthless religious minority who wants more and more than ever.
This is all proof that islam, in it's current form, is not a religion of peace as all those people kindly misinform you. It's the religion of gimme gimme gimme under threat of Jihad.

So the Philipino PM offered the heads of the separatist rebels a pretty decent deal. They get 75% of the profits from the mineral and oil income from the region that they made unfriendly for decades. Now this is a really great deal for the separatist leaders. It means that 90% of the population gets 25% of the income from those minerals and oil and they, 5-10% of the population gets 75%. And they don't have to pay a penny, it will be private investors and the Philipino govt that will do all the investing.

Now if you were talking to rational people who cared about the country, not about themselves, making a demand that 75% of all income from those resources be given to you seems a little dim. But not to them. Why? Because with islam it's all or nothing. There is no compromise. You either submit or you're crushed. And this is a very good example of this.

Now this happened a few months ago.
What happened since? Islam happened. They regrouped their forces and after a few months of ceasefire, people started shooting again.

I will bet you 100$ that the arab league funds the islamists in the Philipinos. Especially Saudi Arabia. If the Saudis wouldn't have their wealth from the ground they stand, from the oil under their feet, they'd be less than a banana republic. So they know how important it is for islam to have money right under it's feet. And 300bil $ is a lot of money to finance Jihad if another islamist nation whose fortune comes from the ground it sits on enters the frey.
 

Rainman05

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Oh, and they took hostages.

Shaky cease-fire hopes as MNLF holds out against government in Philippines | News | DW.DE | 14.09.2013

Shaky cease-fire hopes as MNLF holds out against government in Philippines
The vice president of the Philippines has headed to Zamboanga to discuss a truce with Muslim rebels. The standoff began on Monday when about 200 fighters stormed several coastal communities, taking residents hostage.

The government has battled MNLF rebels since 1971, a conflict that has claimed 150,000 lives. The MNLF claims that the government has broken promises over the establishment of an autonomous region for Muslims in the largely Catholic nation's Mindanao region.


Mindanao region is the one with the 300bil $ of minerals. It's not even the majority muslim area but it is the warzone that's why they can't have progress there and start developing the region. But the muslims want the money.
 

Goshin

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For some while now, there have been people asserting that in most any nation where the percentage of Muslims rises to a certain level, that problems start with the more radical among them... like trying to institute Sharia law, and/or violence aimed at separatism or overthrow, etc.

Most such assertions have been met with accusations of racism or other prejudicial views.


I've been a bit ambivalent about such assertions up to this point.... but it is starting to look like the evidence is mounting that there's some truth in that.


I hate to say that, but we've seen a lot of disturbing stuff along these lines in so many nations...
 

Ray410

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I believe that General BlackJack Pershing authored the seminal work on dealing with this problem in the Philippines.
 

Grant

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For some while now, there have been people asserting that in most any nation where the percentage of Muslims rises to a certain level, that problems start with the more radical among them... like trying to institute Sharia law, and/or violence aimed at separatism or overthrow, etc.

Most such assertions have been met with accusations of racism or other prejudicial views.


I've been a bit ambivalent about such assertions up to this point.... but it is starting to look like the evidence is mounting that there's some truth in that.


I hate to say that, but we've seen a lot of disturbing stuff along these lines in so many nations...

Many people have been intimidated and have become reluctant to state the obvious. Academic's warning on Muslims causes stir - National - theage.com.au
 

Rainman05

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Many people have been intimidated and have become reluctant to state the obvious. Academic's warning on Muslims causes stir - National - theage.com.au

I don't know how much trust I should put in someone called Raphael Israeli, he is surely jewish, and pro-israel and hence, has an agenda to defame muslims... but there is no need for an academic to say that when a dangerous minority reaches a certain number of people, things get crazy.
You can observe this already, if you're not a stunted fool, in Sweden, parts of England, Spain, Italy and germany where there are a lot of turks.
 

Grant

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I don't know how much trust I should put in someone called Raphael Israeli, he is surely jewish, and pro-israel and hence, has an agenda to defame muslims...

Got it. Jews lie and Muslims tell the truth.
but there is no need for an academic to say that when a dangerous minority reaches a certain number of people, things get crazy.
No reason? Have you done any research yourself? Have you checked out some of the countries which have growing Muslim populations and when their problems began?
You can observe this already, if you're not a stunted fool, in Sweden, parts of England, Spain, Italy and germany where there are a lot of turks.

Observe what?
 

Rainman05

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Got it. Jews lie and Muslims tell the truth.
No reason? Have you done any research yourself? Have you checked out some of the countries which have growing Muslim populations and when their problems began?


Observe what?

I didn't say that jews lie and that muslims tell the truth. Read again what I said:
I don't know how much trust I should put in someone called Raphael Israeli, he is surely jewish, and pro-israel and hence, has an agenda to defame muslims

If you can't get past the first sentence of my comment how do you expect to understand the rest of it?
 

Grant

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I didn't say that jews lie and that muslims tell the truth. Read again what I said: If you can't get past the first sentence of my comment how do you expect to understand the rest of it?

You said "I don't know how much trust I should put in someone called Raphael Israeli, he is surely jewish, and pro-israel and hence, has an agenda to defame muslims".

Jews have an agenda to defame Muslims?? Wherever did you get that idea? In fact Muslims have recently been murdering more Christians than Jews, largely because Jews have better prepared themselves against Islamic attacks.

Occasionally Muslims will attack Jews, Christians, atheists, Buddhists and, more frequently, other Muslims. You don't have to be Jewish to be aware of this.

What agenda do you believe Jews have against Muslims?
 

Lord Tammerlain

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For some while now, there have been people asserting that in most any nation where the percentage of Muslims rises to a certain level, that problems start with the more radical among them... like trying to institute Sharia law, and/or violence aimed at separatism or overthrow, etc.

Most such assertions have been met with accusations of racism or other prejudicial views.


I've been a bit ambivalent about such assertions up to this point.... but it is starting to look like the evidence is mounting that there's some truth in that.


I hate to say that, but we've seen a lot of disturbing stuff along these lines in so many nations...

Actually the region was a sultanate before the Spanish came to the Phillipenes

Islam first spread to the region during the 13th century through Arab traders from present-day Malaysia and Indonesia. Prior to this contact, the inhabitants of the area were primarily animists living in small autonomous communities.[2] The indigenous population was quickly converted and the first mosque in the Philippines was built in the mid 14th century in the town of Simunul.[2] The Philippine sultanates of Sulu and Maguindanao were subsequently in the 15th and 16th centuries, respectively. In the late 16th to early 17th centuries, the first contact with Spain occurred. By this time, Islam was well established in Mindanao and had started influencing groups as far north as present-day Manila on the island of Luzon.[2]

Upon the Spaniards' arrival to the Philippines, they were dismayed to find such a strong Muslim presence on the island, having just expelled the Moors from Spain after centuries of fighting. In fact, the name Moros (the Spanish word for "Moors") was given to the Muslim inhabitants by the Spanish.[2] Caesarea Caroli was the name given by Villalobos to the island of Mindanao when he reached the sea near it. This was named after the Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire (and I of Spain).

The region is home to most of the country's Muslim or Moro populations, composed of many ethnic groups such as the Maranao and the Tausug, the Banguingui (users of the vinta), as well as the collective group of indigenous tribes known as the Lumad.

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Lumads controlled an area which now covers 17 of Mindanao’s 24 provinces, but by the 1980 census, they constituted less than 6% of the population of Mindanao and Sulu. Heavy migration to Mindanao of Visayans, spurred by government-sponsored resettlement programmes, turned the indigenous Lumads and Moros into minorities.[3]
Mindanao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was 300 years ago a separate country, forced into becoming part of another country, and saw non muslim immigration to the region to reduce their demographic power. Islam did not grow there in the last 50 years, it was there before Christianity was there,. Also during the US Fillipino war, it was predominately the Moros who were killed if I recall correctly
 
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Glen Contrarian

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You said "I don't know how much trust I should put in someone called Raphael Israeli, he is surely jewish, and pro-israel and hence, has an agenda to defame muslims".

Jews have an agenda to defame Muslims?? Wherever did you get that idea? In fact Muslims have recently been murdering more Christians than Jews, largely because Jews have better prepared themselves against Islamic attacks.

Occasionally Muslims will attack Jews, Christians, atheists, Buddhists and, more frequently, other Muslims. You don't have to be Jewish to be aware of this.

What agenda do you believe Jews have against Muslims?

Actually, if you'll look throughout the past twenty centuries, Jews have been MUCH safer living among Muslims than among 'Christians' and atheists. Sure, they're often treated as second-class citizens, but what few massacres there were, were much smaller and less frequent than in Europe.
 

Rainman05

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You said "I don't know how much trust I should put in someone called Raphael Israeli, he is surely jewish, and pro-israel and hence, has an agenda to defame muslims".

Jews have an agenda to defame Muslims?? Wherever did you get that idea? In fact Muslims have recently been murdering more Christians than Jews, largely because Jews have better prepared themselves against Islamic attacks.

Occasionally Muslims will attack Jews, Christians, atheists, Buddhists and, more frequently, other Muslims. You don't have to be Jewish to be aware of this.

What agenda do you believe Jews have against Muslims?

Read it again. I'll highlight the things that you need to pay attention to because if you can't understand the first phrase then why should I bother explaining it further.
I don't know how much trust I should put in someone called Raphael Israeli, he is surely jewish, and pro-israel and hence, has an agenda to defame muslims

Being jewish is not the only trait I assume this man has. Zionism is there too.

Again. I'm not saying he is wrong, I am just saying that you shouldn't believe what he is saying because he may be biased. I am sure there are unbiased individuals who came to the same conclusions, and if not, you have a brain, you know if you're biased, you make your own conclusions.
 

Glen Contrarian

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When you say "our" general, what country are you talking about?

The United States of America. See here:

"I want no prisoners. I wish you to kill and burn, the more you kill and burn the better it will please me. I want all persons killed who are capable of bearing arms in actual hostilities against the United States.” General Jacob H. Smith said.
Since it was a popular belief among the Americans serving in the Philippines that native males were born with bolos in their hands, Major Littleton "Tony" Waller asked "I would like to know the limit of age to respect, sir?."
"Ten years," General Jacob H. Smith said.
"Persons of ten years and older are those designated as being capable of bearing arms?" "Yes." General Jacob H. Smith confirmed his instructions a second time.[8]


And then there's four more quotes:

- "I personally strung up thirty-five Filipinos without trial, so what was all the fuss over Waller's "dispatching" a few "treacherous savages"? If there had been more Smiths and Wallers, the war would have been over long ago. Impromptu domestic hanging might also hasten the end of the war. For starters, all Americans who had recently petitioned Congress to sue for peace in the Philippines should be dragged out of their homes and lynched."--Colonel Frederick Funston at a banquet in Chicago. [9]

- Major Edwin Glenn did not deny that he made forty-seven prisoners kneel and "repent of their sins" before ordering them bayoneted and clubbed to death.[10]

"Obtain information from natives no matter what measures have to be adopted."--General Adna Chaffee [11]

"It may be necessary to kill half the Filipinos in order that the remaining half of the population may be advanced to a higher plane of life than their present semi-barbarous state affords."--General William Shafter
 

Grant

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Actually, if you'll look throughout the past twenty centuries, Jews have been MUCH safer living among Muslims than among 'Christians' and atheists. Sure, they're often treated as second-class citizens, but what few massacres there were, were much smaller and less frequent than in Europe.

Muslims have not been around for the past 20 centuries and Jews were in the Middle East first.

Of course the Europeans have committed incredible atrocities and prejudices against the Jewish people, and still do, but the discussion is what's been going on in the modern era. The Muslim, in many areas of the world, have become to non-Muslims what Nazis were to the Jews.
 
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Grant

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Read it again. I'll highlight the things that you need to pay attention to because if you can't understand the first phrase then why should I bother explaining it further. Being jewish is not the only trait I assume this man has. Zionism is there too.
You have to assume motives about him? Nowhere was Zionism mentioned but, even if it were, why can he not be trusted? It seems you have to ascribe motives to the man in order to justify your prejudices.

Again. I'm not saying he is wrong, I am just saying that you shouldn't believe what he is saying because he may be biased. I am sure there are unbiased individuals who came to the same conclusions, and if not, you have a brain, you know if you're biased, you make your own conclusions.

You shouldn't believe what someone says because they may be biased? Jews must therefore be open to suspicion on anything they might say regarding terrorism or the Middle East. Anyone else on your list of questionable races?
 

Rainman05

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You have to assume motives about him? Nowhere was Zionism mentioned but, even if it were, why can he not be trusted? It seems you have to ascribe motives to the man in order to justify your prejudices.

You shouldn't believe what someone says because they may be biased? Jews must therefore be open to suspicion on anything they might say regarding terrorism or the Middle East. Anyone else on your list of questionable races?

Yes, I assume motives about him because that's what I do. Trust is earned, not granted, and since this is the first time I heard of some nobody from some random institution, I have every right, nay, I should be wary of what he says. And yes, I deduced he could have a anti-arabic agenda. It's not uncommon among zionists and zionism is not uncommon among jews and he has the most jewish sounding name, he's named Israel.

But just because I don't trust him, doesn't mean that what he says isn't true. If his statements mirror my own conclusions, then he is correct. But I wouldn't call upon him and his statements to add weight to my argument. Why? Because he could very well be a biased, anti-arabic individual and the likelyhood of that is reasonably high.
 

Grant

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Yes, I assume motives about him because that's what I do.Trust is earned, not granted, and since this is the first time I heard of some nobody from some random institution, I have every right, nay, I should be wary of what he says. And yes, I deduced he could have a anti-arabic agenda. It's not uncommon among zionists and zionism is not uncommon among jews and he has the most jewish sounding name, he's named Israel. But just because I don't trust him, doesn't mean that what he says isn't true. If his statements mirror my own conclusions, then he is correct. But I wouldn't call upon him and his statements to add weight to my argument. Why? Because he could very well be a biased, anti-arabic individual and the likelyhood of that is reasonably high.

An anti-arabic agenda, huh? Do you even know what that means?

I have no time for disgusting people like you.
 

Rainman05

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An anti-arabic agenda, huh? Do you even know what that means?

I have no time for disgusting people like you.

I'm not the one with the anti-arabic agenda. the guy you linked to is.
 

VanceMack

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I didn't say that jews lie and that muslims tell the truth. Read again what I said:

If you can't get past the first sentence of my comment how do you expect to understand the rest of it?
Wow. Thats mighty big(oted) of you. He MUST be a Jew with a name like that and he MUST therefore have a biased pro israeli anti-muslim slant.

He...MUST. After all...his name....
 

Rainman05

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Wow. Thats mighty big(oted) of you. He MUST be a Jew with a name like that and he MUST therefore have a biased pro israeli anti-muslim slant.

He...MUST. After all...his name....
Same reply to you too.
If you can't get past the first sentence of my comment how do you expect to understand the rest of it?
 

VanceMack

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Same reply to you too.
When you start your comment exposing yourself as a bigot, you cant really be shocked people dont get to the rest of it.

I actually read your comment and got the "but" part. I interpreted your comment regarding the muslim 'problems' in those other countries. Again...you dont do yourself any favors by jumping out in your introduction and loudly proclaiming "look at me! Im a bigot!"
 

Rainman05

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When you start your comment exposing yourself as a bigot, you cant really be shocked people dont get to the rest of it.

I actually read your comment and got the "but" part. I interpreted your comment regarding the muslim 'problems' in those other countries. Again...you dont do yourself any favors by jumping out in your introduction and loudly proclaiming "look at me! Im a bigot!"

If you wish to claim any observation based on facts as bigotry, then be my guest. It's safer for you to adopt this attitude then.
Hear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil.jpg
 
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